Mk5 GTI Vs Mk6 GTI - Over all reliability
Discussion
Given the Mk5 has a timing belt (cheaper and easier to change than a chain) but also has a lower chain which I understand can cause issues? and has an earlier iteration of the DSG gearbox
But the the Mk6 has a timing chain which i understand can be problematic but a tensioner update can solve? And i assume has a more developed DGS box
Which one is the more reliable and wears higher mileage better?
Not sure what its like in the UK these days (as i have been living in Australia for a few years) But here in Australia Mk6 prices have held firm and Mk5 prices have gone up.... To the point where they are now around the same price for 07/08/09 cars.
by the way - I meant 'overall' not 'over all'
But the the Mk6 has a timing chain which i understand can be problematic but a tensioner update can solve? And i assume has a more developed DGS box
Which one is the more reliable and wears higher mileage better?
Not sure what its like in the UK these days (as i have been living in Australia for a few years) But here in Australia Mk6 prices have held firm and Mk5 prices have gone up.... To the point where they are now around the same price for 07/08/09 cars.
by the way - I meant 'overall' not 'over all'
Edited by richard300 on Monday 20th March 03:03
Early mk6 GTIs had timing chain issues - I think the revised chain was fitted from 2012 onwards.
However if you buy an earlier one and there’s no evidence of the chain being done get it done fitting the latest revision and you should be good.
Ultimately the mk5 GTI is pretty reliable but as with all cars suffers with age with parts deteriorating.
My choice would be the MK6 as I think the interior has not aged anywhere near as badly as the mk5 and generally the material quality is much nicer.
However if you buy an earlier one and there’s no evidence of the chain being done get it done fitting the latest revision and you should be good.
Ultimately the mk5 GTI is pretty reliable but as with all cars suffers with age with parts deteriorating.
My choice would be the MK6 as I think the interior has not aged anywhere near as badly as the mk5 and generally the material quality is much nicer.
MK6 for would be my choice, unless you prefer the looks of the MK5.
Better built, less prone to rust, torquier engine low down (more tractable in traffic), less crashy suspension, MUCH better traction control (XDS diff) and more options available, such as the excellent Dynaudio pack.
Nope, MK6 and MK5 uses the same DQ250 gearbox. Like anything else, it's only as reliable as the last person who looked after it.
Chains are what they are. They are consumable and nearly all German cars have them, so you'll just have to accept the risk, or choose a different brand that is cambelt only.
The EA888 engine uses a link chain, which is more prone to wear compared to a normal roller chain, so bear that in mind. If you have VCDS, you can track the wear rate, so no dramas. Just have to put money aside for a chain job at some point.
Early EA888s also used low tension piston rings, so oil consumption can be high, as can blow by, which exacerbates carbon fouling of the intake ports/valves.
The MK5 is no more or less reliable. Just a few common issues which are well documented.
If you are too risk averse and scared of things breaking, I would buy something else, or increase the budget and get a MK7.5.
Better built, less prone to rust, torquier engine low down (more tractable in traffic), less crashy suspension, MUCH better traction control (XDS diff) and more options available, such as the excellent Dynaudio pack.
Nope, MK6 and MK5 uses the same DQ250 gearbox. Like anything else, it's only as reliable as the last person who looked after it.
Chains are what they are. They are consumable and nearly all German cars have them, so you'll just have to accept the risk, or choose a different brand that is cambelt only.
The EA888 engine uses a link chain, which is more prone to wear compared to a normal roller chain, so bear that in mind. If you have VCDS, you can track the wear rate, so no dramas. Just have to put money aside for a chain job at some point.
Early EA888s also used low tension piston rings, so oil consumption can be high, as can blow by, which exacerbates carbon fouling of the intake ports/valves.
The MK5 is no more or less reliable. Just a few common issues which are well documented.
If you are too risk averse and scared of things breaking, I would buy something else, or increase the budget and get a MK7.5.
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 31st March 10:05
rottenegg said:
MK6 for would be my choice, unless you prefer the looks of the MK5.
Better built, less prone to rust, torquier engine low down (more tractable in traffic), less crashy suspension, MUCH better traction control (XDS diff) and more options available, such as the excellent Dynaudio pack.
Nope, MK6 and MK5 uses the same DQ250 gearbox. Like anything else, it's only as reliable as the last person who looked after it.
Chains are what they are. They are consumable and nearly all German cars have them, so you'll just have to accept the risk, or choose a different brand that is cambelt only.
The EA888 engine uses a link chain, which is more prone to wear compared to a normal roller chain, so bear that in mind. If you have VCDS, you can track the wear rate, so no dramas. Just have to put money aside for a chain job at some point.
Early EA888s also used low tension piston rings, so oil consumption can be high, as can blow by, which exacerbates carbon fouling of the intake ports/valves.
The MK5 is no more or less reliable. Just a few common issues which are well documented.
If you are too risk averse and scared of things breaking, I would buy something else, or increase the budget and get a MK7.5.
This is the latest thread I can find, and you know a bit about these. Better built, less prone to rust, torquier engine low down (more tractable in traffic), less crashy suspension, MUCH better traction control (XDS diff) and more options available, such as the excellent Dynaudio pack.
Nope, MK6 and MK5 uses the same DQ250 gearbox. Like anything else, it's only as reliable as the last person who looked after it.
Chains are what they are. They are consumable and nearly all German cars have them, so you'll just have to accept the risk, or choose a different brand that is cambelt only.
The EA888 engine uses a link chain, which is more prone to wear compared to a normal roller chain, so bear that in mind. If you have VCDS, you can track the wear rate, so no dramas. Just have to put money aside for a chain job at some point.
Early EA888s also used low tension piston rings, so oil consumption can be high, as can blow by, which exacerbates carbon fouling of the intake ports/valves.
The MK5 is no more or less reliable. Just a few common issues which are well documented.
If you are too risk averse and scared of things breaking, I would buy something else, or increase the budget and get a MK7.5.
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 31st March 10:05
Looking for information on mine. It does use oil lol.
2007, 57 plate, bought around 18 months ago on 101k, now on 140k, been totally reliable, but does use oil.
Bought it after hating a new MK8 lol, I really hated that car, never been happy about 17 year olds writing a car off before lol.
It was a chance, spur of the moment buy, from a lady owner, looks bog standard in every way, but it is so damn quick.
How much power can you get from a remap? It is the only thing that can be done, everything looks bog.
Belle427 said:
Depends on the tuner really but 40 to 50 bhp gain is common from a stage 1 remap.
Which would put it about the same as our Mountune 2.5 ST, around 260 bhp ? But it beats the ST away all the way from standing start.Need to rolling road it methinks.
On the airfield, it went side by side with an E46 M3, no idea of spec, and crawled away once the limiters came into play, a Cayman owner went home lol, again no idea what it was running, or the drivers gonads, but he did not want to play anymore.
No idea who did anything to it, there is nothing visual, and it does not break, the lady selling it never mentioned a thing.
My son picked it up, called me, and said " there is something wrong with this car" Showed me when he got here. She did though, have it serviced and the timing belt done, a week before selling it, nice of her lol.
Best 2 grand I have spent for a while. Fun per buck, it is right up there.
anyoldcardave said:
rottenegg said:
MK6 for would be my choice, unless you prefer the looks of the MK5.
Better built, less prone to rust, torquier engine low down (more tractable in traffic), less crashy suspension, MUCH better traction control (XDS diff) and more options available, such as the excellent Dynaudio pack.
Nope, MK6 and MK5 uses the same DQ250 gearbox. Like anything else, it's only as reliable as the last person who looked after it.
Chains are what they are. They are consumable and nearly all German cars have them, so you'll just have to accept the risk, or choose a different brand that is cambelt only.
The EA888 engine uses a link chain, which is more prone to wear compared to a normal roller chain, so bear that in mind. If you have VCDS, you can track the wear rate, so no dramas. Just have to put money aside for a chain job at some point.
Early EA888s also used low tension piston rings, so oil consumption can be high, as can blow by, which exacerbates carbon fouling of the intake ports/valves.
The MK5 is no more or less reliable. Just a few common issues which are well documented.
If you are too risk averse and scared of things breaking, I would buy something else, or increase the budget and get a MK7.5.
This is the latest thread I can find, and you know a bit about these. Better built, less prone to rust, torquier engine low down (more tractable in traffic), less crashy suspension, MUCH better traction control (XDS diff) and more options available, such as the excellent Dynaudio pack.
Nope, MK6 and MK5 uses the same DQ250 gearbox. Like anything else, it's only as reliable as the last person who looked after it.
Chains are what they are. They are consumable and nearly all German cars have them, so you'll just have to accept the risk, or choose a different brand that is cambelt only.
The EA888 engine uses a link chain, which is more prone to wear compared to a normal roller chain, so bear that in mind. If you have VCDS, you can track the wear rate, so no dramas. Just have to put money aside for a chain job at some point.
Early EA888s also used low tension piston rings, so oil consumption can be high, as can blow by, which exacerbates carbon fouling of the intake ports/valves.
The MK5 is no more or less reliable. Just a few common issues which are well documented.
If you are too risk averse and scared of things breaking, I would buy something else, or increase the budget and get a MK7.5.
Edited by rottenegg on Friday 31st March 10:05
Looking for information on mine. It does use oil lol.
2007, 57 plate, bought around 18 months ago on 101k, now on 140k, been totally reliable, but does use oil.
Bought it after hating a new MK8 lol, I really hated that car, never been happy about 17 year olds writing a car off before lol.
It was a chance, spur of the moment buy, from a lady owner, looks bog standard in every way, but it is so damn quick.
How much power can you get from a remap? It is the only thing that can be done, everything looks bog.
Could be anything. Worn out turbo bearings, stuck piston rings, cracked pistons (common with aggressive remaps), worn out valve guides, broken PCV etc etc.
I would just stick some good quality 5W40 in it and just enjoy it. As you say, best 2K you've ever spent
Sign up to MK5GolfGTI co.uk as it's more model specific.
rottenegg said:
How much oil is it using? My old Edition 30 used about a litre over 4000 miles, so those engines do use a bit. If it's a litre every 1000 miles, that isn't good.
Could be anything. Worn out turbo bearings, stuck piston rings, cracked pistons (common with aggressive remaps), worn out valve guides, broken PCV etc etc.
I would just stick some good quality 5W40 in it and just enjoy it. As you say, best 2K you've ever spent
Sign up to MK5GolfGTI co.uk as it's more model specific.
It does use oil, between my son and I, done close to 40k in it, never measured how much, but not alarming, I just by 20 litres at a time when the E site has a discount code lol. Could be anything. Worn out turbo bearings, stuck piston rings, cracked pistons (common with aggressive remaps), worn out valve guides, broken PCV etc etc.
I would just stick some good quality 5W40 in it and just enjoy it. As you say, best 2K you've ever spent
Sign up to MK5GolfGTI co.uk as it's more model specific.
If it blows up it will get fixed, or whatever needs fixing will get done, so far only 1 issue, that did not stop it, and I cannot remember what is was, a single part fixed it, which very luckily, was the exact same part on a scrap passat wagon that came through a main agent.
Still no idea on the remap, it certainly has one, if I were to guess, which I am, it is closer to 300 than 250, but I really do not have a clue, it gives much more powerful and newer machinery a very good run for the money lol.
A modern focus ST, supposed 250 out of the box? gets nowhere near it. It beats our Mountune 2.5 ST, and is a nicer thing to drive at speed, pees all over our Carlton GSI, expected lol, but that is the only car that can prise the VW keys from my son lol, and only because he can drift it.
Will look at that website, thank you,def the best bang for buck, and the most reliable.
anyoldcardave said:
rottenegg said:
How much oil is it using? My old Edition 30 used about a litre over 4000 miles, so those engines do use a bit. If it's a litre every 1000 miles, that isn't good.
Could be anything. Worn out turbo bearings, stuck piston rings, cracked pistons (common with aggressive remaps), worn out valve guides, broken PCV etc etc.
I would just stick some good quality 5W40 in it and just enjoy it. As you say, best 2K you've ever spent
Sign up to MK5GolfGTI co.uk as it's more model specific.
It does use oil, between my son and I, done close to 40k in it, never measured how much, but not alarming, I just by 20 litres at a time when the E site has a discount code lol. Could be anything. Worn out turbo bearings, stuck piston rings, cracked pistons (common with aggressive remaps), worn out valve guides, broken PCV etc etc.
I would just stick some good quality 5W40 in it and just enjoy it. As you say, best 2K you've ever spent
Sign up to MK5GolfGTI co.uk as it's more model specific.
If it blows up it will get fixed, or whatever needs fixing will get done, so far only 1 issue, that did not stop it, and I cannot remember what is was, a single part fixed it, which very luckily, was the exact same part on a scrap passat wagon that came through a main agent.
Still no idea on the remap, it certainly has one, if I were to guess, which I am, it is closer to 300 than 250, but I really do not have a clue, it gives much more powerful and newer machinery a very good run for the money lol.
A modern focus ST, supposed 250 out of the box? gets nowhere near it. It beats our Mountune 2.5 ST, and is a nicer thing to drive at speed, pees all over our Carlton GSI, expected lol, but that is the only car that can prise the VW keys from my son lol, and only because he can drift it.
Will look at that website, thank you,def the best bang for buck, and the most reliable.
Better quality oil than the 0W30 crap dealers pour in, and the filters are exactly the same Mahle/knecht, just minus the VAG branding.It won't blow up. Just keep on top of the maintenance. Drop the sump and check for debris/sludge in the oil pick up pipe which is a VERY common issue with the EA113 engine, largely due to the stupid oil service intervals. Petrol DI chokes the oil with soot, so 3K oil changes is a must really if you want some life out of it.
You will also be wanting to check the high pressure fuel pump's cam follower for wear as that's another common failure. If it wears through, it takes out the inlet cam, landing you with a £500+ bill for a new cam + fitting costs.
If it's a GTI with the K03 turbo, the remap will be closer to 240-250hp. 300 is not possible from that turbo. Only the K04 turbo engines fitted to the Edition 30, Golf 6R, S3, Cupra K1 etc can do 300hp with a remap.
Glad you're enjoying it! The regular GTI always did feel sprightly for it's standard power and remapped, they feel properly quick. The Focus 2.5 is a heavy old thing with a heavy old Volvo engine in it and didn't feel as fast as they should
The Carlton GSI was a weapon. I used to love the fast Vauxhalls! Not as much of a weapon as the Lotus Carlton though, lol.
rottenegg said:
anyoldcardave said:
rottenegg said:
How much oil is it using? My old Edition 30 used about a litre over 4000 miles, so those engines do use a bit. If it's a litre every 1000 miles, that isn't good.
Could be anything. Worn out turbo bearings, stuck piston rings, cracked pistons (common with aggressive remaps), worn out valve guides, broken PCV etc etc.
I would just stick some good quality 5W40 in it and just enjoy it. As you say, best 2K you've ever spent
Sign up to MK5GolfGTI co.uk as it's more model specific.
It does use oil, between my son and I, done close to 40k in it, never measured how much, but not alarming, I just by 20 litres at a time when the E site has a discount code lol. Could be anything. Worn out turbo bearings, stuck piston rings, cracked pistons (common with aggressive remaps), worn out valve guides, broken PCV etc etc.
I would just stick some good quality 5W40 in it and just enjoy it. As you say, best 2K you've ever spent
Sign up to MK5GolfGTI co.uk as it's more model specific.
If it blows up it will get fixed, or whatever needs fixing will get done, so far only 1 issue, that did not stop it, and I cannot remember what is was, a single part fixed it, which very luckily, was the exact same part on a scrap passat wagon that came through a main agent.
Still no idea on the remap, it certainly has one, if I were to guess, which I am, it is closer to 300 than 250, but I really do not have a clue, it gives much more powerful and newer machinery a very good run for the money lol.
A modern focus ST, supposed 250 out of the box? gets nowhere near it. It beats our Mountune 2.5 ST, and is a nicer thing to drive at speed, pees all over our Carlton GSI, expected lol, but that is the only car that can prise the VW keys from my son lol, and only because he can drift it.
Will look at that website, thank you,def the best bang for buck, and the most reliable.
Better quality oil than the 0W30 crap dealers pour in, and the filters are exactly the same Mahle/knecht, just minus the VAG branding.It won't blow up. Just keep on top of the maintenance. Drop the sump and check for debris/sludge in the oil pick up pipe which is a VERY common issue with the EA113 engine, largely due to the stupid oil service intervals. Petrol DI chokes the oil with soot, so 3K oil changes is a must really if you want some life out of it.
You will also be wanting to check the high pressure fuel pump's cam follower for wear as that's another common failure. If it wears through, it takes out the inlet cam, landing you with a £500+ bill for a new cam + fitting costs.
If it's a GTI with the K03 turbo, the remap will be closer to 240-250hp. 300 is not possible from that turbo. Only the K04 turbo engines fitted to the Edition 30, Golf 6R, S3, Cupra K1 etc can do 300hp with a remap.
Glad you're enjoying it! The regular GTI always did feel sprightly for it's standard power and remapped, they feel properly quick. The Focus 2.5 is a heavy old thing with a heavy old Volvo engine in it and didn't feel as fast as they should
The Carlton GSI was a weapon. I used to love the fast Vauxhalls! Not as much of a weapon as the Lotus Carlton though, lol.
It was a Lotus Carlton that led to the GSI search, far less of them, I think less than 10%, Having use of an LC for a couple of weeks, a long test drive if you like, not the initial cost,that is what it is, but all the others, and parts scarcity, do not make them suitable to use the way we use them.
All I could think of when my son was drifting it, was this will really hurt if it goes wrong or goes bang, racking up miles is not the done thing with them really.
You could say the same with the GSI rarity I suppose, but far less money involved lol.
My Edition 30 burnt a fair bit too, that had an r tech stage 1 map on it and was a very quick car.
Think it’s a proven 300 Bhp with r tech.
I wish I’d kept that car but decided to let it go when the paint started to get lacquer peel and ideally needed a pair of front wings.
Wish I’d just kept it and ran it as it was but my ocd hated the paintwork.
Think it’s a proven 300 Bhp with r tech.
I wish I’d kept that car but decided to let it go when the paint started to get lacquer peel and ideally needed a pair of front wings.
Wish I’d just kept it and ran it as it was but my ocd hated the paintwork.
On a MK5, the standard GTI has a smaller K03 turbo that does feel really punchy in the mid range. Not a lot of top end power from just a map but they can probably get close to 300lbft in the mid range. Either way they always feel nice and responsive in day today driving and the mid range can make them feel like they will make big power when you rev them out (they don’t).
Edition 30 has a bigger K04 turbo and the top end on that is hilarious when tuned. With standard injectors and turbo (you will need sports cat/decat, intercooler, intake) you can get to 380bhp and 400+lbft which is crazy for a car that comes from the factory with something like 220/220. The trade with the bigger turbo is that they will always feel a bit flatter right at the bottom end, and of course with any FWD car with that much torque you need to be sensible how you use the performance.
Lots of oil leaks can be fixed with simple things like rocker cover gaskets, seals around the engine like the vacuum pump and also the sump. As a minimum if your car is using oil you should clean the engine with brake cleaner and then monitor to establish where it is coming from. May be an easy and cheap fix. If doing the sump, clean the pickup at the same time. Google cam follower and do that on any car without history of it. Easy.
On the original question of MK5 vs MK6 they are all good cars. MK7 too. Cheap and cheerful MK5 GTI (sub £3k) or early MK7 with Performance Pack for the LSD is where I would go. A tuned Edition 30 is a massive step up in straight line performance and will be much faster than something like an E46 M3, again in a straight line.
If you are an E46 M3 owner don’t take that the wrong way, just different cars for different things.
Edition 30 has a bigger K04 turbo and the top end on that is hilarious when tuned. With standard injectors and turbo (you will need sports cat/decat, intercooler, intake) you can get to 380bhp and 400+lbft which is crazy for a car that comes from the factory with something like 220/220. The trade with the bigger turbo is that they will always feel a bit flatter right at the bottom end, and of course with any FWD car with that much torque you need to be sensible how you use the performance.
Lots of oil leaks can be fixed with simple things like rocker cover gaskets, seals around the engine like the vacuum pump and also the sump. As a minimum if your car is using oil you should clean the engine with brake cleaner and then monitor to establish where it is coming from. May be an easy and cheap fix. If doing the sump, clean the pickup at the same time. Google cam follower and do that on any car without history of it. Easy.
On the original question of MK5 vs MK6 they are all good cars. MK7 too. Cheap and cheerful MK5 GTI (sub £3k) or early MK7 with Performance Pack for the LSD is where I would go. A tuned Edition 30 is a massive step up in straight line performance and will be much faster than something like an E46 M3, again in a straight line.
If you are an E46 M3 owner don’t take that the wrong way, just different cars for different things.
Edited by Tommie38 on Friday 9th August 10:36
Yeah the Edition 30 is noticeably laggier feeling than the GTI, but saying that....as standard.....peak torque of 224lb/ft arrives at 2250rpm, which is quite impressive when you compare it to the R32's peak of 236lbft, which arrives 250rpm later. Pretty impressive for a 20 year old 4 cylinder engine design with VVT only on the intake cam.
To get 380hp you need a lot of supporting mods, and even then that figure is optimistic. 360 is the most I've seen from an Edition 30 with everything thrown at it. There are a couple of well known tuners equally well known to dish out optimistic numbers, but I'll leave it there
Borg Warner themselves only rate the K04 to 330hp max, so beyond that you are essentially pushing the turbo way out of it's efficiency zone and turning it into a massive hair drier, so you need a massive intercooler to calm the intake temps down. Interestingly enough, 330hp is also the limit of the factory airbox flow rate on the GTI/ED30.
Gen 3 EA888 is the engine to have. Variable lift and duration on both cams, so it can make much better use of the boost thrown at it, but you're into late MK7 and MK8 to get that level of fruitiness unfortunately.
I still say the MK6 is the better option between it and the MK5. Perhaps not as subjectively nice looking, but build quality wise, it's leagues ahead.
Funnily enough, my brother in law has a mint E46 M3 and when I had my tuned ED30, there wasn't much in it, in a straight line, as you say. Engine noise and handling go to the E46 though!
To get 380hp you need a lot of supporting mods, and even then that figure is optimistic. 360 is the most I've seen from an Edition 30 with everything thrown at it. There are a couple of well known tuners equally well known to dish out optimistic numbers, but I'll leave it there
Borg Warner themselves only rate the K04 to 330hp max, so beyond that you are essentially pushing the turbo way out of it's efficiency zone and turning it into a massive hair drier, so you need a massive intercooler to calm the intake temps down. Interestingly enough, 330hp is also the limit of the factory airbox flow rate on the GTI/ED30.
Gen 3 EA888 is the engine to have. Variable lift and duration on both cams, so it can make much better use of the boost thrown at it, but you're into late MK7 and MK8 to get that level of fruitiness unfortunately.
I still say the MK6 is the better option between it and the MK5. Perhaps not as subjectively nice looking, but build quality wise, it's leagues ahead.
Funnily enough, my brother in law has a mint E46 M3 and when I had my tuned ED30, there wasn't much in it, in a straight line, as you say. Engine noise and handling go to the E46 though!
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