DB11/DBS V12 AE31 production numbers?
Discussion
Now that it seems that the curtain really has very sadly come down for good on Aston Martin engine design and production, does anyone have the information to hand on global production of cars with the last ever Aston Martin designed engine, the AE31 twin turbo V12?
I’ve had a bit of a google, and can’t find anything definitive.
I will absolutely be hanging on to mine. It’s the end of a 110year epoch.
I’ve had a bit of a google, and can’t find anything definitive.
I will absolutely be hanging on to mine. It’s the end of a 110year epoch.
bump.
Is anyone out there able to offer anything on this?
I managed to find European production numbers for DB11, suggesting about 4000 sold 2016-2022. Assuming maybe the same number again globally, it would be maybe 8000?
I read somewhere that approx 75% of all DB11 were specified with the M177, seems off given that the AMG V8 wasn't available for the first year or so, and the lions share of orders and deliveries were between 2016 and 2018.
Anyway, that would put the number of AE31 V12 built for DB11 at roughly 2000-2500, with perhaps the same again for the 2018-2023 DBSS and the other specials like V12V and Speedster etc.
So I'm wildly guessing at a number of 4000-5000 V12 AE31 built before production ceased. Can anyone advise?
Is anyone out there able to offer anything on this?
I managed to find European production numbers for DB11, suggesting about 4000 sold 2016-2022. Assuming maybe the same number again globally, it would be maybe 8000?
I read somewhere that approx 75% of all DB11 were specified with the M177, seems off given that the AMG V8 wasn't available for the first year or so, and the lions share of orders and deliveries were between 2016 and 2018.
Anyway, that would put the number of AE31 V12 built for DB11 at roughly 2000-2500, with perhaps the same again for the 2018-2023 DBSS and the other specials like V12V and Speedster etc.
So I'm wildly guessing at a number of 4000-5000 V12 AE31 built before production ceased. Can anyone advise?
Ive no idea but my gut instinct is you are way under the actual numbers there.
Just the last “final” editions alone are over 1000 units. 333 V12VTT coupes plus 249 V12VTT Roadsters plus 499 770 DBS editions is 1081 engines and they were just the ltd edition run out models all made within 12-18mths on top of std DBS and DB11 V12’s in the same period.
Maybe drop Tim C a message on FB and ask him for prod numbers of the DBS and DB11 and add the specials to that…
I'm gonna guess its more like 10,000-12,000 in total worldwide.
EDIT:
How many left shows 1300 DB11 V12s registered and over 800 DBS up to 2022. UK sales seems to be about 20% of global these days, but that may not hold up for V12 to be fair.... Plus 25 DBS Zagatos + 88 Speedsters so another 100 specials there...
Still think its going to be north of 10,000 in total all said 'n done
2nd EDIT:
Do we know how many n/a V12's Aston Made? Id be fairly sure there were less TT versions made so that may be another indicator.
Just the last “final” editions alone are over 1000 units. 333 V12VTT coupes plus 249 V12VTT Roadsters plus 499 770 DBS editions is 1081 engines and they were just the ltd edition run out models all made within 12-18mths on top of std DBS and DB11 V12’s in the same period.
Maybe drop Tim C a message on FB and ask him for prod numbers of the DBS and DB11 and add the specials to that…
I'm gonna guess its more like 10,000-12,000 in total worldwide.
EDIT:
How many left shows 1300 DB11 V12s registered and over 800 DBS up to 2022. UK sales seems to be about 20% of global these days, but that may not hold up for V12 to be fair.... Plus 25 DBS Zagatos + 88 Speedsters so another 100 specials there...
Still think its going to be north of 10,000 in total all said 'n done
2nd EDIT:
Do we know how many n/a V12's Aston Made? Id be fairly sure there were less TT versions made so that may be another indicator.
Edited by AdamV12V on Saturday 22 April 18:05
Has anyone been able to confirm that Aston's V12 is in fact going out of production, and/or that the DB11 successor will be V8-only? Last year, Moers said it would continue until at least 2026.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35004232/aston-...
By the way, 2026 isn't OK. Whether it goes away now or then, that's apparently the end of Aston Martin engines. That's the end of Aston Martin. I said it before -- yes, more than once, because it means everything. Moers and Stroll have or will destroy Aston Martin. Was the damage they did already beyond the point of no return when Moers was sacked? Does Felisa get it? Does he care? Aston's own new TMV6 was very far along its development. Moers and Stroll killed it. And lied about it. An "Aston Martin" that doesn't make its own engines isn't Aston Martin. Unforgivable.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35004232/aston-...
By the way, 2026 isn't OK. Whether it goes away now or then, that's apparently the end of Aston Martin engines. That's the end of Aston Martin. I said it before -- yes, more than once, because it means everything. Moers and Stroll have or will destroy Aston Martin. Was the damage they did already beyond the point of no return when Moers was sacked? Does Felisa get it? Does he care? Aston's own new TMV6 was very far along its development. Moers and Stroll killed it. And lied about it. An "Aston Martin" that doesn't make its own engines isn't Aston Martin. Unforgivable.
Well at AMEP, 43,376 engines were made between 04 - 21 before production ceased. But that is obviously a mix of 5.2 and 6.0.
The wider question is all that AML have said to an interested owner is a third party is manufacturing the 5.2 now in the UK, but stopped short of saying who.
The wider question is all that AML have said to an interested owner is a third party is manufacturing the 5.2 now in the UK, but stopped short of saying who.
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 25th April 06:47
Ninja59 said:
Well at AMEP, 43,376 engines were made between 04 - 21 before production ceased. But that is obviously a mix of 5.2 and 6.0.
The wider question is all that AML have said to an interested owner is a third party is manufacturing the 5.2 now in the UK, but stopped short of saying who.
Ahh yes I saw that facebook post too. The poster is a member here too I believe.The wider question is all that AML have said to an interested owner is a third party is manufacturing the 5.2 now in the UK, but stopped short of saying who.
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 25th April 06:47
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1428557477270816/per...
It does say the numbers are only to the end of 2021 and are estimated for 2022. No mention at all of 2023 for the V12 at least.
Seems surprising that twice as many V12 engines as V8 engines over largely similar periods too I thought.
Speedraser said:
Has anyone been able to confirm that Aston's V12 is in fact going out of production, and/or that the DB11 successor will be V8-only? Last year, Moers said it would continue until at least 2026.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35004232/aston-...
By the way, 2026 isn't OK. Whether it goes away now or then, that's apparently the end of Aston Martin engines. That's the end of Aston Martin. I said it before -- yes, more than once, because it means everything. Moers and Stroll have or will destroy Aston Martin. Was the damage they did already beyond the point of no return when Moers was sacked? Does Felisa get it? Does he care? Aston's own new TMV6 was very far along its development. Moers and Stroll killed it. And lied about it. An "Aston Martin" that doesn't make its own engines isn't Aston Martin. Unforgivable.
I have heard from two separate sources, both employees of main dealers, the DB12 is to be V8 only. The V12 has been retired. It is already out of production. The AMEP, a corner of the huge Ford plant in cologne is gone. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35004232/aston-...
By the way, 2026 isn't OK. Whether it goes away now or then, that's apparently the end of Aston Martin engines. That's the end of Aston Martin. I said it before -- yes, more than once, because it means everything. Moers and Stroll have or will destroy Aston Martin. Was the damage they did already beyond the point of no return when Moers was sacked? Does Felisa get it? Does he care? Aston's own new TMV6 was very far along its development. Moers and Stroll killed it. And lied about it. An "Aston Martin" that doesn't make its own engines isn't Aston Martin. Unforgivable.
This rumour that AML somehow brought production and assembly back to the UK for the last handful of DB11, DBS and V12V engines seems to be a bit of a myth. It is quite something to set up V12 engine machining and assembly, the AMEP had four distinct areas, the first centred around a very large multi axis machining centre for machining of the blocks, the second was around another machining centre machining the heads, the third was the assembly section where, true to tradition a single tech would build each engine and the final one handled logistics, scheduled final hot cold test, and managed components in and final dispatch of the the completed and passed off V8 and V12 motors back to Gaydon.
Recreating all that, even in slimmed down form would be something of an achievement, and would not have gone unnoticed, hence the whiff of BS.
It’s not publicised, and we can understand why for lots of reasons including what was put on record by the then management just a year ago, but I think we have to face facts…
Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 25th April 12:37
Unforgivable. Shameful. An automotive tragedy. I've loved Astons since I was a little kid. I'd always put them in the same general category as Ferrari from a specialness and desirability perspective. No way can Aston be considered a player in that league if they no longer make their own engines. Wish I'd been wrong. Still hope I am.
Speedraser said:
Unforgivable. Shameful. An automotive tragedy. I've loved Astons since I was a little kid. I'd always put them in the same general category as Ferrari from a specialness and desirability perspective. No way can Aston be considered a player in that league if they no longer make their own engines. Wish I'd been wrong. Still hope I am.
Do you have any opinion about engines in Aston Martin cars ?
Does it matter, if for example, cheap engines made in China are used, or maybe engines assembled in a foreign country, perhaps Deutschland or the United States of America? Excellent rocket engines are made in the USA, so they must know a thing or two about engines.
Would it be preferable for you, if the engines were made in England or Wales?
I think there used to be Aston Martin employess wearing brown coats, working in Newport Pagnell who built engines, but most of them are now retired, so it has become rather awkward.
Ambitious engineers leaving school now, want to have the prefix Software in their job title and they definitely don't want to wear brown coats.
I also hope I am wrong, and that somehow the V12 turbo can make a comeback in some future hot version of the DB12.
There are very significant problems with that though, the first being that if AML are going to try to claim that the DB11 facelift is an all new car, then it needs to be homologated again. Hoisted by their own marketing petard so to speak..
Joking aside, it isn’t only that - we as customers are just as much to blame as Stroll, If only 25% of owners opted for the V12, there would seem to be little point in continuing with it, especially given the costs not only of homologation, but also continued development and continuing with agreements with Ford Germany, especially with Brexit creating all sorts of new obstacles to trade, movement of goods across european borders and origin rules affecting taxation.
We have only the Brits themselves, well more specifically the English to thank for that. Many were conned by a total fraud (Boris) a closet Fascist (Farage) and some strange dood trapped in the 19th century (Mogg) to vote against their own interest - as a result, the UK is going to suffer decades of economic malaise through lost FDI, lost opportunities and lost trade. The influence on AMLs accelerated decision is just a tiny and insignificant example.
Add to that the tax penalties of selling/buying anything with an engine over 4litre in key growth markets, the fact that the AMG engine line is already capable of 200hp/ltr, already beyond realistic limits for front engined rear drive cars (look how the DBS could never get its power down) and the case for the AE31 looked weak.
Add in again the need to focus resources on the upcoming refreshes to keep the current range viable (blame Andy Palmer for poor interior design, green lighting cars that were in the end not quite special or even beautiful enough to sell in the numbers required), and the need to focus remaining resources on preparing for the upcoming electric era, and, well, as management it would have been an easy decision to make. You can argue an even easier decision if as a senior manager or owner you are a businessman, not really an AM fan and don’t ‘feel it’ as Mr Speedraiser and indeed I perhaps do.
It is easy to understand the hard business perspective of management, times have changed, the hard fact that most DB11 customers once that option was available, opted for the Merc engined variant, the poor sales performance of the DBS, the lukewarm reception to the new V12V, and the relative success of the AMG-only DBX will have all helped force the decision. The world has changed.
Management would argue all the above, and also state that AML have not really built ‘their own’ engines since 2003 when the AMEP opened within a German Ford plant under to produce engines that had been developed under Ford ownership by Ford (or Jaguar - again ultimately Ford) employees. The semantics of whether the n/a engines were Aston or not can be and indeed has been discussed to death on Pistonheads.
Management would also argue that the possibility to have an Aston-only bespoke engine continues. The ultra exotica will continue to be offered with bespoke, aston only engines, not ‘made’ by Aston Martin themselves, but still built in the UK, by respected names like Cosworth or Ricardo. Only the uber rich can still have an ‘Aston bespoke’ engine, so if you care that much, you’d better get saving…
Fact is, the n/a V8 and V12 were designed and produced in an era where management still considered it important to maintain the strong impression that Aston Martin engines were Aston-only, bespoke products. That era has passed. It no longer matters to most customers.
That hard reality is something AML ownership/management will have breathed a sigh of relief over, as for many reasons, many detailed above, continuing to develop and maintain the companies own engine offering was increasingly a non-viable and pointless proposition.
Last point (for Jon) automobile production facilities have not been staffed by men in brown coats and hammers for several decades, in fact Newport Pagnell may well (perhaps excepting Morgan or TVR) have been the last ever to feature said specimens.
The industry, and indeed AML moved on a long time ago. UK engineering graduates getting into the automotive industry (of which I was one, albeit many moons ago) now work in pristine offices principally using advanced software to model and design component, system and product.
Machining and assembly facilities are also clean and modern, with production or process engineers again principally involved in setting up and maintaining the line, and validating what comes off it. For engineers out on the line, maybe white coats and hi-vis, but oil and cigarette stained brown coats, fag behind one ear, pencil behind another, principal tools english wheel and hammer? no, not any more…
There are very significant problems with that though, the first being that if AML are going to try to claim that the DB11 facelift is an all new car, then it needs to be homologated again. Hoisted by their own marketing petard so to speak..
Joking aside, it isn’t only that - we as customers are just as much to blame as Stroll, If only 25% of owners opted for the V12, there would seem to be little point in continuing with it, especially given the costs not only of homologation, but also continued development and continuing with agreements with Ford Germany, especially with Brexit creating all sorts of new obstacles to trade, movement of goods across european borders and origin rules affecting taxation.
We have only the Brits themselves, well more specifically the English to thank for that. Many were conned by a total fraud (Boris) a closet Fascist (Farage) and some strange dood trapped in the 19th century (Mogg) to vote against their own interest - as a result, the UK is going to suffer decades of economic malaise through lost FDI, lost opportunities and lost trade. The influence on AMLs accelerated decision is just a tiny and insignificant example.
Add to that the tax penalties of selling/buying anything with an engine over 4litre in key growth markets, the fact that the AMG engine line is already capable of 200hp/ltr, already beyond realistic limits for front engined rear drive cars (look how the DBS could never get its power down) and the case for the AE31 looked weak.
Add in again the need to focus resources on the upcoming refreshes to keep the current range viable (blame Andy Palmer for poor interior design, green lighting cars that were in the end not quite special or even beautiful enough to sell in the numbers required), and the need to focus remaining resources on preparing for the upcoming electric era, and, well, as management it would have been an easy decision to make. You can argue an even easier decision if as a senior manager or owner you are a businessman, not really an AM fan and don’t ‘feel it’ as Mr Speedraiser and indeed I perhaps do.
It is easy to understand the hard business perspective of management, times have changed, the hard fact that most DB11 customers once that option was available, opted for the Merc engined variant, the poor sales performance of the DBS, the lukewarm reception to the new V12V, and the relative success of the AMG-only DBX will have all helped force the decision. The world has changed.
Management would argue all the above, and also state that AML have not really built ‘their own’ engines since 2003 when the AMEP opened within a German Ford plant under to produce engines that had been developed under Ford ownership by Ford (or Jaguar - again ultimately Ford) employees. The semantics of whether the n/a engines were Aston or not can be and indeed has been discussed to death on Pistonheads.
Management would also argue that the possibility to have an Aston-only bespoke engine continues. The ultra exotica will continue to be offered with bespoke, aston only engines, not ‘made’ by Aston Martin themselves, but still built in the UK, by respected names like Cosworth or Ricardo. Only the uber rich can still have an ‘Aston bespoke’ engine, so if you care that much, you’d better get saving…
Fact is, the n/a V8 and V12 were designed and produced in an era where management still considered it important to maintain the strong impression that Aston Martin engines were Aston-only, bespoke products. That era has passed. It no longer matters to most customers.
That hard reality is something AML ownership/management will have breathed a sigh of relief over, as for many reasons, many detailed above, continuing to develop and maintain the companies own engine offering was increasingly a non-viable and pointless proposition.
Last point (for Jon) automobile production facilities have not been staffed by men in brown coats and hammers for several decades, in fact Newport Pagnell may well (perhaps excepting Morgan or TVR) have been the last ever to feature said specimens.
The industry, and indeed AML moved on a long time ago. UK engineering graduates getting into the automotive industry (of which I was one, albeit many moons ago) now work in pristine offices principally using advanced software to model and design component, system and product.
Machining and assembly facilities are also clean and modern, with production or process engineers again principally involved in setting up and maintaining the line, and validating what comes off it. For engineers out on the line, maybe white coats and hi-vis, but oil and cigarette stained brown coats, fag behind one ear, pencil behind another, principal tools english wheel and hammer? no, not any more…
Edited by Calinours on Wednesday 26th April 10:19
Calinours said:
Last point for Jon, automobile production facilities have not been staffed by men in brown coats and hammers for several decades, in fact Newport Pagnell may well (perhaps excepting Morgan or TVR) may have been the last ever to feature said specimens. The industry, and indeed AML moved on, UK engineering graduates (which, many moons ago was I) now, if they elect to get into the automotive industry work in pristine offices principally using advanced software to model and design component, system and product. Machining and assembly facilities are also clean and modern, with the engineers again principally involved in setting up and maintaining the line, and validating what comes off it.
Yes, I do know all about those points, Calinours.
When someone stands on a stage wearing funny clothes
the audience is ready for jokes.
The problem with PH, when writing in a semi-humorous way, is most readers seem to take everything so seriously.
I did try to give a clue this time, with a smily face.
We once had a very funny contributor, username Avinalarf. Get it? (Having a laugh, with a Cockney twist.)
An upright London businessman and decades long multiple Aston Martin owner and enthusiast.
Of course my post centred on Speedraser's mention of his distain for non-AM engines.
He has by now, probably repeated that about a thousand times to us.
He certainly would not have any hope of winning Just A Minute. ☆
It might even have caused some PHers to seek treatment for Echolalia.
☆ A very long running British Broadcasting Corporation radio game show.
Talk for one minute without repetition, hesitation or deviation.
Oh, I have just noticed the time. Breakfast in bed has been served. Must get up now. Bye, bye.
Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 26th April 10:37
ah, fair enough.
Most engineers, truth be told, would feature somewhere on some ‘spectrum’ and I guess I’m no different.
I have great sympathy with Speedraiser on the engine point though. After 100 years, to finally, effectively cease any real involvement in developing your own bespoke powertrain solutions may perhaps be a big deal only to a shrinking minority, it does mark the end of an era. I see that AML appearing to try to hide the fact does rub a bit of salt in.
So what now ?
A short interbellum where the company relies exclusively on bought in Mercedes M177 engines, presented as an Aston lump by virtue of maybe an Aston-only metal sump pan and noise-tweaked manifold and exhaust..?
…extended by adding a bit of AML developed mild hybridisation (making the powertrain a tad more bespoke for the dwindling numbers of those who still care?
Then, into the electric era, who knows? At least PH’ers appear to be interested going by the number of contributors to your thread on the subject.
Most engineers, truth be told, would feature somewhere on some ‘spectrum’ and I guess I’m no different.
I have great sympathy with Speedraiser on the engine point though. After 100 years, to finally, effectively cease any real involvement in developing your own bespoke powertrain solutions may perhaps be a big deal only to a shrinking minority, it does mark the end of an era. I see that AML appearing to try to hide the fact does rub a bit of salt in.
So what now ?
A short interbellum where the company relies exclusively on bought in Mercedes M177 engines, presented as an Aston lump by virtue of maybe an Aston-only metal sump pan and noise-tweaked manifold and exhaust..?
…extended by adding a bit of AML developed mild hybridisation (making the powertrain a tad more bespoke for the dwindling numbers of those who still care?
Then, into the electric era, who knows? At least PH’ers appear to be interested going by the number of contributors to your thread on the subject.
Edited by Calinours on Wednesday 26th April 11:58
Calinours said:
I have heard from two separate sources, both employees of main dealers, the DB12 is to be V8 only. The V12 has been retired. It is already out of production. The AMEP, a corner of the huge Ford plant in cologne is gone.
This rumour that AML somehow brought production and assembly back to the UK for the last handful of DB11, DBS and V12V engines seems to be a bit of a myth. It is quite something to set up V12 engine machining and assembly, the AMEP had four distinct areas, the first centred around a very large multi axis machining centre for machining of the blocks, the second was around another machining centre machining the heads, the third was the assembly section where, true to tradition a single tech would build each engine and the final one handled logistics, scheduled final hot cold test, and managed components in and final dispatch of the the completed and passed off V8 and V12 motors back to Gaydon.
Recreating all that, even in slimmed down form would be something of an achievement, and would not have gone unnoticed, hence the whiff of BS.
It’s not publicised, and we can understand why for lots of reasons including what was put on record by the then management just a year ago, but I think we have to face facts…
That is exactly in line with what I have heard. This rumour that AML somehow brought production and assembly back to the UK for the last handful of DB11, DBS and V12V engines seems to be a bit of a myth. It is quite something to set up V12 engine machining and assembly, the AMEP had four distinct areas, the first centred around a very large multi axis machining centre for machining of the blocks, the second was around another machining centre machining the heads, the third was the assembly section where, true to tradition a single tech would build each engine and the final one handled logistics, scheduled final hot cold test, and managed components in and final dispatch of the the completed and passed off V8 and V12 motors back to Gaydon.
Recreating all that, even in slimmed down form would be something of an achievement, and would not have gone unnoticed, hence the whiff of BS.
It’s not publicised, and we can understand why for lots of reasons including what was put on record by the then management just a year ago, but I think we have to face facts…
The acceleration of the conversion to BEV-only of the Ford plant contributed to this issue.
Ford needed this building (formerly used for AM-Engine plant) to establish the new pilot plant. If I remember correctly, the lease cancellation was an issue in an AML annual report? Risk section? Anyway - Aston Martin seems to be out of this plant for quite a while since even google maps shows this building as pilot plant and not as AMEP anymore. Opening of the new pilot plant was in March 2022, if I remember correctly.
The future environmental legislation requires basically a plug-in-hybrid-EV-architecture. Best example is the Ferrari 296, with a downsized 3.0 turbo charged engine 663 HP combined with 167 HP electric motor, resulting in 830 HP. The car is able to drive 20 or 25 km as an EV, before the ICE jumps in - and meets environmental legislation.
The 4.0 V8, combined with an electric motor will achieve an output of more than 800 HP. This engine will form the basis and will be the future for Aston Martin GT-cars like the DB12 and Vantage, but also for Valhalla. There is simply no way that Aston Martin could develop such a complex piece of engineering on a bespoke, stand alone basis, setting up its own engine plant in the UK. That would have been suicide and the death of the company.
Contrary to Speedraser I am 100% convinced that AML management took the logical and correct decision. Facing the fact that manufacturing in Cologne could not continue, and the complication of developing an plug-in-hybrid-EV-architecture and the option to use the AMG engine as basis for all future cars, it was very clear which path they had to go.
Interesting, if the plant did indeed close over a year ago and they stopped making the V12TT at that point as it did NOT continue in the UK, then they have pre-built an awful lot of V12TT engines and stored them somewhere for the last year's run out specials on V12VTT and DBS 770 alone....
That would seem to be the fat end of 1000 engines to store somewhere.... Is that feasible?
That would seem to be the fat end of 1000 engines to store somewhere.... Is that feasible?
This is why I am keen to establish production numbers for the last ever AML engine. It is a really good engine, a V12, and I consider that, in the end, it may in time turn out to be thought of as a rather desirable, special and coveted thing among the Aston cognoscenti.
The production period was very short, and as alternatives were available, a small fraction of the n/a V12 numbers were built - a much smaller supply to meet a possible future increased s/h market demand.
There’s many on other threads suggesting that the Vanq will be the better investment than the DB11 V12. A year ago I would have agreed. Now I’m not so sure.
The production period was very short, and as alternatives were available, a small fraction of the n/a V12 numbers were built - a much smaller supply to meet a possible future increased s/h market demand.
There’s many on other threads suggesting that the Vanq will be the better investment than the DB11 V12. A year ago I would have agreed. Now I’m not so sure.
Nbgring said:
Contrary to Speedraser I am 100% convinced that AML management took the logical and correct decision. Facing the fact that manufacturing in Cologne could not continue, and the complication of developing a plug-in-hybrid-EV-architecture and the option to use the AMG engine as basis for all future cars, it was very clear which path they had to go.
Yes, simply applying common sense (usually sensible in business) leads to that conclusion.
A shame when thinking back, but so much has changed in recent years, that AML had no alternative choice.
Ferrari are in an entirely different position at present. Regular sizeable profits and a constantly full order book, whereby Ferrari can even decide who they want to buy their cars.
Unfortunately for AML, as a business Ferrari are in another world.
AdamV12V said:
Interesting, if the plant did indeed close over a year ago and they stopped making the V12TT at that point as it did NOT continue in the UK, then they have pre-built an awful lot of V12TT engines and stored them somewhere for the last year's run out specials on V12VTT and DBS 770 alone....
That would seem to be the fat end of 1000 engines to store somewhere.... Is that feasible?
In a word - yes. That would seem to be the fat end of 1000 engines to store somewhere.... Is that feasible?
The AE31 were not built to order, it was the exact same engine that went into DB11, DBS, Speedster and V12V. There were no changes from when production commenced in 2016.
Production runs would have been planned taking into account the balance between costs, supply contracts, capacity and when the various supply and use agreements terminated. With declining sales of the V12 engined product, pandemic affects and the end for the AMEP in sight it is entirely feasible that stock of completed engine assemblies could have built up over a number of years. The completed , tested and signed off engines can be very easily stored for extended periods.
Such a scenario explains the final run limited editions with strictly defined production numbers, stuff like the V12V and DBS 770. It is a way to get rid of the stock.
I still hope I’m wrong, but all real and circumstantial evidence and even hearsay does rather point to the end for AML engine production after just 6 short years for the fantastic, all Aston Martin, twin turbo AE31 V12 - it had enormous potential. They should have at least have offered it in the DBX.
Jon39 said:
Unfortunately for AML, as a business Ferrari are in another world.
I’ve long idly thought that a merger between McLaren and Aston Martin as effectively happened 75yrs ago with Lagonda could produce a British Ferrari. I don’t so much mean the cars, more a strong corporate entity making amazing products that justified the branding (a la Ferrari)
It would just need some top drawer management and a rich and benevolent long term investor. Both companies would bring very serious added value to the table.
But no, it appears that Stroll is going to revive the pointless, meaningless and effectively defunct Lagonda ‘brand’ - or should I now say ‘label’?
Aston Martin McLaren.
Ah well, I can dream.
Calinours said:
I’ve long idly thought that a merger between McLaren and Aston Martin as effectively happened 75yrs ago with Lagonda could produce a British Ferrari. I don’t so much mean the cars, more a strong corporate entity making amazing products that justified the branding (a la Ferrari)
It would just need some top drawer management and a rich and benevolent long term investor. Both companies would bring very serious added value to the table.
But no, it appears that Stroll is going to revive the pointless, meaningless and effectively defunct Lagonda ‘brand’ - or should I now say ‘label’?
Aston Martin McLaren.
Ah well, I can dream.
It would just need some top drawer management and a rich and benevolent long term investor. Both companies would bring very serious added value to the table.
But no, it appears that Stroll is going to revive the pointless, meaningless and effectively defunct Lagonda ‘brand’ - or should I now say ‘label’?
Aston Martin McLaren.
Ah well, I can dream.
A dream that might turn into a nightmare.
I don't follow McLaren very closely, but do know;
- They sold and leased back their building.
- Sold their valuable collection of cars, although the buyer has loaned them for continued display.
- Monthly UK new registrations of McLarens have been miniscule for some time.
Think there might have also been fund raising.
Just considering those few facts and it is probably not a happy place at McLaren.
Companies House website might reveal a fuller 'picture', but I have not looked.
Calinours said:
Indeed.
I’ve long idly thought that a merger between McLaren and Aston Martin as effectively happened 75yrs ago with Lagonda could produce a British Ferrari. I don’t so much mean the cars, more a strong corporate entity making amazing products that justified the branding (a la Ferrari)
It would just need some top drawer management and a rich and benevolent long term investor. Both companies would bring very serious added value to the table.
But no, it appears that Stroll is going to revive the pointless, meaningless and effectively defunct Lagonda ‘brand’ - or should I now say ‘label’?
Aston Martin McLaren.
Ah well, I can dream.
I can't see any positives with a modern MclarenI’ve long idly thought that a merger between McLaren and Aston Martin as effectively happened 75yrs ago with Lagonda could produce a British Ferrari. I don’t so much mean the cars, more a strong corporate entity making amazing products that justified the branding (a la Ferrari)
It would just need some top drawer management and a rich and benevolent long term investor. Both companies would bring very serious added value to the table.
But no, it appears that Stroll is going to revive the pointless, meaningless and effectively defunct Lagonda ‘brand’ - or should I now say ‘label’?
Aston Martin McLaren.
Ah well, I can dream.
None.
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