Podcast recommendation: Bring Back V10s

[Jimbo.]

Firstly, apologies if this has been done before. Just hoped to spread a little joy on a damp Bank Holiday Monday. Also, I’m nothing to do with the production of said podcast.

For any fans of the V10-era (inc. the overlap periods at the start and end, so the odd 1.5T, V12 and V8), the “Bring Back V10s” podcast is well worth a listen. 7 seasons of well-informed, easy-going yet detailed chat about specific moments of that era, be it Prost getting sacked by Ferrari, Adrain Newey’s Leyton House, Lola’s 1997 effort or my personal favourite, the pre-qualifying era cars such as Andrea Moda or the Subaru-engined Colonis. Highly recommended for those who like to geek out on such things

[MustangGT]

V10s are great, however, not a chance of bringing them back, they are dinosaur era.

[paulguitar]

It's a brilliant podcast, as is their one about current F1, which is called 'The Race'.


I think most people accept that V10s are not coming back, but I really hope something can be done to make the current cars somewhat more exciting. Live F1 used to be an absolute assault on the senses, and now, frankly, it is pretty lame.

[sparta6]

paulguitar said:

It's a brilliant podcast, as is their one about current F1, which is called 'The Race'.


I think most people accept that V10s are not coming back, but I really hope something can be done to make the current cars somewhat more exciting. Live F1 used to be an absolute assault on the senses, and now, frankly, it is pretty lame.

+1

V10 hybrid could be pretty spectacular.

A refuelling return could see every lap at quali pace.

[paulguitar]

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

It's a brilliant podcast, as is their one about current F1, which is called 'The Race'.


I think most people accept that V10s are not coming back, but I really hope something can be done to make the current cars somewhat more exciting. Live F1 used to be an absolute assault on the senses, and now, frankly, it is pretty lame.

+1

V10 hybrid could be pretty spectacular.

A refuelling return could see every lap at quali pace.

My issue here is that when we had refueling last time it resulted in very little on-track racing. So it would have to be done differently somehow.

[Sandpit Steve]

paulguitar said:

It's a brilliant podcast, as is their one about current F1, which is called 'The Race'.


I think most people accept that V10s are not coming back, but I really hope something can be done to make the current cars somewhat more exciting. Live F1 used to be an absolute assault on the senses, and now, frankly, it is pretty lame.

Something that brings back the sheer visceral emotion of the V10s would be welcome. One doesn’t need earplugs any more, even if the cars are technologically brilliant and massively efficient, and the n/a FIA F3 car support race is louder than F1.

Perhaps with modern technology and synthetic fuels, it would be possible to incorporate something more in that direction, within a hybrid system and a sensible fuel allowance.

Here’s Lewis reacting to a V10 doing a demo run, a couple of years ago. Volume up!

[sparta6]

paulguitar said:

sparta6 said:

paulguitar said:

It's a brilliant podcast, as is their one about current F1, which is called 'The Race'.


I think most people accept that V10s are not coming back, but I really hope something can be done to make the current cars somewhat more exciting. Live F1 used to be an absolute assault on the senses, and now, frankly, it is pretty lame.

+1

V10 hybrid could be pretty spectacular.

A refuelling return could see every lap at quali pace.

My issue here is that when we had refueling last time it resulted in very little on-track racing. So it would have to be done differently somehow.

Agree. Compulsory refuelling on the same lap # could work.
Pit stacking.
Hollywood touch !

[paulguitar]

sparta6 said:

Agree. Compulsory refuelling on the same lap # could work.
Pit stacking.
Hollywood touch !

Yeah, there's probably some way it could be made to work. Not sure it will happen though, they are trying to pretend F1 is 'green', and carrying all the refueling equipment around the world won't support that.

[paulguitar]

Sandpit Steve said:

Something that brings back the sheer visceral emotion of the V10s would be welcome. One doesn’t need earplugs any more, even if the cars are technologically brilliant and massively efficient, and the n/a FIA F3 car support race is louder than F1.

Perhaps with modern technology and synthetic fuels, it would be possible to incorporate something more in that direction, within a hybrid system and a sensible fuel allowance.

Here’s Lewis reacting to a V10 doing a demo run, a couple of years ago. Volume up!

I remember that, and feel just the same way!

Hybrid F1 is not F1 at all for me. I don't mind on the TV, particularly, but live F1 for me now is basically in the past. If I can get a cheap last-minute ticket I might go to qualli at Silverstone as I did last year, but there is no way I am paying the stupid ticket prices to see these lumbering giant machines wheezing by.

[Sandpit Steve]

paulguitar said:

I remember that, and feel just the same way!

Hybrid F1 is not F1 at all for me. I don't mind on the TV, particularly, but live F1 for me now is basically in the past. If I can get a cheap last-minute ticket I might go to qualli at Silverstone as I did last year, but there is no way I am paying the stupid ticket prices to see these lumbering giant machines wheezing by.

I definitely know what you mean, it’s really not the same without the noise and the earthquake.

That said, I’m determined to complete the bucket list of attending all the races during my lifetime. Only six different races so far, but I’m 45 and hopefully have three decades left to do it. Eyeing up Qatar for later this year, pretty much everything else is already sold out!

[paulguitar]

Sandpit Steve said:

paulguitar said:

I remember that, and feel just the same way!

Hybrid F1 is not F1 at all for me. I don't mind on the TV, particularly, but live F1 for me now is basically in the past. If I can get a cheap last-minute ticket I might go to qualli at Silverstone as I did last year, but there is no way I am paying the stupid ticket prices to see these lumbering giant machines wheezing by.

I definitely know what you mean, it’s really not the same without the noise and the earthquake.

That said, I’m determined to complete the bucket list of attending all the races during my lifetime. Only six different races so far, but I’m 45 and hopefully have three decades left to do it. Eyeing up Qatar for later this year, pretty much everything else is already sold out!

I'm amazed at how popular it is, bearing in mind the season is a proper letdown, the cost of the tickets, and that the cars are far from impressive when you're at the circuit. I consider myself very lucky to have gone to so many races during the time that the sport was viscerally mind-blowing. We had no idea back then that it would come to an end. Even though we are in the tenth year of hybrids, I just can't rustle up much enthusiasm for them. They are technical marvels, but I'd do anything to be able to just watch the current drivers plonked into cars from around 2005.


Your quest to see each race sounds like fun, however. I've been to 40-odd, but haven't done any outside of Europe. I did go to an Indycar race in California once, but those were turbos and sounded crap!

[sparta6]

paulguitar said:

sparta6 said:

Agree. Compulsory refuelling on the same lap # could work.
Pit stacking.
Hollywood touch !

Yeah, there's probably some way it could be made to work. Not sure it will happen though, they are trying to pretend F1 is 'green', and carrying all the refueling equipment around the world won't support that.

Formula E is also pretending to be green.

The amount of polluting gubbins required to build each street circuit is hilariously brushed under their carpet.

[Sandpit Steve]

sparta6 said:

Formula E is also pretending to be green.

The amount of polluting gubbins required to build each street circuit is hilariously brushed under their carpet.

Definitely don’t mention all the generators they use to charge the cars, because no, the local utility can’t always simply give them a couple of megawatts for the day. Nor the air freight, nor the congestion caused by closing the roads…

Back on topic, If you thought modern F1 cars made a terrible noise, don’t ever go and watch FE live.

[sparta6]

Sandpit Steve said:

sparta6 said:

Formula E is also pretending to be green.

The amount of polluting gubbins required to build each street circuit is hilariously brushed under their carpet.

Definitely don’t mention all the generators they use to charge the cars, because no, the local utility can’t always simply give them a couple of megawatts for the day. Nor the air freight, nor the congestion caused by closing the roads…

Back on topic, If you thought modern F1 cars made a terrible noise, don’t ever go and watch FE live.

Indeed ! And don't mention all the diesel machinery used for each Formula E rig and de-rig @ 4 weeks per circuit.

We did, and it was Dullsville Central ! Had a complimentary drink and swiftly headed to a better event

[entropy]

It's a good podcast series but the title annoys me because the retro content is biased towards the refuelling era and suggests the V10 era the greatest era of the sport but really it was a time when popularity suddenly increased with Mansell-mania and post-Senna/Imola 1994.

Personally I find the 80s much more fascinating particularly from a technological POV because it laid the foundations for modern F1.

As I have gotten older I have become much more respectful of F1 history and of eras before my time. I used to be ignorant of the 70s and I hated the high air intakes but now they are at the very least a guilty pleasure and just as ghastly and comical the aero were they were of its time just as like any other as will the current PUs will be be.

[stevilo]

I'm not sure I agree that V10s can never make a return. It's clear the link between F1 cars and real world power trains will continue to become more and more tenuous with it seemingly inevitable that road cars will all be BEV. Formula E has proven the F1 cannot go that route, no matter how battery technology improves - silent motors just cannot provide the spectacle. Yes F1 is currently hoping against hope, but it's not inconceivable that pragmatism prevails and they take a synthetic fuel route and just say it's entertainment with the link to road cars made in other ways.

As for refueling - it could be implemented in a way that avoids a lack of overtaking on track. How about starting with the same fuel from qualifying? And then a mandatory one fuel stop only, plus mandatory 2+ tyre changes. Doesn't need to be specifically that, but there are easy ways to maintain the need to overtake on track.

And a final thought edit on the link to road cars. It's clear we're heading to self driving cars. Then the link is totally broken.
Synthetic fuels will be needed to power vehicles for the half of the world without western infrastructure, for heavy vehicles and industry, and for aviation. F1 could maybe find synergies and sponsors/owners from there. I cannot see Tesla self driving cars running an F1 team...

Edited by stevilo on Tuesday 9th May 23:30

[freedman]

There's nothing wrong with refuelling, but, its like everything in Motorsport

Stop mandating things

Let teams pit for tyres if they want, or refuel if they want, but also let them run non stop, if that's the strategy they think is correct

Stop this stupid having to run 2 types of tyre and just give them x amount of fuel and sets of tyres per race

Bring back qualifying tyres and manufacturer competition

Oh and bin off DRS and tracks like Miami

[Sandpit Steve]

freedman said:

There's nothing wrong with refuelling, but, its like everything in Motorsport

Stop mandating things

Let teams pit for tyres if they want, or refuel if they want, but also let them run non stop, if that's the strategy they think is correct

Stop this stupid having to run 2 types of tyre and just give them x amount of fuel and sets of tyres per race

Bring back qualifying tyres and manufacturer competition

Oh and bin off DRS and tracks like Miami

Half of me wants a fuel allowance, a crash test, and a budget, with everything else free.

The other half remembers seasons where one car aced it, they were seconds ahead of the field per lap and didn’t let their drivers race each other.

DRS can now safely be binned off, I agree. Annoyingly, the recent new tracks are all city street circuits, which just don’t make for good racing. Americans, build another COTA if you want another race.

[paulguitar]

Sandpit Steve said:

The other half remembers seasons where one car aced it, they were seconds ahead of the field per lap and didn’t let their drivers race each other.

You don't need a very long memory to remember that.

About three days.

[Sandpit Steve]

paulguitar said:

You don't need a very long memory to remember that.

About three days.

That’s a little harsh, given the way the strategy played out on Sunday, but I get where you’re coming from.

Back on topic, a crap race could be redeemed by the visceral experiace we all had just from being there, which just isn’t the case today.

I remember being at Silverstone in the late ‘80s, aged 10 or 11, with my father’s ear defenders and my father’s camera. There’s a photo somewhere, that I took of Senna’s car spraying sparks from the rear. I need to dig it out.