Honda Returns. Again.

[Puddenchucker]

Honda is to return as a 'formal' enginine supplier to Aston Martin in 2026.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/65682563

It's like they've never been away.

[Piginapoke]

One OEM supplying engines to another OEM is such an odd look. How does Honda always screw this up?

[dobly]

Let’s see what happens - Honda usually get there in the end, even if it not in year 1 of the plan.

[IanUAE]

I wonder if Aston Martin will stop using Merc engines in their new road cars and switch to rebadged Honda / Acura engines as part of the deal?

[Teddy Lop]

IanUAE said:

I wonder if Aston Martin will stop using Merc engines in their new road cars and switch to rebadged Honda / Acura engines as part of the deal?

More chance of the stroll machine moving on and Aston F1 Martin being no more. Its a marketing/stickering exercise after all. Honda may well be the succession.

[Pflanzgarten]

How Honda get themselves on this situation is beyond me.

[Sandpit Steve]

Teddy Lop said:

IanUAE said:

I wonder if Aston Martin will stop using Merc engines in their new road cars and switch to rebadged Honda / Acura engines as part of the deal?

More chance of the stroll machine moving on and Aston F1 Martin being no more. Its a marketing/stickering exercise after all. Honda may well be the succession.

That makes more sense. Stroll did what he could for his son, but loses interest afterwards. Meanwhile, the value of the team will have shot up, so it was a great investment for his consortium.

A good branding exercise if you own a road car business, but the F1 team and the road car business are separate, the sensible thing would be to cash out and leave a Honda works team with the fancy new Silverstone factory, rather than trying to run everything out of Japan this time.

[Teppic]

And 5 years later they’ll fk off. Again.

[andycaca]

Teppic said:

And 5 years later they’ll fk off. Again.

And in 6 years, Lance will be WDC in that car...

[Muzzer79]

Prediction:

Honda supply engines from 2026

At some point between now and 2027 (probably sooner rather than later) Stroll will bail out of Aston and Geely will step in.

Honda take over the F1 team, Stroll remains a stakeholder to keep Lance employed.

Honda bail again by 2030.

[Piginapoke]

Muzzer79 said:

Prediction:

Honda supply engines from 2026

At some point between now and 2027 (probably sooner rather than later) Stroll will bail out of Aston and Geely will step in.

Honda take over the F1 team, Stroll remains a stakeholder to keep Lance employed.

Honda bail again by 2030.

All of that is very possible

[Fundoreen]

When they said they wanted to carry on it was the only logical solution.
Some progress as nobody mentions Alonso yet. The default answer to everything.
Its more significant that mclaren never got a look in.
Aston Martin were never going to develop ther own zero emissions engines as they sell so few cars
It would always be a mercedes or maybe now a honda under the bonnet of a road car.
Maybe they will go budget and have a range of cheap runabouts with geely technology.
A bit like those AJS 125cc bikes you see now.

[ntiz]

dobly said:

Let’s see what happens - Honda usually get there in the end, even if it not in year 1 of the plan.

Erm isn’t the Red Bull engine still Honda?

I know they have taken it on as their own but isn’t t it basically the Honda engine with Honda still consulting?

Which would suggest the Honda unit will be competitive possibly best in the field.

[Fundoreen]

When I see the red bull car on the track I think honda engine. I dont know what everyone else thinks happened the last couple of years.
Honda had some sort of breakthrough a couple of years back. Maybe it was due to the help they got back then when they were so poor
and meant they ditched tired old theories.

[thegreenhell]

ntiz said:

dobly said:

Let’s see what happens - Honda usually get there in the end, even if it not in year 1 of the plan.

Erm isn’t the Red Bull engine still Honda?

I know they have taken it on as their own but isn’t t it basically the Honda engine with Honda still consulting?

Which would suggest the Honda unit will be competitive possibly best in the field.

It is 100% Honda, even down to the name badge on it. They are still built and serviced in Japan, and operated at the track by Honda engineers.

Red Bull Powertrains are only involved in designing the 2026 engine, and have no involvement with the current engine in the Red Bull cars.

[Muzzer79]

Fundoreen said:

Maybe they will go budget and have a range of cheap runabouts with geely technology.

Who? Aston Martin?

Er....no.

[Lovey1]

So is the lead on the Red Bull powertrains website BS?

"Red Bull Powertrains was created in 2021 to supply power units to Oracle Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri for the 2022 Formula One season and beyond.

When Honda announced it was to exit Formula One at the end of the 2021 season, Red Bull created the new power unit division based at the Red Bull Technology Campus in a purpose-built, state-of-the-art facility.

Red Bull Powertrains currently works alongside Honda on the engines and will continue to do so trackside until the end of the 2025 season when the next generation of engines will be introduced. A Red Bull Powertrains team has been recruited and having recently taken up residence in the new facility, is working towards developing a power unit which will comply with 2026 regulations.

Speaking about Red Bull Powertrains, CEO Christian Horner, said: “This represents a significant step for Red Bull in its Formula One journey. We now begin the work of bringing the power unit division in-house and integrating the new facilities and personnel into our Technology Campus.” "

[Megaflow]

Muzzer79 said:

Prediction:

Honda supply engines from 2026

At some point between now and 2027 (probably sooner rather than later) Stroll will bail out of Aston and Geely will step in.

Honda take over the F1 team, Stroll remains a stakeholder to keep Lance employed.

Honda bail again by 2030.

Given that Mercedes have a reasonable stake in Aston Martin and provide engines for the road cars, I can't see them being too happy with Honda being involved and something like the above happening.

[realjv]

IanUAE said:

I wonder if Aston Martin will stop using Merc engines in their new road cars and switch to rebadged Honda / Acura engines as part of the deal?

That could be a tricky image/PR balancing act for Aston Martin. Given the small production volumes they produce it makes absolute sense for AM to not build their own engines instead but partner with another manufacturer. Mercedes is perceived to be a 'premium brand' so that sits relatively ok when you are trying to persuade your customers to drop a 100,000's on a new car. I'm not sure you can say the same if the engines came from Honda. I'm aware that Acura is perceived very differently in the US than Europe but I still think it would be a difficult image for Aston Martin to manage.

The shift to electric power may be a blessing or it may be a curse for AM. The engine is part of what makes an AM an AM and part of what makes it a premium product. A large capacity v12 or v8 burbling away projects that image on the tech spec sheet and in the finished product. What is the electric equivalent? If you can essentially drop an electric motor from any manufacturer in and it really doesn't matter then that would open up different partnership opportunities for AM. Geely increasing their stake in the company certainly suggests that they will likely be coming from Volvo/Polestar supply chain.

As for the relationship between the AM and the F1 team unless ego's get hurt I don't see any reason in the mid-term for it to change. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that AM pays ~$15m to the F1 team each year which I would suggest is very good value for them in terms of the marketing value they get out of it. Equally the F1 team absolutely benefits from the AM brand when it comes to it's own marketing and relationships with other sponsors/partners. Keeping Honda happy and ensuring they get the credit they deserve is the challenge and balancing act the F1 team will have to deal with.

Edited by realjv on Wednesday 24th May 13:16

[Jetblackonetenth]

Hope they have short memories

https://youtu.be/RwpiDqdugYY