fuel pump fails in current production

[a110au]

edit: alpine finally initiated a pump recall campaign and this is progressing through all older VINs the last pages of this topic deal with news and experience with this recall

———————

so for those not following fb group there have been two 2022 model fuel pump failures I think in the last week! screwing UK owners who were on long eu road trips, and no parts available.

As an owners community there should be more fury. there is no excuse for this. The company has had years to get ahead of this issue and stop it happening on existing cars and new production instead they keep playing car cosplay with limited editions at silly prices.

it totally screws ones confidence in the car, it did for me, and now hearing current production probably has the same issue I no longer feel safe with my replacement oem pump..

Edited by a110au on Wednesday 20th March 21:50

[Whaleblue]

That’s frustrating. Any particular failure modes noted? High ambient temperatures? After long/hard runs?

[Rob_RCF]

I would like more info as well. I'm a new user so no context.

Which fuel pump are we talking about here, low pressure, ie the one in the fuel tank? There's no reason that should be an unreliable part.

Is this a common issue? Or are we just talking about 2 isolated incidents that just happened to occur in the same week?

Is it possible the pumps are running dry and then overheating aka fuel starvation?

[LE62NDE]

Whilst it doesn't solve the problem, the final paragraph of this article may be of interest to some: there have been delays in supplying a replacement pump in the past: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/jun/08/merc...

In case the link doesn't work outside the UK, it reads: 'If a car is less than two years old, or under warranty, the manufacturer has a legal responsibility to replace it with a similar spec if a parts shortage prevents a major repair'.

[worldwidewebs]

Rob_RCF said:

Is this a common issue? Or are we just talking about 2 isolated incidents that just happened to occur in the same week?

Very common. Manchester Alpine replaced 20 last year alone.

Rob_RCF said:

Is it possible the pumps are running dry and then overheating aka fuel starvation?

No. Happened to me and I had plenty of fuel.

[Rob_RCF]

worldwidewebs said:

Very common. Manchester Alpine replaced 20 last year alone.

No. Happened to me and I had plenty of fuel.

20 in a year! In one dealership! That would be concerning for any car, let alone something low volume...

I have a GT on order and this does make me a bit nervous, especially coming from a Lexus where reliability isn't really something I spend time worrying about.

[a110au]

a fuel pump (it is the in-tank one, not the engine) fail is - or should be - as serious as a suspension arm breaking or a transmission locking up it is extremely dangerous if it happens at a place where the car can be stranded, immobile, and hit from behind. The only reason Alpine have got away with just mopping up fails as they happen is because they are a niche brand that rely on owners not kicking up a fuss. But behind the brand is Renault, and they absolutely should understand this is not acceptable.

[a110au]

the new one.
6 hours ago

[xondat]

Looking back, it seems the part number changed around October 2022, so will be interesting to see if any after that approx. date still fail.

Edited by xondat on Friday 9th June 06:22

[worldwidewebs]

xondat said:

Looking back, it seems the part number changed around October 2022, so will be interesting to see if any after that approx. date still fail.

Edited by xondat on Friday 9th June 06:22

Yes, mine failed end of October and although they had 3 in stock they weren't allowed to fit them as there was a new part number on its way. My personal feeling is that any cars built from October 2022 onwards will be fine

[Hoofty]

a110au said:

a fuel pump (it is the in-tank one, not the engine) fail is - or should be - as serious as a suspension arm breaking or a transmission locking up it is extremely dangerous if it happens at a place where the car can be stranded, immobile, and hit from behind. The only reason Alpine have got away with just mopping up fails as they happen is because they are a niche brand that rely on owners not kicking up a fuss. But behind the brand is Renault, and they absolutely should understand this is not acceptable.

This is in no way to detract from the distress caused by this failure (and I am familiar with it, having had a pump go myself), but there will be reasons why it would not have been treated as a recall. Recalls can be ruinously expensive, purely from a business pov. They tend to be implemented only when not acting would put a company in legal trouble. At all other times it is in a company's financial interests to 'manage' situations quietly.

The 'worst' level failures on any car relate to either a) immediate loss of directional control and b) mal/non-function of safety systems. Category a) would include that suspension arm breaking, that transmission lock up, possibly even that 'unintended acceleration' problem that Toyota had. It will not - perhaps against expectation - include loss of motive power. When this happens, yes, you can be in an unfortunate location, but when it does, you still have directional control of the vehicle - you can steer and brake for as long as your momentum allows. How useful that is, given the precise situation you find yourself in, can be very cold comfort indeed - but it does not directly lead to an incident the moment it occurs.

This then, I imagine, is the category below. Default position for this - and I am reasonably confident Renault would act exactly the same (they probably set the standards and processes Alpine are working to) - is to Fix on Failure. If incidence increases, it'll probably be escalated to Fix at Next Service. If any occurances of actual harm become involved, that would likely tip things towards active recall. Dissatisfaction is bad, but actual harm becomes a legal issue.

Don't get me wrong - the emotional response is entirely credible, based on the potential severity of any given failure situation (as well as the inconvenience). I can well imagine there are a few people in the company losing sleep over this, and having to deal with seemingly cold data about failure rates, probabilities and cost of countermeasures. They will however, be following the due processess of the company.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'd love the issue to be fixed as robustly as possible. I can just try to propose, with a bit of industry knowledge, why it might not seem to be being addressed in the manner that some of us might hope.

Cheers,
Nick

[Indischrot]

It is indeed frustrating. Mine left me stranded in mid May on my way to the 2nd annual service to Alpine Katowice (Poland). Dropped a gear when overtaking a truck, engine bogged down and the following message appeared "Injection failure" or "Injection malfunction" or something among these lines. The car began to lose power and slow down. I manage to coast another 100 meters or so to the hard shoulder and the engine went dead. Waited for about 1 min, tried to start the engine again. The engine did not start and the following message appeared "Engine failure hazard". The starter was turning but the engine did not start. That pointed to probably 2 possible causes - no supply of fuel or no spark. Called flatbed truck through my insurance company and after its arrival swore a lot while trying to load the car on the truck. The gearbox stayed in P (parking) and refused to shift to N (neutral). When the brake pedal was depressed and "Engine start" button pressed, the starter was turning and while it was turning it was possible to shift to N. However, that lasted only 3-4 seconds and then the gearbox shifted back to P. Somehow pushed it up and got it home. After 2 weeks of nerves sapping back and forth with Alpine Assistance in Poland finally managed to get the car picked up from home and transported to the dealer. Dealer diagnosis - broken low pressure fuel pump. In stock neither at a dealer nor at manufacturer... The car was made in 2021, covered around 13k km and broke down on its 2nd anniversary. It is disappointing that Alpine/Renault are aware of the issue but do not try to rectify it. I understand the associated costs of the possible recall but at least have adequate stock of non faulty pumps! I was also lucky that it did not happen on the UK's M25 or a German autobahn. Don't want to even imagine possible consequences when the engine just splutters and dies on you and you have 5-8 sec to find a safe spot to coast to...

[Olivera]

Hoofty said:

Stuff

I think your 'non recall' position would be more cogent if failures were rare and unpredictable. However failures appear to be quite widespread and may at some point result in a (predictable) accident. Someone on this forum mentioned a while back of a female A110 driver that ended up broken down in the outside lane of a motorway/dual carriageway, fortunately it did not result in an accident.

[Colin P]

If it helps anyone, with suggestion that October brought about a new fuel pump, I think you can find your Manufacture date on the last page of the ICE handbook.

The ID sticker is unhelpful stating Model Year 15, but the Key Code sticker is date marked. Mine is 48.22, hopefully meaning it is Dec 22 and has the alternate FP.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

worldwidewebs said:

Rob_RCF said:

Is this a common issue? Or are we just talking about 2 isolated incidents that just happened to occur in the same week?

Very common. Manchester Alpine replaced 20 last year alone.

Rob_RCF said:

Is it possible the pumps are running dry and then overheating aka fuel starvation?

No. Happened to me and I had plenty of fuel.

I've been strangely intrigued by the woes of this fabulous looking car.

What I really don't understand is fuel pumps have been around for donkey's years, and rarely fail in mainstream cars.

Why is the Alpine's so different?

[bcr5784]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

I've been strangely intrigued by the woes of this fabulous looking car.

What I really don't understand is fuel pumps have been around for donkey's years, and rarely fail in mainstream cars.

Why is the Alpine's so different?

It isn't - google Toyota fuel pump failure. 1.5 million cars are affected in the US

[a110au]

the toyota problem was a huge pump supplier that used plastic that swelled in certain fuels for a long production batch and Toyota dealt with it
because it is a safety issue.

Alpine have some other issue and it isnt clear what it is and they are not revealing what they know and what they do say does not add up. And it has been dragging on since 2018..

[bcr5784]

a110au said:

the toyota problem was a huge pump supplier that used plastic that swelled in certain fuels for a long production batch and Toyota dealt with it
because it is a safety issue.

Alpine have some other issue and it isnt clear what it is and they are not revealing what they know and what they do say does not add up. And it has been dragging on since 2018..

I thought it was an impeller clearance (from the body of the pump) issue.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

bcr5784 said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

I've been strangely intrigued by the woes of this fabulous looking car.

What I really don't understand is fuel pumps have been around for donkey's years, and rarely fail in mainstream cars.

Why is the Alpine's so different?

It isn't - google Toyota fuel pump failure. 1.5 million cars are affected in the US

Ooh, that's a bugger!

Even so, millions of Renaults seem to run forever. Is the Alpine pump unique to the car? (Rather than from the Renault parts bin)

[Olivera]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Even so, millions of Renaults seem to run forever. Is the Alpine pump unique to the car? (Rather than from the Renault parts bin)

Pure speculation, but could the A110 application of the fuel pump be the issue? E.g. the mid engined position causes the pump/tank to run hotter effecting premature failure? This would tally with several revisions of the pump not fixing the issue.