2005 San Marino GP
Discussion
So as it's free to watch on Youtube, has anyone watched it? In the context of "bring back the V10s" and all the golden era rose tints of the past vs what we have with the new regs, how did it compare?
Some casual observations:
Very different format, both for qualifying, and with refuelling and different tyre manufacturers of course. I'd forgotten how different it used to be to be honest. This leant a degree of interest as we re-learnt how things worked, and the nature of qualifying 'badly' with heavy fuel to then go longer in the first stint etc. It felt more interesting as a one off contrast, but the reality was it was never really apparent where anyone "really" was until the last stint,
The "DRS train" was just a general performance train with 5 cars all about 8 tenths from each other lap after lap.
Schumacher was 2 seconds a lap faster than Alonso, and still couldn't overtake. He was similarly faster than Button, and had to take a really opportune pass because of Button's fumble over a back marker.
It didn't feel like there was much other overtaking, it was all just random pitstop durations and a bunch of retirements, not to mention cars qualifying out of order because of the fuelling. For clarity I'm not equating overtaking to racing as seems to be the done thing by FOM et al currently.
The cars are so small, so obviously light and nimble, and of course sounded heroic. This was 90% of the spectacle.
It was certainly interesting to watch as an F1 fan, but I think there was more going on across the field during Miami for example, and if it had a dull turbo V6 soundtrack it would have taken away an awful lot from the 'show'.
Some casual observations:
Very different format, both for qualifying, and with refuelling and different tyre manufacturers of course. I'd forgotten how different it used to be to be honest. This leant a degree of interest as we re-learnt how things worked, and the nature of qualifying 'badly' with heavy fuel to then go longer in the first stint etc. It felt more interesting as a one off contrast, but the reality was it was never really apparent where anyone "really" was until the last stint,
The "DRS train" was just a general performance train with 5 cars all about 8 tenths from each other lap after lap.
Schumacher was 2 seconds a lap faster than Alonso, and still couldn't overtake. He was similarly faster than Button, and had to take a really opportune pass because of Button's fumble over a back marker.
It didn't feel like there was much other overtaking, it was all just random pitstop durations and a bunch of retirements, not to mention cars qualifying out of order because of the fuelling. For clarity I'm not equating overtaking to racing as seems to be the done thing by FOM et al currently.
The cars are so small, so obviously light and nimble, and of course sounded heroic. This was 90% of the spectacle.
It was certainly interesting to watch as an F1 fan, but I think there was more going on across the field during Miami for example, and if it had a dull turbo V6 soundtrack it would have taken away an awful lot from the 'show'.
No tyre changes either in 2005.
There wasn't much overtaking in those days, but it's still great watching the smaller/lighter cars bouncing over the curbs. Those cars also looked harder to drive, todays cars look like they're on rails most of the time.
The last 20 laps with Schumacher chasing down Alonso, even without being able to overtake, there's some suspense watching him claw back down being 0.8 behind at the end. These days it's either an easy DRS pass or you're ahead by 20 seconds.
Rose tinted specs? Probably - Todays cars are super impressive from a technical view, but the size/weight means they're missing some of the spectacle for me.
There wasn't much overtaking in those days, but it's still great watching the smaller/lighter cars bouncing over the curbs. Those cars also looked harder to drive, todays cars look like they're on rails most of the time.
The last 20 laps with Schumacher chasing down Alonso, even without being able to overtake, there's some suspense watching him claw back down being 0.8 behind at the end. These days it's either an easy DRS pass or you're ahead by 20 seconds.
Rose tinted specs? Probably - Todays cars are super impressive from a technical view, but the size/weight means they're missing some of the spectacle for me.
mw88 said:
No tyre changes either in 2005.
There wasn't much overtaking in those days, but it's still great watching the smaller/lighter cars bouncing over the curbs. Those cars also looked harder to drive, todays cars look like they're on rails most of the time.
The last 20 laps with Schumacher chasing down Alonso, even without being able to overtake, there's some suspense watching him claw back down being 0.8 behind at the end. These days it's either an easy DRS pass or you're ahead by 20 seconds.
Rose tinted specs? Probably - Todays cars are super impressive from a technical view, but the size/weight means they're missing some of the spectacle for me.
Yeah agreed, the cars themselves were a spectacle, they looked and sounded fast even with the comparatively poor camera work and it not being a street circuit with walls right alongside for example to give any context to the speed.There wasn't much overtaking in those days, but it's still great watching the smaller/lighter cars bouncing over the curbs. Those cars also looked harder to drive, todays cars look like they're on rails most of the time.
The last 20 laps with Schumacher chasing down Alonso, even without being able to overtake, there's some suspense watching him claw back down being 0.8 behind at the end. These days it's either an easy DRS pass or you're ahead by 20 seconds.
Rose tinted specs? Probably - Todays cars are super impressive from a technical view, but the size/weight means they're missing some of the spectacle for me.
The hunting down was indeed exciting, but that sort of thing does still happen quite a bit now (maybe not the last few races...!), although it is unusual for a car that's 2 seconds a lap faster to inexplicably also be 30 seconds behind the lead car in order for there to be a 'hunt' of that magnitude!
I'm certainly not aiming to criticise the older races or anything like that, just thought it was interesting to watch a 2005 race out of the blue in the midst of a current season.
The cars looked so much faster in old footage - I'm thinking late '80s, '90s. I guess this is down to them being smaller. If you watch an Airbus A380 taking off it looks like it's going so much slower than an A320, yet it's actually going faster. I think it's the same with F1 cars, although the size differential isn't quite so great.
I have re-watched a few choice races from the V10 era and it does feel like a time warp - even though it's not that long ago.
The sport was still recklessly celebrating excessive component use - it's only a quali engine (pre 2003), it might last, but it'll be f
ked if it does.. 
But whilst there were aspects of the sport that I miss from those days, the sound for one... I think that overall what we have now is objectively better. It's natural when looking at the past to cherry pick what you liked about it - of course you do, you tend to forget the stuff that you don't care for because... you didn't care about those things. This is why in our youth every day was hot and sunny and fun - we forget the st rainy days when we did sod all memorable.
Qualifying is better now, it's typically a full hour of interesting observations, drama, surprise and jeopardy. Almost every weekend a few drivers qualify out of position as they attempt to gamble when to put a fast lap in. The pressure throughout modern F1 qualifying is constant and consistent - it's great, the sport has nailed it.
Modern technology in the form of on the fly camera stabilsation has made the on boards look like the cars are not as skittish as they truly are. They are also more planted via aero than back in the day, but it's the camera stabilsation which makes it look a LOT smoother than it really is - which is why the unstabilised helmet cams have been introduced. It annoys me when people compare the modern and older cars and conclude that the modern ones are 'on rails', they're not - the camera is on rails! And in any case, increase the grip of an F1 car, and all that will happen is the driver will push harder to find the limit and toy with it - same as ever. Whatever the limit is, they'll be on it.
As for the races themselves, I think they're better too. Strategy has become clearer for the viewer imo, and also more about good planning and less about operational factors such as the complication of re-fuelling - watching a bloke wrestle a hose into a hole (no jokes..) shouldn't be the deciding factor in how long a stop takes. These days the difference between a bad and good stop is fractions of a second so the key thing is generally when to take the stop, not how long or well the stop goes.
Overtaking, although mostly exciting to more casual viewers who miss the impact of strategy, has obviously hugely increased. I like that the drivers can now get close and battle for extended periods, even if much of that is down to DRS which has become a bit of a 'your go, my go' dynamic now. DRS aside, it's still important that they can get close and not suffer dirty air to the point at which they have to give up for fear of losing control, they can now stay in the battle for as long as their driving and car makes it worthwhile.
The increasing, or at least attempted Americanisation of the sport, along with what feels like a third of the season bumbling around the middle east concerns me a little. But in terms of format and car specs, I think the sport is overall in a pretty good place right now.
The sport was still recklessly celebrating excessive component use - it's only a quali engine (pre 2003), it might last, but it'll be f
ked if it does.. But whilst there were aspects of the sport that I miss from those days, the sound for one... I think that overall what we have now is objectively better. It's natural when looking at the past to cherry pick what you liked about it - of course you do, you tend to forget the stuff that you don't care for because... you didn't care about those things. This is why in our youth every day was hot and sunny and fun - we forget the s
t rainy days when we did sod all memorable.Qualifying is better now, it's typically a full hour of interesting observations, drama, surprise and jeopardy. Almost every weekend a few drivers qualify out of position as they attempt to gamble when to put a fast lap in. The pressure throughout modern F1 qualifying is constant and consistent - it's great, the sport has nailed it.
Modern technology in the form of on the fly camera stabilsation has made the on boards look like the cars are not as skittish as they truly are. They are also more planted via aero than back in the day, but it's the camera stabilsation which makes it look a LOT smoother than it really is - which is why the unstabilised helmet cams have been introduced. It annoys me when people compare the modern and older cars and conclude that the modern ones are 'on rails', they're not - the camera is on rails! And in any case, increase the grip of an F1 car, and all that will happen is the driver will push harder to find the limit and toy with it - same as ever. Whatever the limit is, they'll be on it.
As for the races themselves, I think they're better too. Strategy has become clearer for the viewer imo, and also more about good planning and less about operational factors such as the complication of re-fuelling - watching a bloke wrestle a hose into a hole (no jokes..) shouldn't be the deciding factor in how long a stop takes. These days the difference between a bad and good stop is fractions of a second so the key thing is generally when to take the stop, not how long or well the stop goes.
Overtaking, although mostly exciting to more casual viewers who miss the impact of strategy, has obviously hugely increased. I like that the drivers can now get close and battle for extended periods, even if much of that is down to DRS which has become a bit of a 'your go, my go' dynamic now. DRS aside, it's still important that they can get close and not suffer dirty air to the point at which they have to give up for fear of losing control, they can now stay in the battle for as long as their driving and car makes it worthwhile.
The increasing, or at least attempted Americanisation of the sport, along with what feels like a third of the season bumbling around the middle east concerns me a little. But in terms of format and car specs, I think the sport is overall in a pretty good place right now.
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