small/medium estates - swimming against the crossover tide
Discussion
Looking at Golf-sized estates, hoping to find good value, as this type of car is relatively unfashionable compared to crossovers now. Everything has grown bigger these days, and this size of car is now as long as a Mk1 Mondeo estate.
What's good in this class? I'm looking for a manual petrol car, around 2018-ish, for £12-13k. Don't mind "poverty spec"
The Golf Mk7.5 estate has a massive square boot area but it's pretty dull to look at. The Leon ST is mechanically similar to the Golf, but better looking and cheaper. Astra estate seems very cheap relative to the competition. Renault Megane tourer is good looking (to my eyes) and reasonably priced, but petrol ones seem pretty rare on the used market.
I also briefly considered an Auris hybrid estate, but the prices on these are ridiculous - probably £4-5k more expensive than other comparable age/mileage estate cars.
What do I need to watch out for when buying used? Do Golfs and Leons still have a belt driven engine, which is an expensive service item at around 4-5 years old?
What's good in this class? I'm looking for a manual petrol car, around 2018-ish, for £12-13k. Don't mind "poverty spec"
The Golf Mk7.5 estate has a massive square boot area but it's pretty dull to look at. The Leon ST is mechanically similar to the Golf, but better looking and cheaper. Astra estate seems very cheap relative to the competition. Renault Megane tourer is good looking (to my eyes) and reasonably priced, but petrol ones seem pretty rare on the used market.
I also briefly considered an Auris hybrid estate, but the prices on these are ridiculous - probably £4-5k more expensive than other comparable age/mileage estate cars.
What do I need to watch out for when buying used? Do Golfs and Leons still have a belt driven engine, which is an expensive service item at around 4-5 years old?
As you have mentioned, Astra is very good value.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302164...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302164...
Thanks for all your responses. I appreciate this is a very dull class of car, and the first owners of most of these cars were probably company drivers who wouldn’t have treated their car with a whole lot of love. Have only looked online so far. Haven’t been out to look at anything in the metal.
Any love for the french cars? Megane sports tourer looks good, and the 308 SW has a massive boot and that ridiculous small steering wheel and was ECOTY when it was launched
Any love for the french cars? Megane sports tourer looks good, and the 308 SW has a massive boot and that ridiculous small steering wheel and was ECOTY when it was launched
vikingaero said:
For value in the VeeDub camp, what about equivalent Skodas and Seats?
Thanks. I already mentioned the Leon ST in my original post. It’s a good looking car and good value. Anything to be wary of, with the 1.4T or 1.5T petrol engine? (apart from the expensive cambelt change) GreatGranny said:
As you have mentioned, Astra is very good value.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302164...
Yes. Good value. It’s a boring looking car, and I’m not a massive fan of the Vauxhall brand image, but I can appreciate it is very good value, and (presumably) well-proven and reliable. There’s also a 1.6T with 200bhp which is a pretty cool sleeper estate. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302164...
RizzoTheRat said:
V60 is a similar size but a chunk more cash.
I like the styling of the V60, and Volvo has a great tradition of estate cars, and presumably the seats are super-comfortable. But the prices are very strong! Up at the same levels as a 3-series or Audi A4, and I’d probably rather have one of those over a Volvo. spreadsheet monkey said:
.... (apart from the expensive cambelt change) ...
Having seen all the stories of cars with dodgy timing chains (looking at you Jaguar, BMW and MINI) I'd much rather get a car with an easy to change belt than one with a buried chain that needs changing nearly as frequently.Truckosaurus said:
spreadsheet monkey said:
.... (apart from the expensive cambelt change) ...
Having seen all the stories of cars with dodgy timing chains (looking at you Jaguar, BMW and MINI) I'd much rather get a car with an easy to change belt than one with a buried chain that needs changing nearly as frequently.I tried the Astra and was surprised at how well it drove.
Like you though wasn't all that sure on the Vauxhall badge.
Went Corolla Tourer in the end, 1.2T petrol rather than the ££expensive hybrid.
A couple of grand above your budget but felt light years ahead in terms of modernness/build/etc and although it's a bobby-basic Icon spec to look at it has the tech pack so all the gadgets you could need, plus 10 year warranty. Full independent suspension on the Corolla, who knew??, so great ride too.
Like you though wasn't all that sure on the Vauxhall badge.
Went Corolla Tourer in the end, 1.2T petrol rather than the ££expensive hybrid.
A couple of grand above your budget but felt light years ahead in terms of modernness/build/etc and although it's a bobby-basic Icon spec to look at it has the tech pack so all the gadgets you could need, plus 10 year warranty. Full independent suspension on the Corolla, who knew??, so great ride too.
I've had one of these for nearly 4 years now, as my long distance family car (I use an EV as my round town daily) and load carrier.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301143...
It's been faultless, is very comfortable, cheap to run, and is great fun to drive. It's a bit like a warm hatch with a nice TC auto gearbox (flappy paddles) and a massive, and I mean massive boot. Hugely practical, and has the Honda "magic seats" in the back which are pretty handy (I can flip them up and put an adult mountain bike in there). I've got a 6'2" son who regularly sits in the back with no problems, in fact we drove it to Montenegro and back last summer with him in the back, other teen child alongside, parents in front and plenty of luggage. Handled the trip with aplomb.
I know the one I posted is a bit over your budget, but I expect there are some out there a bit cheaper (I just hit search and posted the newest one as I know they were discontinued a couple of years back - like you say in favour of wretched crossovers and SUVs in the Honda range).
I'll be sad the day it dies because I know there's not much else like it out there any more.
EDIT: Here's one in budget, and a manual if that's your preference. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301073...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301143...
It's been faultless, is very comfortable, cheap to run, and is great fun to drive. It's a bit like a warm hatch with a nice TC auto gearbox (flappy paddles) and a massive, and I mean massive boot. Hugely practical, and has the Honda "magic seats" in the back which are pretty handy (I can flip them up and put an adult mountain bike in there). I've got a 6'2" son who regularly sits in the back with no problems, in fact we drove it to Montenegro and back last summer with him in the back, other teen child alongside, parents in front and plenty of luggage. Handled the trip with aplomb.
I know the one I posted is a bit over your budget, but I expect there are some out there a bit cheaper (I just hit search and posted the newest one as I know they were discontinued a couple of years back - like you say in favour of wretched crossovers and SUVs in the Honda range).
I'll be sad the day it dies because I know there's not much else like it out there any more.
EDIT: Here's one in budget, and a manual if that's your preference. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301073...
Edited by Bannock on Monday 13th March 15:27
1.6T Astra SRI 200:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302144...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303044...
1.5T Focus Titanium X 180:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301253...
2.0T V60 R Design 190:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301273...
1.8T Leon FR Technology 180:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301273...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302144...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303044...
1.5T Focus Titanium X 180:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301253...
2.0T V60 R Design 190:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301273...
1.8T Leon FR Technology 180:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301273...
I had a mk7 Golf. It was the GT TDi with the 150hp engine. Nice enough car, handled well and didn’t mind been driven briskly. More than enough space in the boot but obviously being based on a hatch the cabin space is regular Golf size. I think in years to come the mk7 will be remembered as peak Golf, they just do everything so well.
If you’re considering one check for leaks! Mine had the pan roof which leaked, also the drain in the tailgate fails flooding the spare wheel well and the seals around the door speakers go letting water into the footwells. Germanic build quality for you there!
If you’re considering one check for leaks! Mine had the pan roof which leaked, also the drain in the tailgate fails flooding the spare wheel well and the seals around the door speakers go letting water into the footwells. Germanic build quality for you there!
spreadsheet monkey said:
Looking at Golf-sized estates, hoping to find good value, as this type of car is relatively unfashionable compared to crossovers now. Everything has grown bigger these days, and this size of car is now as long as a Mk1 Mondeo estate.
What's good in this class? I'm looking for a manual petrol car, around 2018-ish, for £12-13k. Don't mind "poverty spec"
The Golf Mk7.5 estate has a massive square boot area but it's pretty dull to look at. The Leon ST is mechanically similar to the Golf, but better looking and cheaper. Astra estate seems very cheap relative to the competition. Renault Megane tourer is good looking (to my eyes) and reasonably priced, but petrol ones seem pretty rare on the used market.
I also briefly considered an Auris hybrid estate, but the prices on these are ridiculous - probably £4-5k more expensive than other comparable age/mileage estate cars.
What do I need to watch out for when buying used? Do Golfs and Leons still have a belt driven engine, which is an expensive service item at around 4-5 years old?
Golfs, Leons (and Skoda Octavias, a little bigger I guess) all come in estate format and are essentially the same thing underneath. What's good in this class? I'm looking for a manual petrol car, around 2018-ish, for £12-13k. Don't mind "poverty spec"
The Golf Mk7.5 estate has a massive square boot area but it's pretty dull to look at. The Leon ST is mechanically similar to the Golf, but better looking and cheaper. Astra estate seems very cheap relative to the competition. Renault Megane tourer is good looking (to my eyes) and reasonably priced, but petrol ones seem pretty rare on the used market.
I also briefly considered an Auris hybrid estate, but the prices on these are ridiculous - probably £4-5k more expensive than other comparable age/mileage estate cars.
What do I need to watch out for when buying used? Do Golfs and Leons still have a belt driven engine, which is an expensive service item at around 4-5 years old?
The 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines are the EA211 and are belt driven. The interval for replacing them as listed in the owners handbooks is 133,000 miles with no time limit, so minimal worry. The EA211 is a good engine - decent power and torque for the size, warms up very quickly and very frugal for a petrol. They don't take well to being remapped, there have been lots of reports of blown turbos, so just leave them stock and don't mess about with them. Also, I'd avoid the newer 1.5 TSI EVO engines, there have been a few documented issues with juddering and jerkiness, though there was a recall to fix this - making sure the recall has been carried out is therefore essential if you don't want any headaches.
The 1.8 and 2.0 TSI engines are the EA888 (also found in various hot versions like the GTI, R, Cupra, vRS, etc) which is chain driven. Water pump might want changing around 100k or so. These respond very well to remaps and big power numbers can be had from them.
Oil change intervals for both are every 9000 miles or annually. Lifespan for both these engines seems to be around 200k.
As someone else mentioned, avoid any of these models that have panoramic roofs, as they are known to leak - my old Audi A3 had this feature, it was a pain in the arse!
Golfs are very popular for some reason, your money will go much further with a Seat Leon as you mentioned, that's what I'd pick.
1.8 TSI FR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212012...
1.4 TSI Xcellence
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303135...
Skoda Octavia 1.4 TSI Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301253...
The 1.3 TCe in the Megane is a very good engine and is chain driven. They can be sensitive to oil quality and missed services, so try and find one with a full Renault dealership history.
Megane 1.3 TCe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301203...
With the Astra, there have been a few issues with the 1.4i Turbo engines with low speed pre-ignition (booting it at low rpm) which can properly knacker the engine. I think there have been recalls to address the problem, with various degrees of success. I'd try and find a 1.6 turbo engined variant, they are much more reliable, like this one. Decent power too.
Vauxhall Astra 1.6T SRi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303044...
Other ideas
Honda Civic 1.8 i-VTEC Tourer - these engines are pretty much bombproof
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302023...
Fiat Tipo 1.4 T-Jet - these motors also use a timing belt that needs replacing every 72,000 miles or 5 years, so this might be due one if it hasn't been done yet. Otherwise very reliable.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302154...
Kia Ceed 1.0 ISG - the turbo Kappa engine in these is very good in terms of reliability, but the radiator in some models can be prone to damage that can lead to overheating, but is quite rare and an easy fix.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302214...
Edit: Another couple of things - the Ford 1.0 and 1.5 Ecoboost engines and the Peugeot/Citroen 1.2 PureTech engines use this wet cambelt design, replacement cost is at least £1000 when they need replacing at 100k or 10 years. Also, if you use the wrong type of oil, the belt can disintegrate, the bits of disintegrated belt then block the oil pickups and then you have a dead engine. They are ok I reckon as long as you use the correct oil (so full dealer service history) and get shot of them well before 10 years or 100k.
Edited by georgeyboy12345 on Tuesday 14th March 22:12
georgeyboy12345 said:
Golfs, Leons (and Skoda Octavias, a little bigger I guess) all come in estate format and are essentially the same thing underneath.
The 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines are the EA211 and are belt driven. The interval for replacing them as listed in the owners handbooks is 133,000 miles with no time limit, so minimal worry. The EA211 is a good engine - decent power and torque for the size, warms up very quickly and very frugal for a petrol. They don't take well to being remapped, there have been lots of reports of blown turbos, so just leave them stock and don't mess about with them. Also, I'd avoid the newer 1.5 TSI EVO engines, there have been a few documented issues with juddering and jerkiness, though there was a recall to fix this - making sure the recall has been carried out is therefore essential if you don't want any headaches.
The 1.8 and 2.0 TSI engines are the EA888 (also found in various hot versions like the GTI, R, Cupra, vRS, etc) which is chain driven. Water pump might want changing around 100k or so. These respond very well to remaps and big power numbers can be had from them.
Oil change intervals for both are every 9000 miles or annually. Lifespan for both these engines seems to be around 200k.
As someone else mentioned, avoid any of these models that have panoramic roofs, as they are known to leak - my old Audi A3 had this feature, it was a pain in the arse!
Golfs are very popular for some reason, your money will go much further with a Seat Leon as you mentioned, that's what I'd pick.
1.8 TSI FR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212012...
1.4 TSI Xcellence
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303135...
Skoda Octavia 1.4 TSI Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301253...
The 1.3 TCe in the Megane is a very good engine and is chain driven. They can be sensitive to oil quality and missed services, so try and find one with a full Renault dealership history.
Megane 1.3 TCe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301203...
With the Astra, there have been a few issues with the 1.4i Turbo engines with low speed pre-ignition (booting it at low rpm) which can properly knacker the engine. I think there have been recalls to address the problem, with various degrees of success. I'd try and find a 1.6 turbo engined variant, they are much more reliable, like this one. Decent power too.
Vauxhall Astra 1.6T SRi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303044...
Other ideas
Honda Civic 1.8 i-VTEC Tourer - these engines are pretty much bombproof
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302023...
Fiat Tipo 1.4 T-Jet - these motors also use a timing belt that needs replacing every 72,000 miles or 5 years, so this might be due one if it hasn't been done yet. Otherwise very reliable.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302154...
Kia Ceed 1.0 ISG - the turbo Kappa engine in these is very good in terms of reliability, but the radiator in some models can be prone to damage that can lead to overheating, but is quite rare and an easy fix.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302214...
Edit: Another couple of things - the Ford 1.0 and 1.5 Ecoboost engines and the Peugeot/Citroen 1.2 PureTech engines use this wet cambelt design, replacement cost is at least £1000 when they need replacing at 100k or 10 years. Also, if you use the wrong type of oil, the belt can disintegrate, the bits of disintegrated belt then block the oil pickups and then you have a dead engine. They are ok I reckon as long as you use the correct oil (so full dealer service history) and get shot of them well before 10 years or 100k.
Thanks for the very comprehensive reply. The 1.0, 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines are the EA211 and are belt driven. The interval for replacing them as listed in the owners handbooks is 133,000 miles with no time limit, so minimal worry. The EA211 is a good engine - decent power and torque for the size, warms up very quickly and very frugal for a petrol. They don't take well to being remapped, there have been lots of reports of blown turbos, so just leave them stock and don't mess about with them. Also, I'd avoid the newer 1.5 TSI EVO engines, there have been a few documented issues with juddering and jerkiness, though there was a recall to fix this - making sure the recall has been carried out is therefore essential if you don't want any headaches.
The 1.8 and 2.0 TSI engines are the EA888 (also found in various hot versions like the GTI, R, Cupra, vRS, etc) which is chain driven. Water pump might want changing around 100k or so. These respond very well to remaps and big power numbers can be had from them.
Oil change intervals for both are every 9000 miles or annually. Lifespan for both these engines seems to be around 200k.
As someone else mentioned, avoid any of these models that have panoramic roofs, as they are known to leak - my old Audi A3 had this feature, it was a pain in the arse!
Golfs are very popular for some reason, your money will go much further with a Seat Leon as you mentioned, that's what I'd pick.
1.8 TSI FR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212012...
1.4 TSI Xcellence
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303135...
Skoda Octavia 1.4 TSI Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301253...
The 1.3 TCe in the Megane is a very good engine and is chain driven. They can be sensitive to oil quality and missed services, so try and find one with a full Renault dealership history.
Megane 1.3 TCe
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202301203...
With the Astra, there have been a few issues with the 1.4i Turbo engines with low speed pre-ignition (booting it at low rpm) which can properly knacker the engine. I think there have been recalls to address the problem, with various degrees of success. I'd try and find a 1.6 turbo engined variant, they are much more reliable, like this one. Decent power too.
Vauxhall Astra 1.6T SRi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303044...
Other ideas
Honda Civic 1.8 i-VTEC Tourer - these engines are pretty much bombproof
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302023...
Fiat Tipo 1.4 T-Jet - these motors also use a timing belt that needs replacing every 72,000 miles or 5 years, so this might be due one if it hasn't been done yet. Otherwise very reliable.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302154...
Kia Ceed 1.0 ISG - the turbo Kappa engine in these is very good in terms of reliability, but the radiator in some models can be prone to damage that can lead to overheating, but is quite rare and an easy fix.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302214...
Edit: Another couple of things - the Ford 1.0 and 1.5 Ecoboost engines and the Peugeot/Citroen 1.2 PureTech engines use this wet cambelt design, replacement cost is at least £1000 when they need replacing at 100k or 10 years. Also, if you use the wrong type of oil, the belt can disintegrate, the bits of disintegrated belt then block the oil pickups and then you have a dead engine. They are ok I reckon as long as you use the correct oil (so full dealer service history) and get shot of them well before 10 years or 100k.
I like the idea of the 1.6T Astra as a bit of a sleeper, especially in rental car white. I wouldn’t have known that model existed, if it wasn’t for this readers car thread - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Also thanks for suggesting the Kia Ceed. I hadn’t considered any Korean cars up to this point.
I’m a big Honda fan, and have owned several in the past, but I’m not sure about the DustBuster styling of that Civic Tourer.
spreadsheet monkey said:
I’m a big Honda fan, and have owned several in the past, but I’m not sure about the DustBuster styling of that Civic Tourer.
I see what your saying, there is a certain ungainliness about the front end, but once you use one you realise it's all in the name of interior space and practicality. It think it's a worthwhile compromise as the interior is so comfortable and roomy for this class size of car. I love mine and I'll probably keep it until it dies, which will hopefully be a long time.Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this thread. I’m now leaning towards going up a size, and will probably get a 2018 or 2019 Passat petrol estate.
The current crop of medium estate cars are still very capable cars, and look like great value if you buy at 3-4 years old. I rented a Focus estate on a recent holiday to Greece and was impressed with how easily it took four suitcases and how well it wore its 100k kilometres, given that rental cars have a tougher life than most.
The current crop of medium estate cars are still very capable cars, and look like great value if you buy at 3-4 years old. I rented a Focus estate on a recent holiday to Greece and was impressed with how easily it took four suitcases and how well it wore its 100k kilometres, given that rental cars have a tougher life than most.
vikingaero said:
For value in the VeeDub camp, what about equivalent Skodas and Seats?
I don’t think Skodas are the bargain they once were, as the market has caught on to how good they are. At the age I’m looking at, an Octavia estate is not much cheaper than a comparable Golf estate, and a Superb estate is not much cheaper than a comparable Passat estate. Seat still a good shout though.
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