What do you think's going on at Audi right now then?
Discussion
Recent F1 article, first engine fire up scheduled to run before the end of the year
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.the-pro...
Do we think they'll make it? Do we think it'll be a competitive engine starting from 'scratch'?
I'm not aware of any significant staff they've recruited out to Germany?
Will Audi stick with it for long if they're at the back of the grid, or can they legitimately challenge the 'big 3' (4?)
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.the-pro...
Do we think they'll make it? Do we think it'll be a competitive engine starting from 'scratch'?
I'm not aware of any significant staff they've recruited out to Germany?
Will Audi stick with it for long if they're at the back of the grid, or can they legitimately challenge the 'big 3' (4?)
Audi have a track record for being competitive and close to the front if not leading. Only issue will be finding drivers to take the seats who can compete but also have the experience to help develop the car in the first seasons... Lando Norris moving to them might be a possibility, I can't see him staying at McLaren if they don't make big steps forward soon. Though the Audi F1 Lead has stated in interviews he would like Sainz and Alonso in the team, so who knows?
They probably have the money and then some to tempt any driver on the current grid.
They probably have the money and then some to tempt any driver on the current grid.
Well, there have been rumours for years that some teams are for sale at the right price. VAG probably have enough money to do it right, so why not? If the Andretti Motorsport team is allowed to swell the grid, I don't see why another can't - provided the incumbent 10 teams can stop throwing their toys our of their prams!
Of course they’ll make it. Too much money involved not to ‘make it’
Will they be competitive? That, is the $64,000 question. History says no, but stranger things have happened in F1.
Drivers? I reckon a young, talented rookie and a seasoned veteran to start with.
Probably too far out for Alonso……maybe Perez or even Bottas…..could be a good project for Ricciardo.
Will they be competitive? That, is the $64,000 question. History says no, but stranger things have happened in F1.
Drivers? I reckon a young, talented rookie and a seasoned veteran to start with.
Probably too far out for Alonso……maybe Perez or even Bottas…..could be a good project for Ricciardo.
kalexan273 said:
Audi have a track record for being competitive and close to the front if not leading. Only issue will be finding drivers to take the seats who can compete but also have the experience to help develop the car in the first seasons... Lando Norris moving to them might be a possibility, I can't see him staying at McLaren if they don't make big steps forward soon. Though the Audi F1 Lead has stated in interviews he would like Sainz and Alonso in the team, so who knows?
They probably have the money and then some to tempt any driver on the current grid.
The seat would suit Alonso's driving style. All Audi's do is understeer all day.They probably have the money and then some to tempt any driver on the current grid.
Muzzer79 said:
Of course they’ll make it. Too much money involved not to ‘make it’
Will they be competitive? That, is the $64,000 question. History says no, but stranger things have happened in F1.
Drivers? I reckon a young, talented rookie and a seasoned veteran to start with.
Probably too far out for Alonso……maybe Perez or even Bottas…..could be a good project for Ricciardo.
Audi have shown in the past that when they go into something (Rallying, Endurance etc) they do it ptoperly and with the intention of winning. However, as you say, F1 History is full of manufacturers who haven't made it - Toyota probably being the best example here.Will they be competitive? That, is the $64,000 question. History says no, but stranger things have happened in F1.
Drivers? I reckon a young, talented rookie and a seasoned veteran to start with.
Probably too far out for Alonso……maybe Perez or even Bottas…..could be a good project for Ricciardo.
They'll build the right team of people and use the Sauber knowledge well but getting the engine competitive from scratch will be hard.
They'll need an experienced driver to lead on this - too late for Alonso, Bottas or Ricciardo I think so Perez or Sainz for me plus Schumacher as a steady backup maybe although there are plenty that could do that role.
Mark-C said:
They'll need an experienced driver to lead on this - too late for Alonso, Bottas or Ricciardo I think so Perez or Sainz for me plus Schumacher as a steady backup maybe although there are plenty that could do that role.
Perez is 33 years old. Ricciardo is 34 in July
Bottas is 34 in August.
If Perez isn't past it, neither is Bottas or Ricciardo for me. Although, they'll all be late 30's when Audi properly take over.
I thought Sainz, but I think he's impatient to win titles. He's 28, so will be 31 when they officially enter and won't fancy a potentially lengthy journey to competitiveness with Audi.
Audi have won everywhere, but F1 is a very different ball game and they do not have an advantage like 4wd, turbo, diesel, FSi etc as they have always seemed to have in the past.
When pushed they were beatable as seen in rallying where they were comprehensively beaten by Lancia and Peugeot despite thinking they could develop the front engined concept with two revolutions that were utterly thrashed by the competition. And in WEC Porsche pushed them in the end as did Peugeot and Toyota.
F1 is a very different ball game and I can see ripples of what Toyota did actually, they thought money could buy success and they never got a win despite spending vast sums because they were a bit arrogant and did not realise what it actually took.
But Toyota were not proven in circuit racing, Audi are, they have led tech for years in WEC, but my fear is not drivers that will come with time, no-one will want to go there initially it could be like Honda and McLaren for 2 years.
When pushed they were beatable as seen in rallying where they were comprehensively beaten by Lancia and Peugeot despite thinking they could develop the front engined concept with two revolutions that were utterly thrashed by the competition. And in WEC Porsche pushed them in the end as did Peugeot and Toyota.
F1 is a very different ball game and I can see ripples of what Toyota did actually, they thought money could buy success and they never got a win despite spending vast sums because they were a bit arrogant and did not realise what it actually took.
But Toyota were not proven in circuit racing, Audi are, they have led tech for years in WEC, but my fear is not drivers that will come with time, no-one will want to go there initially it could be like Honda and McLaren for 2 years.
Starting from zero with the budget cap they would never have got anywhere as they could never have spent enough to get up to speed.
By the existing sauber team route they have a bit less far to go...to be featuring in the middle somewhere.
Puts the andretti plan into perspective as they would just been another haas having the odd result.
Apparently Audi have joined f1 and will spend 100s of millions as a vehicle for the talents of an ex haas driver.
Such is the joining lego bricks together analysis we get a lot of now.
By the existing sauber team route they have a bit less far to go...to be featuring in the middle somewhere.
Puts the andretti plan into perspective as they would just been another haas having the odd result.
Apparently Audi have joined f1 and will spend 100s of millions as a vehicle for the talents of an ex haas driver.
Such is the joining lego bricks together analysis we get a lot of now.
Muzzer79 said:
Mark-C said:
They'll need an experienced driver to lead on this - too late for Alonso, Bottas or Ricciardo I think so Perez or Sainz for me plus Schumacher as a steady backup maybe although there are plenty that could do that role.
Perez is 33 years old. Ricciardo is 34 in July
Bottas is 34 in August.
If Perez isn't past it, neither is Bottas or Ricciardo for me. Although, they'll all be late 30's when Audi properly take over.
I thought Sainz, but I think he's impatient to win titles. He's 28, so will be 31 when they officially enter and won't fancy a potentially lengthy journey to competitiveness with Audi.
He is their ideal candidate for experience, age, talent / skill, plus could very easily have his loyalty to McLaren tested, given their current performance.
Plus there is the obvious Andreas Seidl relationship
mat205125 said:
Muzzer79 said:
Mark-C said:
They'll need an experienced driver to lead on this - too late for Alonso, Bottas or Ricciardo I think so Perez or Sainz for me plus Schumacher as a steady backup maybe although there are plenty that could do that role.
Perez is 33 years old. Ricciardo is 34 in July
Bottas is 34 in August.
If Perez isn't past it, neither is Bottas or Ricciardo for me. Although, they'll all be late 30's when Audi properly take over.
I thought Sainz, but I think he's impatient to win titles. He's 28, so will be 31 when they officially enter and won't fancy a potentially lengthy journey to competitiveness with Audi.
He is their ideal candidate for experience, age, talent / skill, plus could very easily have his loyalty to McLaren tested, given their current performance.
Plus there is the obvious Andreas Seidl relationship
Norris is an interesting shout but all he's done in his career is look good in a not very good car. That's a gamble for Audi but then any driver switching to Audi is going to be taking a gamble on the engine.
mat205125 said:
I'd be putting money on them offering Norris a very sizeable paycheque to join their project.
He is their ideal candidate for experience, age, talent / skill, plus could very easily have his loyalty to McLaren tested, given their current performance.
Plus there is the obvious Andreas Seidl relationship
Getting the CEO to put his arm around Lando, just as Niki Lauda did with Lewis a decade ago, is the way forward. He is their ideal candidate for experience, age, talent / skill, plus could very easily have his loyalty to McLaren tested, given their current performance.
Plus there is the obvious Andreas Seidl relationship
They are in it to win it, and - fairly or not - will compared to the last German marque who turned up on the F1 grid, back in 2010.
Sandpit Steve said:
Getting the CEO to put his arm around Lando, just as Niki Lauda did with Lewis a decade ago, is the way forward.
They are in it to win it, and - fairly or not - will compared to the last German marque who turned up on the F1 grid, back in 2010.
With Uncle Seidl being the equivilent of Uncle Ron that Lewis had from much earlier years too.They are in it to win it, and - fairly or not - will compared to the last German marque who turned up on the F1 grid, back in 2010.
VAG wont be going to F1 to mess about at the end of the day
A lot depends on how many Sauber staff they retain and what level of influence they have doesn't it?
I know they've long struggled with a smaller budget than most but they don't pull up many trees in the process. If Audi have Audi/VAG motorsport people involved they're more likely to be a success, although I guess you could look at Le Mans and say a lot of it was Joest.
I know they've long struggled with a smaller budget than most but they don't pull up many trees in the process. If Audi have Audi/VAG motorsport people involved they're more likely to be a success, although I guess you could look at Le Mans and say a lot of it was Joest.
I think it's an interesting prospect because as people have said, Audi don't mess about when they compete in motorsport, and it's not as if they don't have the money behind them...
But then there's quite a strong precedent of OEMs wading in and turning a big pile of resources in to a small pile of points.
But then there's quite a strong precedent of OEMs wading in and turning a big pile of resources in to a small pile of points.
They've been reasonably sensible in buying an existing team, rather than trying to do a Toyota and start from scratch.
Key will be if they want to do it 'their' way or do it the way that will make them win.
Ferrari in the early 2000s and Mercedes in the late 2010s both dropped 'their' way and did what was necessary to win, coincidentally both with Ross Brawn's guidance.
Jaguar (Ford) could not forget 'their' way and neither could Toyota, hence the lack of success. The same could largely be said for Honda on the engine side, from 2015-2018.
Hopefully, VAG will go in with ears open aswell as wallets and make a go of it.
Key will be if they want to do it 'their' way or do it the way that will make them win.
Ferrari in the early 2000s and Mercedes in the late 2010s both dropped 'their' way and did what was necessary to win, coincidentally both with Ross Brawn's guidance.
Jaguar (Ford) could not forget 'their' way and neither could Toyota, hence the lack of success. The same could largely be said for Honda on the engine side, from 2015-2018.
Hopefully, VAG will go in with ears open aswell as wallets and make a go of it.
Muzzer79 said:
They've been reasonably sensible in buying an existing team, rather than trying to do a Toyota and start from scratch.
Key will be if they want to do it 'their' way or do it the way that will make them win.
Ferrari in the early 2000s and Mercedes in the late 2010s both dropped 'their' way and did what was necessary to win, coincidentally both with Ross Brawn's guidance.
Jaguar (Ford) could not forget 'their' way and neither could Toyota, hence the lack of success. The same could largely be said for Honda on the engine side, from 2015-2018.
Hopefully, VAG will go in with ears open aswell as wallets and make a go of it.
Good point. Could VAG actually get Brawn to do the Niki Lauda Mercedes role, very part time and consultant? Key will be if they want to do it 'their' way or do it the way that will make them win.
Ferrari in the early 2000s and Mercedes in the late 2010s both dropped 'their' way and did what was necessary to win, coincidentally both with Ross Brawn's guidance.
Jaguar (Ford) could not forget 'their' way and neither could Toyota, hence the lack of success. The same could largely be said for Honda on the engine side, from 2015-2018.
Hopefully, VAG will go in with ears open aswell as wallets and make a go of it.
They have to be up for winning, they can’t be seen to be beaten by Mercedes every other Sunday.
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