Calling gym bunnies
Discussion
I have tried the Mens Health forum, which seems to be poulated by the hard of understanding and 14 year olds trying to get six-packs in 2 weeks before going to Ibiza with their Mum.
So here's my problem and question(s).
Having had an 18 month period when the gym was a place I passed on the way to McDonalds I am now back at it 4 or 5 times a week. Feeling good for a previously fat 44 year old too!
I spent the first 2 months just regaining my fitness, and although I didn't lose any weight I certainly moved it from the gut to the upper body.
Because I go quite often I alternate between a day of upper body and a day of lower body to give the muscles a rest and a 20 minute cario session every other day. The fitness adviser suggested I continue with this regime but mixed it up a bit, so now I still do a day of upper and lower but each day I have a slight variation (one day pyramid sets, next day slow sets, then extra compound sets, then super sets then extra sets of everything). I also have a variation in the CV work based upon BPM, a day at 60%, then 70% then 80% and then a day of HIIT.
Thing is, is this too much variation (it takes over a month weeks to get around the full pattern). You get conflicting advice on whether you need to keep challenging your body or give it routine.
So here's my problem and question(s).
Having had an 18 month period when the gym was a place I passed on the way to McDonalds I am now back at it 4 or 5 times a week. Feeling good for a previously fat 44 year old too!
I spent the first 2 months just regaining my fitness, and although I didn't lose any weight I certainly moved it from the gut to the upper body.
Because I go quite often I alternate between a day of upper body and a day of lower body to give the muscles a rest and a 20 minute cario session every other day. The fitness adviser suggested I continue with this regime but mixed it up a bit, so now I still do a day of upper and lower but each day I have a slight variation (one day pyramid sets, next day slow sets, then extra compound sets, then super sets then extra sets of everything). I also have a variation in the CV work based upon BPM, a day at 60%, then 70% then 80% and then a day of HIIT.
Thing is, is this too much variation (it takes over a month weeks to get around the full pattern). You get conflicting advice on whether you need to keep challenging your body or give it routine.
definitely on the right track..just try to increase weights a little every couple of weeks as well, not by much , just a little.
variation is the key to adaption and improvement.
ultimately you will only lose weight by using more calories than you ingest, so diet is a massive part of the equation, as is rest..
good luck, and well done for starting up in the first place, thats the hardest part.
variation is the key to adaption and improvement.
ultimately you will only lose weight by using more calories than you ingest, so diet is a massive part of the equation, as is rest..
good luck, and well done for starting up in the first place, thats the hardest part.
I currently have an 8 day workout, which I do on weekdays typically 4 or 5 days a week.
I have a very specific set, so rather than upper or lower or cardio on each day, I have chest on day 1, biceps and shoulders day 2, triceps and upper back day 3 etc. But then my days 5 - 8 are the same muscle groups, but using them in different ways.
The key - I have been told - is to make your muscles work, and to do it in differing ways.
It sounds like you have a good routine, and if you feel it's doing well for you - FANTASTIC, keep at it. If not, and you want to 'feel' more on a particular group, just have a word with your instructor (mine is real welcoming and doesn't mind you chatting and asking q's at all).
I stress to others reading that all the above was after 1 yr of simply gaining fitness and gaining muscle (similar to the original poster), before getting specific and concentrating on muscle groups daily.
I have a very specific set, so rather than upper or lower or cardio on each day, I have chest on day 1, biceps and shoulders day 2, triceps and upper back day 3 etc. But then my days 5 - 8 are the same muscle groups, but using them in different ways.
The key - I have been told - is to make your muscles work, and to do it in differing ways.
It sounds like you have a good routine, and if you feel it's doing well for you - FANTASTIC, keep at it. If not, and you want to 'feel' more on a particular group, just have a word with your instructor (mine is real welcoming and doesn't mind you chatting and asking q's at all).
I stress to others reading that all the above was after 1 yr of simply gaining fitness and gaining muscle (similar to the original poster), before getting specific and concentrating on muscle groups daily.
Most fitness trainers say that you should vary your training regime. I think it is for reasons of getting all round fitness, tone and strength. It will also help prevent you getting bored too. Personally I think that it is best to find a training regime that you enjoy and that gives you tangible results. I did weights three times a week for about four years which was a bit too much routine for me. I started doing kickboxing and circuit training alongside weight training and have seen a far greater increase in strength, stamina and muscle tone from this. Everyone is different, however. My advice would be to try some circuit style classes alongside your weights program to discover what you enjoy most and what your body responds to best. Also, you will need to build up your weights gradually and then keep increasing them until you reach the point where you are content. You do need to keep pushing yourself though. Seeing and feeling the results of your hard work will be a real factor in motivating you.
Have fun - that is most important!
>> Edited by EmmaP on Thursday 25th August 11:01
Have fun - that is most important!
>> Edited by EmmaP on Thursday 25th August 11:01
You do need to keeping challenging your body and variation is the key to this, but I'd say what you're currently doing is too much of a good thing. When they say you need variation, they mean stick to a programme (particularly with weights) for maybe 4-6 weeks then change; although if you are continuing to see improvements there is no reason you shouldn't carry on longer.
My advice would be to pick the programme you enjoy the most/feel you get the most out of, then carry on with until your gains in strength/fitness/etc are slowing down and then change to another programme. When your body adapts to that one either start a new one or go back to the first.
The way you're doing things at the moment, you can't be sure what is really working for you the best, and maximising the results for the work you're putting in.
My advice would be to pick the programme you enjoy the most/feel you get the most out of, then carry on with until your gains in strength/fitness/etc are slowing down and then change to another programme. When your body adapts to that one either start a new one or go back to the first.
The way you're doing things at the moment, you can't be sure what is really working for you the best, and maximising the results for the work you're putting in.
AlexH said:
. When they say you need variation, they mean stick to a programme (particularly with weights) for maybe 4-6 weeks then change;
thats not strictly true ... same basic program yes,, but should vary(in a set pattern) weights/recovery time/ numebr of sets and reps within the same basic exercises..
funinthesun said:
. When they say you need variation, they mean stick to a programme (particularly with weights) for maybe 4-6 weeks then change;
thats not strictly true ... same basic program yes,, but should vary(in a set pattern) weights/recovery time/ numebr of sets and reps within the same basic exercises..
If you are changing all that you're not doing 'the same basic' programme in the slightest...in which case you're all over the place again and don't know what is working for you.
The exercises you do don't have anything to do with the programme, since you can do any exercise on any programme; it is the weights/sets/recovery times that make a programme.
tonyhetherington said:
recovery time
By recovery time, I assume you mean the number of days in between reworking the same muscle group? (as opposed to how many minutes you leave between doing sets? I simply do it when I feel like I can again)
No, I am talking about the time between sets. Its much better to time your rests between sets as you'll be able to judge your progress much better; you might go in one day and think you've made loads of progress because you got more reps out with the weights you're using, but actually you've just taken longer rests inadvertantly. Likewise, you might think you've had a crap day because you managed fewer reps than you thought you'd manage but only because you didn't rest for as long as previously.
You should always rest a muscle group for minimum 48 hours to give it time to recover between workouts, no matter what programme you're on, as it is during this time the muscles increase in strength/size (whichever you're training for), not while at the gym.
actually its the exercises that make up a program, the weights used ( which should always be a % of body weight not an absolute set by a 'personal trainer), are variable week to week, as are the numebr of sets and recovery. you need to structure each week to attain quick and effective progression.
yes change around exercises after the mesoccyle you are on has run its course ( usually 4 - 6 weeks), but the micro cycles should vary week to week.
most gym trainers have no clue as to how to set a program...
to be brutally honest most people in gyms dont know the best way to train themselves for what they are after.
I see persona trainers getting their clients to do exerises ( technically poor form, potentially harmful) that make me cringe...
there are many ways of attaining goals in a gym, going 3 times a week will no doubt improve your fitness and physique, but you need proper advise to get th ebest out of you rtime spent. i think that is why a lot of people give up becasue they are not seeni gthe results they would liek becasue the advis ethey get is quite frankly poor..
yes change around exercises after the mesoccyle you are on has run its course ( usually 4 - 6 weeks), but the micro cycles should vary week to week.
most gym trainers have no clue as to how to set a program...
to be brutally honest most people in gyms dont know the best way to train themselves for what they are after.
I see persona trainers getting their clients to do exerises ( technically poor form, potentially harmful) that make me cringe...
there are many ways of attaining goals in a gym, going 3 times a week will no doubt improve your fitness and physique, but you need proper advise to get th ebest out of you rtime spent. i think that is why a lot of people give up becasue they are not seeni gthe results they would liek becasue the advis ethey get is quite frankly poor..
AlexH said:
You should always rest a muscle group for minimum 48 hours to give it time to recover between workouts, no matter what programme you're on, as it is during this time the muscles increase in strength/size (whichever you're training for), not while at the gym.
not necessarily, depends what you are doing to your muscles, what training, if you need that much or less or more rest.
rest between sets also entirely depends on what you are tryin gto achieve.
example, muscle APT recovery takes a minimum of three minutes any thing less than that and you are not getting 100% use from the muscle.. entirely depends on what you are trying to make your muscle do, and for what end.. size , stamina, speed, power, all require different methods of training...
>> Edited by funinthesun on Thursday 25th August 12:35
funinthesun said:
actually its the exercises that make up a program,
Sorry mate but whoever told you that is talking rubbish.
If I go the gym to work my biceps (for example), the difference between doing a preacher curl or a concentration curl or standing or seated alternate curls or EZ bar curls is much of a muchness compared to whether I go light or heavy, how long I make my rest intervals and if I take a longer or shorter amount of time of the positive or negative rep.
Anyone who is reasonably educated about working out should know a wide variety of exercises and be able to choose which one(s) they do for whichever muscle group(s) they are working that day. I won't decide which exercises I'm doing until I'm standing in the gym, but I will know how I'm going to be doing them. Apart from anything else, those who believe the exercises make up a programme are the ones you see standing around getting cold because they're waiting for one the gym gorillas and partner to take ten minutes to finish on a piece of equipment rather than just going and hitting the muscle with a different exercise to much the same effect.
every exersie works a muscle in a slightly different way and agnle and pressure point..
the physiology of training a muscle group/person is far more involved than just deciding what do do when you turn up, and random rest periods...
fron tsquat or back squat , for example, you would say both works the legs so choose either you feel like doing..thats rubbish..if you had ever trained or competed in a sport that required you to train to your best you would know that some , possibly less gifted individuals re still betterthan you, why?, becasue they train properly.. if all you wan to do if a few bicep exercises in the gym so your shirts are a bit tight them fair enough and good luck..
a LITTLE knowledge can be a dangerous thing..
the physiology of training a muscle group/person is far more involved than just deciding what do do when you turn up, and random rest periods...
fron tsquat or back squat , for example, you would say both works the legs so choose either you feel like doing..thats rubbish..if you had ever trained or competed in a sport that required you to train to your best you would know that some , possibly less gifted individuals re still betterthan you, why?, becasue they train properly.. if all you wan to do if a few bicep exercises in the gym so your shirts are a bit tight them fair enough and good luck..
a LITTLE knowledge can be a dangerous thing..
I do 30 minutes on the Concept 2 full-on three times a week and two sessions of heavy weights (5@75%, 4@80%, 3@85%, 2@90%, 1@95%) at the moment. I tend to maintain a high heart rate on the ergo because it works for me. Namby-pambying around at a low rate is something I could do all day.
I only added the weights recently to rebuild muscle, but the ergo sessions over the last four or five months have taken off around a stone (to 13st11 (87.5kg)) and dropped my waist from 37 to 34.5 inches. Not bad for a 6'2" 38 year old, I think.
I only added the weights recently to rebuild muscle, but the ergo sessions over the last four or five months have taken off around a stone (to 13st11 (87.5kg)) and dropped my waist from 37 to 34.5 inches. Not bad for a 6'2" 38 year old, I think.
funinthesun said:
every exersie works a muscle in a slightly different way and agnle and pressure point..
Agreed. All the more reason to mix up exercises to promote better all round development of the muscle (and supporting muscle groups)...
funinthesun said:
the physiology of training a muscle group/person is far more involved than just deciding what do do when you turn up, and random rest periods...
Agreed...I've said before I don't believe in random rest periods, but there are alot of aspects of any workout regime we can alter to tailor it to our particular needs, whether physiological or sporting.
funinthesun said:
front squat or back squat , for example, you would say both works the legs so choose either you feel like doing..thats rubbish..if you had ever trained or competed in a sport that required you to train to your best you would know that some , possibly less gifted individuals re still betterthan you, why?, becasue they train properly.. if all you wan to do if a few bicep exercises in the gym so your shirts are a bit tight them fair enough and good luck..
Agreed again, if you're looking for ultimate performance particularly in a sport in which you may need a very particular strength/muscular endurance/whatever but I would still assert that for the vast majority of gym goers mixing up exercises (as long as the working of all muscles and muscle groups is balanced) will lead to better results. How many times have you seen people who will do (for example) flat bench presses endlessly because they like it or have heard its a great compound exercise when mixing it up with incline and decline presses and flyes would be far more beneficial.
funinthesun said:
a LITTLE knowledge can be a dangerous thing..
Couldn't agree more...
AlexH said:
you need variation, they mean stick to a programme (particularly with weights) for maybe 4-6 weeks then change; although if you are continuing to see improvements there is no reason you shouldn't carry on longer.
All the more reason to mix up exercises to promote better all round development of the muscle (and supporting muscle groups).
.
maybe a little contradictory there.
but , ultimately you need to talk to some one who actually knows what they are talking about( how the body works how it recovers, what damage you are doing to it , combined with nutrician and rest) and get a program designed around what you are trying to achieve. it MUST be structured , progressive and bespoke. you should never go into a gym and not know exactly what you are going to do/ how heavy/long/much rest you will be taking.
age is no barrier to fitness or body type...
its not actually that hard to get in shape, the worlds best diet is just eat what you need to for your body to function...if your over weight eat less, you will lose weight , simple as that..taking exedrcise just speeds up the process and gets everything working better/...
99.99% of people will never be in a position where they need to be in the best physical shape they can be, even if they do its only sustainable for a few weeks..
so train to get fit play sport but do it properly..
you will probably never get the chance to drive a formula one car in anger, but are quite happy to use the knowledge gained and advancents made when they are applied to your daily drive.. same applied to sports/getting fit, you may never get to the olympics( or indeed want to ) but can benefit from people that have ( and those that train them) should be used. just because some one picks up bits of info from the odd magazine or the big bloke at the gym doesnt make it right...
good point to remember is you need to have time off from training, not just a day or so, but a good week off every coupe of months, to recover...
as an example if you do any exercise to absolute failure ( or with assisted reps at the end, which is a very bad idea in itself), it can take your muscle up to six weeks to fully recover...
this really is the only way to get the most from your time and effort.
Very few people actually KNOW how to train properly although many will claim to..
So all these arguments about exercise/sets/rest/time off, blah, blah, blah....
what is the BEST way to lose weight and improve fitness when you've been a stone and a half overweight for the last 5 years or so?
I joined a gym in January this year and apart from 4 weeks holiday and illness, I've been going twice a week every week until this month, when I can now spare the time to go three times a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday).
I've seen some improvement during that time, but not as much as I'd like.
A "typical" day at the gym will include:
20 or 30 minutes of two or three of the following; rowing, cycling, treadmill, stepper, cross trainer with arms, and a different type without arms. I mix it up each time I go, so I don't do the same exercise twice in the same week, and I tend to do programmes that are not constant speed (i.e. alternate between walking uphill and sprinting on flat for example).
Then I do half an hour of toning, doing 3 sets of 20 reps, I choose the weight so that the last 3 lifts in each set are a struggle, or I use my own body weight, alternating between arms, legs and stomach.
I finish with 15 minutes of stretching.
I'd like to see faster results, but apart from hiring a personal trainer every time I go (which I can't afford), I'm not sure how to make my gym sessions more beneficial.
what is the BEST way to lose weight and improve fitness when you've been a stone and a half overweight for the last 5 years or so?
I joined a gym in January this year and apart from 4 weeks holiday and illness, I've been going twice a week every week until this month, when I can now spare the time to go three times a week (Monday, Wednesday and Friday).
I've seen some improvement during that time, but not as much as I'd like.
A "typical" day at the gym will include:
20 or 30 minutes of two or three of the following; rowing, cycling, treadmill, stepper, cross trainer with arms, and a different type without arms. I mix it up each time I go, so I don't do the same exercise twice in the same week, and I tend to do programmes that are not constant speed (i.e. alternate between walking uphill and sprinting on flat for example).
Then I do half an hour of toning, doing 3 sets of 20 reps, I choose the weight so that the last 3 lifts in each set are a struggle, or I use my own body weight, alternating between arms, legs and stomach.
I finish with 15 minutes of stretching.
I'd like to see faster results, but apart from hiring a personal trainer every time I go (which I can't afford), I'm not sure how to make my gym sessions more beneficial.
cardio work is great for your heart ( funnily enough), but as soon as you stop what ever you are doing you stop burning the calories.with circuits / weights you will continue to burn calories for a few hours after as your mucsles have had to work harder and are burning more calories up in replenishment/initial recovery phase.
plus the fact that if you add a little ( and being female you WILL not add that much muscle bulk) muscle, everything you do you will burn off more calories, includng just sitting on a sofa, as th emuscles you have will require more calories to function.
the actual work you do in the gym will not really burn off that many calories in itself, a few hundred at best, its what you do around it that really counts.
diet , and by diet i dont mean just eat onions for a month, but your overall diet might need addressing, as well as sleep patterns , caffine intake, alcohol etc( i am assuming here), or even vitamine / mineral deficiencies may be in effect.
best advise is try to get a personal trainer for one or two sessons( but make sure its a very good one) to see what they have to say, look at changin gyour session a little and look at your diet..
sets of 20 reps is a littl ehigh , try 12 -15 reps with a litttle more resistance. always try to do the weights resistance work before the cardio part..
plus the fact that if you add a little ( and being female you WILL not add that much muscle bulk) muscle, everything you do you will burn off more calories, includng just sitting on a sofa, as th emuscles you have will require more calories to function.
the actual work you do in the gym will not really burn off that many calories in itself, a few hundred at best, its what you do around it that really counts.
diet , and by diet i dont mean just eat onions for a month, but your overall diet might need addressing, as well as sleep patterns , caffine intake, alcohol etc( i am assuming here), or even vitamine / mineral deficiencies may be in effect.
best advise is try to get a personal trainer for one or two sessons( but make sure its a very good one) to see what they have to say, look at changin gyour session a little and look at your diet..
sets of 20 reps is a littl ehigh , try 12 -15 reps with a litttle more resistance. always try to do the weights resistance work before the cardio part..
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