Brake binding? Looked like a Bond smokescreen…
Discussion
I’m close to going Basil Fawlty on my Mini.
It’s a Mini Countryman Cooper S, and has been a hoot but in the last year it’s been doing its best to get in the bad books.
Latest is that a few weeks back I had new discs and pads put on the front. I’ve been away for 2.5 weeks with work so it’s sat for that period.
Took it out for its first drive today and it’s making a clear mechanical scraping noise from the discs while also having some resistance and slightly pulling to the right.
No big deal I initially thought, it normally does this when sat for a while and a gentle drive and braking normally sorts it out.
Turns out, big deal actually. Made it a street away before the stench began and the absolute smokescreen behind. So had to pull over and there was this stuff fallen out after the turn, both onto the road and inside the rim.
Has taken an age to slowly come back, in short stints.
Does this look like brakes binding? Something else stuck in there getting ground down as it drives? Too many kids Monday clubs to get the wheel off and poke further but any thoughts would be welcomed.
It’s a Mini Countryman Cooper S, and has been a hoot but in the last year it’s been doing its best to get in the bad books.
Latest is that a few weeks back I had new discs and pads put on the front. I’ve been away for 2.5 weeks with work so it’s sat for that period.
Took it out for its first drive today and it’s making a clear mechanical scraping noise from the discs while also having some resistance and slightly pulling to the right.
No big deal I initially thought, it normally does this when sat for a while and a gentle drive and braking normally sorts it out.
Turns out, big deal actually. Made it a street away before the stench began and the absolute smokescreen behind. So had to pull over and there was this stuff fallen out after the turn, both onto the road and inside the rim.
Has taken an age to slowly come back, in short stints.
Does this look like brakes binding? Something else stuck in there getting ground down as it drives? Too many kids Monday clubs to get the wheel off and poke further but any thoughts would be welcomed.
Something's rubbing on the brakes, wheel or tyre. If it's anything other than the brakes it should be immediately obvious which it is. I wouldn't be surprised to find something rubbing on the tyre. In that case, that black residure will be rubber. Given the quantity, you'll probably see gouges on the tyre too.
If it was the brakes, there are two potential causes.
One is that the pads aren't able to retract back far enough to stop bearing on the discs. A clamped / damaged hydraulic hose can cause residual pressure leading to these symptoms. A sticking piston/slider (or miss-fitted pad) can cause it too.
The other is that the master cylinder isn't able to retract far enough to open up the port between the reservoir and the cylinder. That could be because the pedal is sticking, or the pushrod is adjusted too tight, or the cylinder is worn / gummed up. This type of problem usually ime only shows up when the brakes start getting hot and will keep applying the brakes harder and harder until eventually the car won't even roll. The brakes free up when they cool down. This doesn't quite fit your symptoms.
If it was the brakes, there are two potential causes.
One is that the pads aren't able to retract back far enough to stop bearing on the discs. A clamped / damaged hydraulic hose can cause residual pressure leading to these symptoms. A sticking piston/slider (or miss-fitted pad) can cause it too.
The other is that the master cylinder isn't able to retract far enough to open up the port between the reservoir and the cylinder. That could be because the pedal is sticking, or the pushrod is adjusted too tight, or the cylinder is worn / gummed up. This type of problem usually ime only shows up when the brakes start getting hot and will keep applying the brakes harder and harder until eventually the car won't even roll. The brakes free up when they cool down. This doesn't quite fit your symptoms.
You should be able to determine the source of that material by examining it, rubbing it between your fingers... if it is powder (brake dust) or crumb (tyre rubber).
Also the 'stench' would be very different; even if you're not familiar with the smell of hot/burning friction material, presumably you know burning rubber when you smell it?
Also the 'stench' would be very different; even if you're not familiar with the smell of hot/burning friction material, presumably you know burning rubber when you smell it?
Some brakes develop binding due to crappy designs being unable to cope with winter crap build up around near brake pad touch points with the caliper. This issue can occur not long after new delivery ie after a couple of wet/crappy UK winters use. Examples being any Fiat /Abarth with single piston sliding rear calipers, these hold the pads with a steel shim that is quite tight on the pads when new & clean , this tightness only gets worse with winter/brake crud build up and ends up holding the pads against the disk, at best wearing them out quickly at worst binding the brake on causing heat & disk/pad damage /boiling brake fluid etc. A fix is to strip, clean out the crud/replace pads/shim/disk as necessary on a rinse repeat basis. No idea if the Mini has that issue. Others with Alloy calipers and steel shims can suffer allow corrosion over time which reduces the clearances around the pads holding these against the disk , this problem usually takes a lot longer to happen, my Mitsi Evo 9 front Brembo's had this after 18 years use, noting the pistons/seals are still nice and free to move but the calipers lost the necessary clearance to allow the pads to move side to side. These needed some fettling to restore the caliper clearances .
As has been said, that is most definitely not a new disc. It's difficult to tell from the pictures, but the stuff in the second one looks like friction material, as it appears to have fibres in it. It almost looks like uncured friction material!
One thing's for sure - that vehicle is not safe to drive.
One thing's for sure - that vehicle is not safe to drive.
'Bond smokescreen'... 'absolute smokescreen'... the OP said. The more I think about this, the more I'm sure that's rubber crumb, fibres and all. Brakes wouldn't make that much smoke that quickly. I suspect something metal ... a left-behind tool... hose pincher? ...or a broken coil spring... is fouling the tyre ...or possibly that rubber debris is from the brake flexi...
Can't wait to know!
Can't wait to know!
Edited by TwinKam on Tuesday 28th March 12:39
I hate a thread without a resolution as much as the next person so here’s an interim update.
Bear with me, I had a 2.5week work trip to Australia and I’m not firing on all cylinders yet after just getting back.
Cutting straight to it, a spring has gone.
Last August the rears went, and the fronts were reported as being fine and no concern. Now in hindsight, past plonker me should just have had them all done at the same time, but hindsight’s great.
I noticed the rear having dropped as it set the alarm off, and the ‘stance’ was very Max Power as seen here with what it should look like and what it looked like after lowering itself.
Having thought about it, my neighbour did mention to my wife that he thought he’d seen my hazards going while I was away. When the rears dropped it set the alarm off, so clearly that happened again but no one heard the alarm. She unlocked and locked the car again and I thought nothing more of it over WhatsApp. The front having dropped is far less pronounced and I only noticed it walking back from picking the kids up and staring at the car with a ‘god damn you’ feeling.
So. The rubber which I thought was an odd red herring. It’s important I got out after making the tight right handed turn to return home and check the car otherwise I wouldn’t have seen the rubber (it’s not on the drive now and must have been ejected as the last stretches are straight lines pretty much). Having checked the inside of the arch it had rubbed off from the turn.
About it being unroadworthy? Absolutely hundred percent on that! The inside wall of the tyre appears to have taken the brunt of it and has worn through. Really wasn’t a long drive at all and the damage sustained is whopping. I shudder to think what would have happened if this occurred at high speed on the motorway or country road.
As for the state of the discs, that’s another matter to delve into!
So it’ll be getting recovered this week and new springs on both the fronts, and new tyre and then after the Easter hols (heading away) it’s getting part exchanged for something - it’s time is up.
Appreciate all the suggestions that were bounced around in here, it helps to get different perspectives and ideas to whittle it down.
By way of payment, here’s a cracking little pickup from Oz that made the street reverberate with its burble. I would gladly swap for it right now.
Bear with me, I had a 2.5week work trip to Australia and I’m not firing on all cylinders yet after just getting back.
Cutting straight to it, a spring has gone.
Last August the rears went, and the fronts were reported as being fine and no concern. Now in hindsight, past plonker me should just have had them all done at the same time, but hindsight’s great.
I noticed the rear having dropped as it set the alarm off, and the ‘stance’ was very Max Power as seen here with what it should look like and what it looked like after lowering itself.
Having thought about it, my neighbour did mention to my wife that he thought he’d seen my hazards going while I was away. When the rears dropped it set the alarm off, so clearly that happened again but no one heard the alarm. She unlocked and locked the car again and I thought nothing more of it over WhatsApp. The front having dropped is far less pronounced and I only noticed it walking back from picking the kids up and staring at the car with a ‘god damn you’ feeling.
So. The rubber which I thought was an odd red herring. It’s important I got out after making the tight right handed turn to return home and check the car otherwise I wouldn’t have seen the rubber (it’s not on the drive now and must have been ejected as the last stretches are straight lines pretty much). Having checked the inside of the arch it had rubbed off from the turn.
About it being unroadworthy? Absolutely hundred percent on that! The inside wall of the tyre appears to have taken the brunt of it and has worn through. Really wasn’t a long drive at all and the damage sustained is whopping. I shudder to think what would have happened if this occurred at high speed on the motorway or country road.
As for the state of the discs, that’s another matter to delve into!
So it’ll be getting recovered this week and new springs on both the fronts, and new tyre and then after the Easter hols (heading away) it’s getting part exchanged for something - it’s time is up.
Appreciate all the suggestions that were bounced around in here, it helps to get different perspectives and ideas to whittle it down.
By way of payment, here’s a cracking little pickup from Oz that made the street reverberate with its burble. I would gladly swap for it right now.
Edited by Goa'uld on Tuesday 28th March 16:24
Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff