Ball joint won't separate from hub carrier - Mondeo Mk4

[Andy 308GTB]

This is a bit of a niche subject. There are a number of videos on YouTube and various methods have been suggested.

My understanding is that these ball joints don't have the usual taper - so the usual methods don't work (hammers etc.).
Ford used to sell a special tool for the job but they are no longer available and I can't see any on eBay.

The pickle fork type of tool can't be used as they damage the boot on the ball joint.

The main problem is that the driveshaft sits quite close to the top of the ball joint. So it cannot be whacked from above.
I have tried the method shown to be successful on YouTube which is to use a Wishbone Extractor tool that creates a lever from the inner part of the lower arm - and pulls the lower arm down and away from the ball joint. I applied plenty of Plus Gas, hit the area with a hammer/drift and then bounced around on the extractor tool without success. My son & I then both stood on the extractor tool and broke it...

My next idea is to replicate the Ford Tool by getting a spanner or similar piece of metal clamped over the top of the ball joint (using the bolt that holds the brake carrier) at one end & a part of the hub carrier at the other - and then to unscrew the nut that holds the ball joint in place, forcing the nut against the spanner and the ball joint downwards. That's the theory anyway.

3 hours to get nowhere so far...

[stevemcs]

4ft inch bar, biggest hammer you can find, and 3 people, one holding the hammer the other two standing on the bar.

[Andy 308GTB]

stevemcs said:

4ft inch bar, biggest hammer you can find, and 3 people, one holding the hammer the other two standing on the bar.

I suspect you are right.
The Haynes manual shows a lash up of a scaffold pole and a heavy duty chain using a lump of wood as the pivot. It really shouldn't be so difficult.

[stevemcs]

Count yourself lucky, we had a Volvo with an alloy hub, steel bolt - I say steel bolt, half a steel bolt .... that was fun (for the workshop)

[Andy 308GTB]

I've looked to go down the 1" steel bar route. But I can only get locally a 20' length which would cost £60 + VAT - they would cut it to length but the offcut would be mine.

Would a 5' aluminium scaffold pole (48.3mm x 4.5mm) be rigid & strong enough to support 2 adults standing on one end? I'm thinking it would be - I can get one for £33 delivered. This keeps the budget inside what a garage would charge me and a scaffold pole would be handy. I'm sure

[stevemcs]

you can use anything you want providing its long enough to stand on !

[Andy 308GTB]

stevemcs said:

you can use anything you want providing its long enough to stand on !

I stumbled across a scaffold supplies yard on an industrial estate just down the road. They sold me a secondhand 5' steel scaffold pole for £5. It certainly feels like it could support a few people. I can't believe how a stupid ball joint can be so stubborn.

[stevemcs]

It took 4 of us to put the gearbox and transfer box back in a mini countryman last week because the driveshaft wouldn't come out so the had to move everything in one go.

[E-bmw]

Andy 308GTB said:

stevemcs said:

you can use anything you want providing its long enough to stand on !

I stumbled across a scaffold supplies yard on an industrial estate just down the road. They sold me a secondhand 5' steel scaffold pole for £5. It certainly feels like it could support a few people. I can't believe how a stupid ball joint can be so stubborn.

This^^^^

They generally sell them at £1/foot, I have just recently bought 2 x 10ft lengths off a local one for £20.

[s p a c e m a n]

Any way to wedge a jack in there somewhere to try and spread it apart and then whack it a bit?

[Andy 308GTB]

s p a c e m a n said:

Any way to wedge a jack in there somewhere to try and spread it apart and then whack it a bit?

That's possibly another approach.
I'm going to have a go with the scaffold bar, 2 neighbours and a big hammer tomorrow evening. Whilst I am in there I will see what access there is to push them apart, rather than pull...

[richhead]

If there is a split in the hole in the upright where the bolt goes in, with the bolt out a chissel knocked into the split can widen the hole alittle , this can help, it there isnt then brut force is your ownly answer, or use a fork type tool and budget for a new joint/wishbone, they maybe cheaper than you would expect from a factor

[Andy 308GTB]

richhead said:

If there is a split in the hole in the upright where the bolt goes in, with the bolt out a chissel knocked into the split can widen the hole alittle , this can help, it there isnt then brut force is your ownly answer, or use a fork type tool and budget for a new joint/wishbone, they maybe cheaper than you would expect from a factor

Yes, I had considered sacrificing the ball joint. A new lower arm with all the bits is £50. (Or left & right for £85)
I couldn't see a split in the upright through all the crap, I will take a closer look tonight when the scaffold pole is deployed.

[tux850]

What's the reason for wanting to separate it? If it is to get the driveshaft out could you separate the hub carrier from the suspension strut instead?

Edited by tux850 on Tuesday 23 May 17:55

[Andy 308GTB]

tux850 said:

What's the reason for wanting to separate it? If it is to get the driveshaft out could you separate the hub carrier from the suspension strut instead?

One of CV boots has split.

That's a good suggestion. I'm just about to head out to apply brute force, I'll take a look but the standard approach appears to be separating the ball joint.

[Andy 308GTB]

There is no split in the upright to loosen the ball joint.
Removing the hub carrier looks like a nightmare.

My son and I were bouncing around on the end of the 5' scaffold pole this evening without success. Much hammering of the surrounding area with the other combatant on the scaffold pole didn't budge it. My next plan is to speak to my friend who is an MOT tester but also a very good, experienced mechanic. Hopefully, he'll take pity on me and get the car up on his ramp.

Failing that I may have to sacrifice the ball joint and replace the lower arm. FFS.

Out of interest (and so I can justify my spend). If I was to take the car to an independent garage - what would the labour charge be to replace the drive shaft or fit a new pair of CV boots to a drive shaft? Would they price it on the expectation that it's a ste job?

Some comedy photos of the scaffold pole lever I set up:

[sean ie3]

I'd remove the disc and caliper to give better access and use 2 hammers to hit both sides of the joint at the same time, combined with someone providing downward pressure this should sort it.

[vetrof]

Couldn't you undo the 3 mounting nuts of the ball joint & seperate it from the control arm & leave the shaft in place? Should give you enough play to be able to pull the hub outwards & pull the driveshaft from the bearing.

[Andy 308GTB]

vetrof said:

Couldn't you undo the 3 mounting nuts of the ball joint & seperate it from the control arm & leave the shaft in place? Should give you enough play to be able to pull the hub outwards & pull the driveshaft from the bearing.

They are riveted into the arm. They would need an angle grinder!

[ChocolateFrog]

Can't you take the whole hub and tie rod off if you're really struggling then stick it in a vice.

I've never failed with a combination of hammer and the 2 types of ball joint splitters.

I've had go get the angle grinder out on a fair few drop links though.