Lance Armstrong and positive drug tests
Discussion
The French sports paper, l'Equipe, has come out with revelations that Armstrong's urine samples from back in 1999 (his first Tour victory) have been retested using techniques not available at the time and found positive for EPA, which is now banned and routinely tested for.
There is a clearly a bit of gallic anti-Americanism in the pleasure that they have taken shouting this news to the world. Now my french friends are suddenly offended by the articles in the British and US press about the frogs, poor losers, pointless character staining post-retirement, etc. Apparently there is a nasty article in the sports pages of the Guardian (!) that one of my more socialist friends loves to read (I can't see it due to webnazi sports filters on the work access).
I have to say, I don't see the relevance or use of their revelations - he met the dope testing standards at the time, he's now retired, they can't realistically punish him, the tests can not be verified by other laboratories (for some reason). Seems like french mud-slinging and I hope they cocked up and get hit with a hefty lawsuit!
Do you think that they're right to do this to "clean up the sport" as they claim so nobly?
There is a clearly a bit of gallic anti-Americanism in the pleasure that they have taken shouting this news to the world. Now my french friends are suddenly offended by the articles in the British and US press about the frogs, poor losers, pointless character staining post-retirement, etc. Apparently there is a nasty article in the sports pages of the Guardian (!) that one of my more socialist friends loves to read (I can't see it due to webnazi sports filters on the work access).
I have to say, I don't see the relevance or use of their revelations - he met the dope testing standards at the time, he's now retired, they can't realistically punish him, the tests can not be verified by other laboratories (for some reason). Seems like french mud-slinging and I hope they cocked up and get hit with a hefty lawsuit!
Do you think that they're right to do this to "clean up the sport" as they claim so nobly?
read this story at lunch, in short, EPO is a banned substance, its performance enhancing drug which boots red blood cell production.
the samples were taken in 1999 when EPO was not one of the substances tested for. The samples were kept and tests developed to search for them in existing samples for the 200 olympics. The samples provided by Armstong did, apparently, contain EPO. Armstrong denies every taking a performance enhancing drug.
Eddy Merckx is quoted as saying "if i had to take lances word or a journalists, i would take lances"
Can a seven year old sample really be valid?
the samples were taken in 1999 when EPO was not one of the substances tested for. The samples were kept and tests developed to search for them in existing samples for the 200 olympics. The samples provided by Armstong did, apparently, contain EPO. Armstrong denies every taking a performance enhancing drug.
Eddy Merckx is quoted as saying "if i had to take lances word or a journalists, i would take lances"
Can a seven year old sample really be valid?
nel said:
I have to say, I don't see the relevance or use of their revelations - he met the dope testing standards at the time, he's now retired, they can't realistically punish him, the tests can not be verified by other laboratories (for some reason). Seems like french mud-slinging and I hope they cocked up and get hit with a hefty lawsuit!
Do you think that they're right to do this to "clean up the sport" as they claim so nobly?
Reading about it this morning one thing that struck me was why all these revelations are now coming out after he's retired.
It's a very cheap shot by the French media if you ask me.
I very much doubt there's any high level sport which is entirely free of doping or dark art techniques (like blood spinning). Like any industry athletes/sportsmen/women try and stay ahead of the game and it's up to the regulators to catch up with them and keep changing the rules to suit.
At first I though "woow, thats serious stuff".... but then I read the post!
If he was clean at the time then it is fair. If the rules have subsequently changed then he can hardly be held accountable to this. As mentioned, I wonder if they kept the samples from so many other famous athletes - retest now with improved methods and humilliate them.....
Or not - the man is still an inspiration in my book....
If he was clean at the time then it is fair. If the rules have subsequently changed then he can hardly be held accountable to this. As mentioned, I wonder if they kept the samples from so many other famous athletes - retest now with improved methods and humilliate them.....
Or not - the man is still an inspiration in my book....
Rude-boy said:
Whilst I do not condone the use of performance enhancing drugs
Why not?
More drugs I say. One, it might make sport more interesting (i know, but forgive me my fantasies) and two, it will end all this did-he, didn't he rubbish.
And it will also open up a massive new revenue stream in the form of pharmecutical company sponsorship.
Everyone's a winner.
The day that a man on a push-bike can crack 200mph is the day I'll be renewing my Sky Sports subscription.
pablo said:
Can a seven year old sample really be valid?
Yep, from a scientific (and legal) point of view I agree with you - what evidence is there that the chemnical content of the urine samples hasn't changed with time?
However, the head of the lab doing the tests said that the result is positive because "the EPA proteins were detected in the urine samples so haven't degraded, but they could not be created by the ageing of the urine sample."
Rude-boy said:
Why not?
More drugs I say. One, it might make sport more interesting (i know, but forgive me my fantasies) and two, it will end all this did-he, didn't he rubbish.
If we’re going to do that perhaps we should have cases?
Stock
Modified
Prototype
Now you're talking!
slightly off topic...but back in the very late '70s when I was bike racing a mate of mine said..
"hey I'm gonna drink a can of cocoa cola before the next race..it's what all the Tour riders are doing..gives you more energy"
10 miles or so into the race he pulls out with stomach cramps.....someone forgot to mention to him the Tour riders let the cola go flat first before drinking it..D'oh !
"hey I'm gonna drink a can of cocoa cola before the next race..it's what all the Tour riders are doing..gives you more energy"
10 miles or so into the race he pulls out with stomach cramps.....someone forgot to mention to him the Tour riders let the cola go flat first before drinking it..D'oh !
6 years later...? WTF? I have this image of men in white lab coats among freezers full of vials with yellow liquid...
Who else's pee do they have in cold storage and why? Incredible.
"Francois, m'obtiennent la fiole du pipi de l'Américain, sie vous plait." (apologies for my rather hamfisted translation)
Taking the piss (pun intended)
ErnestM
Who else's pee do they have in cold storage and why? Incredible.
"Francois, m'obtiennent la fiole du pipi de l'Américain, sie vous plait." (apologies for my rather hamfisted translation)
Taking the piss (pun intended)
ErnestM
I saw a TV show about Lance and upon examination it was found that his % lung to frame size was about 15%greater than average and that also he had a longer thigh bone making him genetically perfect as a cyclist. He can generate 15% more oxygen during a day in the saddle and therefore a natural advantage over everyone else. I think the guys great personally
I wondered when the Frech would think up some trouble.
Firstly, I doubt if a six-year-old sample has any validity anyway - chemicals change.
Secondly, even if it is valid, if it wasn't illegal in 1999 they can't do him for it. It's like breaking a 30 limit before the limit is imposed.
They did this to the Le Mans 24 hours, effectively disqualifying ing all the non-French teams they couldn't beat until Peugeot won.
We should be more like them!!
Firstly, I doubt if a six-year-old sample has any validity anyway - chemicals change.
Secondly, even if it is valid, if it wasn't illegal in 1999 they can't do him for it. It's like breaking a 30 limit before the limit is imposed.
They did this to the Le Mans 24 hours, effectively disqualifying ing all the non-French teams they couldn't beat until Peugeot won.
We should be more like them!!
simpo two said:
I wondered when the Frech would think up some trouble.
Firstly, I doubt if a six-year-old sample has any validity anyway - chemicals change.
Secondly, even if it is valid, if it wasn't illegal in 1999 they can't do him for it. It's like breaking a 30 limit before the limit is imposed.
They did this to the Le Mans 24 hours, effectively disqualifying ing all the non-French teams they couldn't beat until Peugeot won.
We should be more like them!!
Well disagree here, the 7 years sample is indeed valid.
The samples were kept frozen for storage, for a start, secondly the decay of the sample could not explain the presence of the EPO molecule, it was there then.
Secondly saying that it wasn't illegal in 1999 is untrue. It wasn't TESTED in 1999, but taking performance enhancing drugs was illegal then.
As for the article, I don't think it is a cheap shot, it is journalism reporting facts.....
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