Has RB secrets been revealed?
Discussion
With the Monaco crashes and floor reveals, will this be the turning point to close the grid? I'm sure every team boffin has spent a few hours deciphering the aero complexities and associations to understand how everything is working. Surely this is the best chance they're going to get!?
Everyone has seen the underfloor in plenty of detail now so a big chunk of the secret is revealed, but there remain a few problems:
1) The images captured don't show the full detail of the construction. It's highly likely that the floor as viewed has some crucial flex under certain aero forces that will be due to the thickness and layering of the composites. The floor is not supposed to flex, but the regs require only that it passes certain tests - I am sure it will flex under certain conditions enough to moderate the ground effect in some very useful ways - it's all about the final 1% of how it works in real life, not the 'obvious' 99%.
2) Allowing for the above, it is likely that given enough time a team trying to copy the geometry of the design that is now known would start to understand the finer aspects of how/why it works and how to get the best out of the form, including the nuances of flexibility - but the time required to understand that is limited, budget is limited, CFD time is limited - the other top teams probably have next to no spare resource to make an effective effort to understand it this season and it would take a big chunk out of next seasons resources to get to grips with it enough to compete 1 on 1 for the season after that! Everything is a slow burn with the new cost caps...
3) On the upside, it's always possible a bright spark could see the RBR design and realise there is something un-exploited about it's potential, but given the talent at RBR, who have all spent years working under Newey, I would say it's fairly unlikely there is something any other team could improve upon rapidly that they haven't already looked into themselves and discounted for a good reason.
I think the 2025 season is the first we will have any real likelihood of seeing a genuine title competitor for RBR to worry about. Either as a result of a well understood copy of the RBR design or as a well evolved alternative design - either way the problem is the cost caps make any effort to 'catch up' very long winded.
However, I am certain there will be obvious elements of the RBR design that can be applied to other cars and will at least bring things a little closer as soon as next season. It's definitely going to help the other teams understanding - but only to a limited extent, initially at least.
RBR have this mini era of the sport nailed imo.The 2026 PU regs are more likely to shake up the order than efforts to copy/catch up RBR car design are.
1) The images captured don't show the full detail of the construction. It's highly likely that the floor as viewed has some crucial flex under certain aero forces that will be due to the thickness and layering of the composites. The floor is not supposed to flex, but the regs require only that it passes certain tests - I am sure it will flex under certain conditions enough to moderate the ground effect in some very useful ways - it's all about the final 1% of how it works in real life, not the 'obvious' 99%.
2) Allowing for the above, it is likely that given enough time a team trying to copy the geometry of the design that is now known would start to understand the finer aspects of how/why it works and how to get the best out of the form, including the nuances of flexibility - but the time required to understand that is limited, budget is limited, CFD time is limited - the other top teams probably have next to no spare resource to make an effective effort to understand it this season and it would take a big chunk out of next seasons resources to get to grips with it enough to compete 1 on 1 for the season after that! Everything is a slow burn with the new cost caps...
3) On the upside, it's always possible a bright spark could see the RBR design and realise there is something un-exploited about it's potential, but given the talent at RBR, who have all spent years working under Newey, I would say it's fairly unlikely there is something any other team could improve upon rapidly that they haven't already looked into themselves and discounted for a good reason.
I think the 2025 season is the first we will have any real likelihood of seeing a genuine title competitor for RBR to worry about. Either as a result of a well understood copy of the RBR design or as a well evolved alternative design - either way the problem is the cost caps make any effort to 'catch up' very long winded.
However, I am certain there will be obvious elements of the RBR design that can be applied to other cars and will at least bring things a little closer as soon as next season. It's definitely going to help the other teams understanding - but only to a limited extent, initially at least.
RBR have this mini era of the sport nailed imo.The 2026 PU regs are more likely to shake up the order than efforts to copy/catch up RBR car design are.
I am not an engineer, but I imagine that the most difficult part is not replicating the RB floor, but to get the right amount of air directed in the right way under the floor, so that it can work effectively.
I very much doubt that putting the same floor under the Williams would bring it among the top 3.
I very much doubt that putting the same floor under the Williams would bring it among the top 3.
AlexIT said:
I very much doubt that putting the same floor under the Williams would bring it among the top 3.
I don't think anyone is expecting that at all. Understanding the concept and utilising the design philosophy, not an outright copy.RB have copied a component of the Williams floor this season already. They all do it, just incorporate features in their own designs.
In comparison to the Merc floor when that was lifted, the RB floor certainly appears more complex, the first thing I noticed was that the plank on the RB was far more discoloured from ground contact (heat marks), so it would suggest that the car is running far lower for more of the time, though it obviously passes all the relevant static tests, unless it was a part that had been run for many more laps than the one fitted to the Merc.
mk1coopers said:
In comparison to the Merc floor when that was lifted, the RB floor certainly appears more complex, the first thing I noticed was that the plank on the RB was far more discoloured from ground contact (heat marks), so it would suggest that the car is running far lower for more of the time, though it obviously passes all the relevant static tests, unless it was a part that had been run for many more laps than the one fitted to the Merc.
There was some interesting discussion on the F1 technical forum about what appear to be steps in the RB19 floor. Users there pointed out that it looks similar to the steps used on boat hulls to cut drag and reduce porpoising. You'd need to be an aerodynamicist to know whether that's really applicable to a car floor though.
mk1coopers said:
In comparison to the Merc floor when that was lifted, the RB floor certainly appears more complex, the first thing I noticed was that the plank on the RB was far more discoloured from ground contact (heat marks), so it would suggest that the car is running far lower for more of the time, though it obviously passes all the relevant static tests, unless it was a part that had been run for many more laps than the one fitted to the Merc.
I'm sure it has been reported before that the real advantage RB have is in their suspension and the way the car avoids squat, dive or roll. This allows them to run the car closer to the ground than other teams which then improves the performance of the floor. So it makes sense that this would result in more wear of the plank.ralphrj said:
mk1coopers said:
In comparison to the Merc floor when that was lifted, the RB floor certainly appears more complex, the first thing I noticed was that the plank on the RB was far more discoloured from ground contact (heat marks), so it would suggest that the car is running far lower for more of the time, though it obviously passes all the relevant static tests, unless it was a part that had been run for many more laps than the one fitted to the Merc.
I'm sure it has been reported before that the real advantage RB have is in their suspension and the way the car avoids squat, dive or roll. This allows them to run the car closer to the ground than other teams which then improves the performance of the floor. So it makes sense that this would result in more wear of the plank.It's expected that stopped cars will get winched high in Monaco.
I reckon it's an elaborate ploy to distract the other teams, create a one off wild floor, fit it to Checo's car, do a few laps and stop, car gets lifted high for all to see and Newey sits back and watches the other teams tie themselves in knots trying to understand it
I reckon it's an elaborate ploy to distract the other teams, create a one off wild floor, fit it to Checo's car, do a few laps and stop, car gets lifted high for all to see and Newey sits back and watches the other teams tie themselves in knots trying to understand it
Ankh87 said:
It's like copying someone in an exam. You can only copy what you can see but doesn't mean it's right or could only be part of the answer.
There’s a good interview with James Vowles on Sky Sports at the moment. He makes the point that the speed of development is so mad in F1, that what’s on today’s car is already three months behind the curve. So while they can learn a lot from the pictures, the best thing to do is to keep going down the path of developing what they have, rather than trying to copy a radically different design. There’s a lot of complex moving parts to the aero package concept - not that aero bits are supposed to move, of course - so an RB floor on another car will likely make it a lot slower.
As others have mentioned, we know that Newey’s recent focus has been on the suspension, which is a more likely area to find something special. The recent Mercedes upgrades contained a racially different front wishbone setup, to the point that many people wondered how they managed to do it without needing to homologate a new chassis. I think the suggestion is that the suspension struts on the RB are aero parts in their own right, but acting in the opposite direction to most of the other aero in the car, and as such keeping the ride height optimised through a much bigger speed range.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff