Frightening handling!!!
Discussion
Hey folks
I've not long had a 2015 MX-5 convertible. I was really looking forward to throwing such a light little car around, but it's too frightening to try it!!
Symptoms:
1. Mega sensitive steering, turns in like crazy!! Even look at the radio and I feel like I'll hit the curb, exhausting keeping it straight on the motorway!
2. When you do try and throw it about, the back end seems to wallow into the turn later, upsetting the front, v v difficult to control!
3. Slight change in direction when changing gear, which I didn't expect from a rear wheel drive car.
I've had TVRs etc in the past and they were super simple to drive compared to this.
This surely isn't how it should drive......any ideas please.....
I've not long had a 2015 MX-5 convertible. I was really looking forward to throwing such a light little car around, but it's too frightening to try it!!
Symptoms:
1. Mega sensitive steering, turns in like crazy!! Even look at the radio and I feel like I'll hit the curb, exhausting keeping it straight on the motorway!
2. When you do try and throw it about, the back end seems to wallow into the turn later, upsetting the front, v v difficult to control!
3. Slight change in direction when changing gear, which I didn't expect from a rear wheel drive car.
I've had TVRs etc in the past and they were super simple to drive compared to this.
This surely isn't how it should drive......any ideas please.....
Handling is pretty quick and direct and can be pretty tiring on long motorway journeys, it's not really what it's made for though - it has a pretty short wheel base and quick steering so it's always going to be a bit twitchy feeling.
As standard there is a lot of understeer, so going into corners hot and trying to get the back out a bit generally leads to snap oversteer which is very challenging to correct
The NC version is probably the worst handling on the limit as standard as it sits quite high, softly sprung and has quite a lot of grip (see https://youtu.be/6bhl_lzfRT8 for example of how it handles with a pro drifter) but imo those characteristics make it pretty good for English country roads.
Changing direction when changing gear - are you sure you aren't moving the wheel? There is very little dead zone so slight input on wheel goes to the front wheels. Check if alignment is out?
I've driven MK2 and 3 and they felt pretty similar to me (MK2 was noticeably more flexy and rattly - really wouldn't want to crash in one) - heard the MK4 is an improvement.
As standard there is a lot of understeer, so going into corners hot and trying to get the back out a bit generally leads to snap oversteer which is very challenging to correct
The NC version is probably the worst handling on the limit as standard as it sits quite high, softly sprung and has quite a lot of grip (see https://youtu.be/6bhl_lzfRT8 for example of how it handles with a pro drifter) but imo those characteristics make it pretty good for English country roads.
Changing direction when changing gear - are you sure you aren't moving the wheel? There is very little dead zone so slight input on wheel goes to the front wheels. Check if alignment is out?
I've driven MK2 and 3 and they felt pretty similar to me (MK2 was noticeably more flexy and rattly - really wouldn't want to crash in one) - heard the MK4 is an improvement.
Thanks for your prompt replies!!
I've just found an Evo review of my car online, and it describes quite accurately what mine does, I'm just shocked!
Do you know if there are there any upgrades to the suspension that are recommended to make it more like a nippy roller skate?!!!!
If it really is supposed to be like this I'll need to sell it, there's little point in having a sports car if it's almost impossible to drive safely. Sad, because I love everything else about it!
I've just found an Evo review of my car online, and it describes quite accurately what mine does, I'm just shocked!
Do you know if there are there any upgrades to the suspension that are recommended to make it more like a nippy roller skate?!!!!
If it really is supposed to be like this I'll need to sell it, there's little point in having a sports car if it's almost impossible to drive safely. Sad, because I love everything else about it!
You can get coil overs and alignment done to make it stiffer and sharper but that will make it more twitchy for when you are fiddling with the radio, but more predictable when it does break loose.
Tyres on it could be rubbish too.
Nothings going to change it being a short wheel base, mid front engine, rear wheel drive car - twitchy and responsive but unforgiving at the limit is what you get (but they've got so much grip I can't see you reaching that limit in the dry unless you are really flinging it about deliberately to try to unstick it)
Also if you make it stiffer you'll start to make it worse at what it's actually good for - top down driving around English country lanes where you can't drive it at 10/10s, stiffer means it'll get thrown off course by camber changes and bumps.
Tyres on it could be rubbish too.
Nothings going to change it being a short wheel base, mid front engine, rear wheel drive car - twitchy and responsive but unforgiving at the limit is what you get (but they've got so much grip I can't see you reaching that limit in the dry unless you are really flinging it about deliberately to try to unstick it)
Also if you make it stiffer you'll start to make it worse at what it's actually good for - top down driving around English country lanes where you can't drive it at 10/10s, stiffer means it'll get thrown off course by camber changes and bumps.
Edited by Bryanwww on Monday 29th May 16:19
Thanks again.
It's going into Mazda next week for a service so I might ask them to assess if it's "normal".
I really don't want it to be super stiff and uncomfortable, but my family 1.0 VW Up has less roll and drives better!!! I DO want to feel vaguely confident putting it into a corner, and I'm not, I'm petrified!!!
I'm in Bristol if anyone can recommend a garage?
Cheers
It's going into Mazda next week for a service so I might ask them to assess if it's "normal".
I really don't want it to be super stiff and uncomfortable, but my family 1.0 VW Up has less roll and drives better!!! I DO want to feel vaguely confident putting it into a corner, and I'm not, I'm petrified!!!
I'm in Bristol if anyone can recommend a garage?
Cheers
If yours has more roll than an Up there is definitely something wrong! They are soft for a sports car and snappy on the limit but they handle about 1000% better than any basic hatchback.
Going from my mx5 mk3 to driving rental Clio's and polos was always a big adjustment getting used to just how vague the steering was in the rental cars and how much they would understeer even at slow speeds around roundabouts the mx5 would've taken with my foot flat to the floor.
You can get an idea of the alignment is out of whack on a straight flat road, just let go of the steering a bit and see if it tracks straight. Also try a few hard emergency brakes (with no cars anywhere behind you) and see if it brakes in a straight line - start slow before you start going for 60-0s.
And tyres! Make sure they are at least matched on either side.
Going from my mx5 mk3 to driving rental Clio's and polos was always a big adjustment getting used to just how vague the steering was in the rental cars and how much they would understeer even at slow speeds around roundabouts the mx5 would've taken with my foot flat to the floor.
You can get an idea of the alignment is out of whack on a straight flat road, just let go of the steering a bit and see if it tracks straight. Also try a few hard emergency brakes (with no cars anywhere behind you) and see if it brakes in a straight line - start slow before you start going for 60-0s.
And tyres! Make sure they are at least matched on either side.
Edited by Bryanwww on Monday 29th May 17:26
Edited by Bryanwww on Monday 29th May 17:27
This sounds like my 2005 NC when I first had it. Tyres looked good, pressures ok but the handling felt dangerous and so disappointing.
The tyres were a mix of Pirelli and a make I had not heard of before but all with good tread.
Changed all 4 for Kumho ecsta-PS71 215/45 17 and the difference was incredible. Instantly the handling was transformed
The tyres were a mix of Pirelli and a make I had not heard of before but all with good tread.
Changed all 4 for Kumho ecsta-PS71 215/45 17 and the difference was incredible. Instantly the handling was transformed
Make sure pressures are at 29psi all round. When I picked mine up it was 38psi, and it genuinely felt awful to drive, super twitchy and felt like I was going to crash it if stopped concentrating for a second. At 29 it's perfect.
Could be loads of things, alignment is probably out as mentioned a few time already.
Also I've had budgets rears and old mismatched fronts. Changed to eagle f1s all round and it's dramatically better now. The car seems to be extremely sensitive to every variable, and if something isn't perfect it doesn't drive well.
Could be loads of things, alignment is probably out as mentioned a few time already.
Also I've had budgets rears and old mismatched fronts. Changed to eagle f1s all round and it's dramatically better now. The car seems to be extremely sensitive to every variable, and if something isn't perfect it doesn't drive well.
I was going to say Make sure you have 4 good tyres, you don’t need Michelin PS4’s super duper pilot all singing things, but a good brand with a performance orientated tyre…..Uniroyal, Toyo, Yoko, Khum, Dunlop, Avon…..you get them idea. Preferable would be all 4 the same, but at least make sure across an axle they are the same. I also mean that they are less than 4 years old. Often these cars are 2nd cars and do little mileage, so a tyre can be legal with good tread depth but 4-6Years old…….too hard and dangerous so change them.
29psi is often recommended. I have no experience of a NC, only an NA and NB and i run mine a bit lower.
Full alignment, but discuss with the garage honestly how you will drive it and how you want it to react. Too many ask for “fast road” or “track” set up, which tells them nothing……Do you like to carry a lot of corner speed, or perhaps like to be slow in and fast out …….it is the weight transfer and your style of driving that will help them set it up for you. I suspect you have Toe out and too little Castor in your front set up, both are often done by owners to make the steering more direct and responsive.
29psi is often recommended. I have no experience of a NC, only an NA and NB and i run mine a bit lower.
Full alignment, but discuss with the garage honestly how you will drive it and how you want it to react. Too many ask for “fast road” or “track” set up, which tells them nothing……Do you like to carry a lot of corner speed, or perhaps like to be slow in and fast out …….it is the weight transfer and your style of driving that will help them set it up for you. I suspect you have Toe out and too little Castor in your front set up, both are often done by owners to make the steering more direct and responsive.
FWIW, i bought an NC after coming from the world of kit cars; took it on tour to the Alps a week after buying it - and hated the handling.
Had zero confidence that the thing would go round a corner and 'stikc', felt wallowy, and in handling terms for a sportscar left me underwhelmed.
Fast forward to now: too it to a mx5 specialist in suffolk who whilst i was there was good enough to pop it on the ramps and take a look before giving some fair advice and options.
turned out 3 of the wheels were out of alignment, and one of the susp arms had a bit of play in it, tyres were getting a bit worn in weird places due to the poor set up.
lowered springs on orig shocks, new uniroyals, properly aligned with a bit of extra toe as per my request for 'fast road'.
what a difference! (other opton suggested but not pushed by the gge was coilovers, but gge reckoned for most that was overkill)
now handles like a sportscar should.
Only thing I may look to change is caister to try to get the steering heavier for a bit more 'feel'.
Its actually a pleasure to drive now!
Had zero confidence that the thing would go round a corner and 'stikc', felt wallowy, and in handling terms for a sportscar left me underwhelmed.
Fast forward to now: too it to a mx5 specialist in suffolk who whilst i was there was good enough to pop it on the ramps and take a look before giving some fair advice and options.
turned out 3 of the wheels were out of alignment, and one of the susp arms had a bit of play in it, tyres were getting a bit worn in weird places due to the poor set up.
lowered springs on orig shocks, new uniroyals, properly aligned with a bit of extra toe as per my request for 'fast road'.
what a difference! (other opton suggested but not pushed by the gge was coilovers, but gge reckoned for most that was overkill)
now handles like a sportscar should.
Only thing I may look to change is caister to try to get the steering heavier for a bit more 'feel'.
Its actually a pleasure to drive now!
Flylight said:
Wow, that’s fascinating, thanks for sharing that!!
I’m no suspension setup guru, but are all cars as sensitive to minor issues as this? ????
Most normal cars are pretty soft and vague at the best of times so you wouldn't notice it as easily. Generally the more direct, twitchy, sporty etc car is the more it'll be noticeable. I’m no suspension setup guru, but are all cars as sensitive to minor issues as this? ????
Misalignment on a formula 1 car doing 200mph with mm precision Vs the same amount of misalignment on a 1.3 litre golf is gonna be a big difference in how noticeable it is
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