Z4M a safer modern classic than the E46 M3?
Discussion
Looking at the E46 M3's they come with their issues of RCAP, Rust, Rod bearings, Vanos etc.
The Z4M has the same engine (still has the potential Vanos issue but Rod bearings is less so) no rear subframe cracking and no significant rust issue (although maybe that's due to them being a little newer)
They look like a better bet at the moment to get into the M market with the S54 engine and the current price point seems low before it starts to take off like the E46's did.
The Z4M has the same engine (still has the potential Vanos issue but Rod bearings is less so) no rear subframe cracking and no significant rust issue (although maybe that's due to them being a little newer)
They look like a better bet at the moment to get into the M market with the S54 engine and the current price point seems low before it starts to take off like the E46's did.
Completely agree, and the Z4M is also more unique as the last 2 seater coupe produced by BMW, let alone the last with the S54 engine.
Not sure that the rod bearings are necessarily safer?
And prices in Europe has already taken off for the Z4MC, cheapest in Belgium is €39000 for instance, still pondering whether to get one (the Z4C was great too, at half price)
Not sure that the rod bearings are necessarily safer?
And prices in Europe has already taken off for the Z4MC, cheapest in Belgium is €39000 for instance, still pondering whether to get one (the Z4C was great too, at half price)
You'll also find that parts (genuine & 2nd hand) unique to the Z4M are more expensive than parts unique to the M3...purely due to their significantly smaller production numbers.
But I think the Z4M has a smaller following simply because it's not as practical/comfortable car as the M3.
But I think the Z4M has a smaller following simply because it's not as practical/comfortable car as the M3.
I really fancy one to complement my E46 M3 vert. Agree with what someone else said about prices potentially being around the bottom of the curve now.
Rod bearings had an early recall on the E46 and should have been resolved by the time the Z4 hit production. But there now seems to be a number of cars suffering worn bearings again later in life regardless of age or previous recall work. Being cynical I wonder how many of these cars are regularly thrashed from cold contributing to the issue?
I wouldn't let the vanos put you off, replacing all the seals is a diy job if you're reasonably handy and good preventative maintenance (mine were noticeably hardened compared to the replacements). That just leaves solenoid issues but it's not hard to change, or the dreaded exhaust hub failure which again isn't hard to change, but the bigger concern is the damage the tab can do knocking around in the sump.
Rod bearings had an early recall on the E46 and should have been resolved by the time the Z4 hit production. But there now seems to be a number of cars suffering worn bearings again later in life regardless of age or previous recall work. Being cynical I wonder how many of these cars are regularly thrashed from cold contributing to the issue?
I wouldn't let the vanos put you off, replacing all the seals is a diy job if you're reasonably handy and good preventative maintenance (mine were noticeably hardened compared to the replacements). That just leaves solenoid issues but it's not hard to change, or the dreaded exhaust hub failure which again isn't hard to change, but the bigger concern is the damage the tab can do knocking around in the sump.
I don't believe the Z4M S54 was ever recalled as it already had the later items.
However, some get scared by e46 M3 stories and get their's changed as a preventative measure at around 50k miles.
Mine lasted until 140,000 miles before they went. Car was still driveable as I heard a slight rumble at low revs, but by the time the car was recovered and stripped down, it was decided we'd do a whole top-to-bottom rebuild with some upgrades...which then morphed into a replacement engine & supercharger.
Mine was a daily driver, weekend hooner, and regular track day & Ring car...but having owned it for 150,000 miles I can honestly say it was never ragged when cold...however it was seriously ragged when warmed up.
However, some get scared by e46 M3 stories and get their's changed as a preventative measure at around 50k miles.
Mine lasted until 140,000 miles before they went. Car was still driveable as I heard a slight rumble at low revs, but by the time the car was recovered and stripped down, it was decided we'd do a whole top-to-bottom rebuild with some upgrades...which then morphed into a replacement engine & supercharger.
Mine was a daily driver, weekend hooner, and regular track day & Ring car...but having owned it for 150,000 miles I can honestly say it was never ragged when cold...however it was seriously ragged when warmed up.
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 9th March 19:46
Nice pics!
I've never driven an e46 in anger (on track) but they are very different cars. The e46 M3 is a very good car, but basically a fast & competent 3-series. The Z4M Coupe is a sportscar to the bone! With all the connotations.
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/J3CGhHkg.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/YJqpJTFf" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/YJqpJTFf.jpg)
I've never driven an e46 in anger (on track) but they are very different cars. The e46 M3 is a very good car, but basically a fast & competent 3-series. The Z4M Coupe is a sportscar to the bone! With all the connotations.
Edited by Pereldh on Friday 10th March 09:27
Edited by Pereldh on Friday 10th March 17:29
CRA1G said:
I agree,I own both E46 M3 and Z4MC and as much as they share the same engine they are very different to drive the Z feels like a go-kart compared to the M3.
They do feel very different to drive I agree, and I've driven both. My BIL had an E46 M3 when he had a go in my Z4M, and he said exactly the same as you about it feeling like a go-kart. Being sat over the rear wheels really changes they way a car feels I reckon. CSK423 said:
Consensus seems to be it'll soon land on the radar and grow in price then. The next question would be roadster or coupe ?
Less roadsters than Coupes but they seem to be cheaper which is surprising.
Roadster/Convertible are always cheaper Z3 Z4 E36,E46 and M3 V8's. I have a E36 M3 Evo Convertible but I bought it because of the one owner low mileage and colour but would rather it been a Coupe.Less roadsters than Coupes but they seem to be cheaper which is surprising.
CSK423 said:
Consensus seems to be it'll soon land on the radar and grow in price then. The next question would be roadster or coupe ?
Less roadsters than Coupes but they seem to be cheaper which is surprising.
I'm not sure that's correct....unless you mean the amount for sale or on 'How Many Left'.Less roadsters than Coupes but they seem to be cheaper which is surprising.
Worldwide there were abut 5000 Z4MR and about 4000 Z4MC.
Of those, around 610 Z4MR and 590 Z4MC were UK spec.
I'm a coupe owner (as for a long time I was allergic to the sun - didn't even buy cars with sunroofs
), but have driven the roadster too and would happily own either. But the roadster feels more compliant as standard, and rides the bumps better. The coupe can be a bit nervous if you're not prepared/accepting of it.Edited by mmm-five on Friday 10th March 13:36
mmm-five said:
I'm not sure that's correct....unless you mean the amount for sale or on 'How Many Left'.
Worldwide there were abut 5000 Z4MR and about 4000 Z4MC.
Of those, around 610 Z4MR and 590 Z4MC were UK spec.
I'm a coupe owner (as for a long time I was allergic to the sun - didn't even buy cars with sunroofs ), but have driven the roadster too and would happily own either. But the roadster feels more compliant as standard, and rides the bumps better. The coupe can be a bit nervous if you're not prepared/accepting of it.
From general internet reading a few had highlighted that the coupe out sold the roadster, including a PH article from 2015 iirc. Seems the numbers were much closer. I do like the idea of the Roadster.Worldwide there were abut 5000 Z4MR and about 4000 Z4MC.
Of those, around 610 Z4MR and 590 Z4MC were UK spec.
I'm a coupe owner (as for a long time I was allergic to the sun - didn't even buy cars with sunroofs
), but have driven the roadster too and would happily own either. But the roadster feels more compliant as standard, and rides the bumps better. The coupe can be a bit nervous if you're not prepared/accepting of it.Edited by mmm-five on Friday 10th March 13:36
CSK423 said:
From general internet reading a few had highlighted that the coupe out sold the roadster, including a PH article from 2015 iirc. Seems the numbers were much closer. I do like the idea of the Roadster.
Maybe more of the 'twitchy' coupes have been written off - which is why they're rarer/more expensive 
I’ve owned a Z4MC since 2010. When I had children I looked at selling and getting an M3 instead, but couldn’t find a rust free one, so kept the Z4M.
Values haven’t really moved in 10 years, so I’d say pick the one you want to drive.
If you have a garage and can find a good example the M3 is a more polished proposition. If you plan on keeping it outside get the Z4M.
Values haven’t really moved in 10 years, so I’d say pick the one you want to drive.
If you have a garage and can find a good example the M3 is a more polished proposition. If you plan on keeping it outside get the Z4M.
I wonder how the Z4MC compares with the E46 M3 with respect to corrosion?
The lack of protection to the underside of the M3 is shocking (and this applies to the E9x generation as well) and has been blamed on EU environmental regulations (or more likely cost-pinching...), causing a reduction in the application proper anti stone-chip surfaces at the factory.
As the Z4 has always been built in US factories, do they have the same problem with inadequate stone-chip protection layers?
Regarding the fun factor...
There was a period, between the end of E46 M3 production and fully ramped-up E92 M3 production, when BMW Driver Training at the Nurburgring/Spa/Mugello used the Z4MC. I have to say, in these circumstance, the M3 was a much more predictable companion, especially in the wet.
But if you want a more entertaining (rather less predictable) car for weekend hooning, I can definitely see the appeal.
And look at Z3MC prices now.
The lack of protection to the underside of the M3 is shocking (and this applies to the E9x generation as well) and has been blamed on EU environmental regulations (or more likely cost-pinching...), causing a reduction in the application proper anti stone-chip surfaces at the factory.
As the Z4 has always been built in US factories, do they have the same problem with inadequate stone-chip protection layers?
Regarding the fun factor...
There was a period, between the end of E46 M3 production and fully ramped-up E92 M3 production, when BMW Driver Training at the Nurburgring/Spa/Mugello used the Z4MC. I have to say, in these circumstance, the M3 was a much more predictable companion, especially in the wet.
But if you want a more entertaining (rather less predictable) car for weekend hooning, I can definitely see the appeal.
And look at Z3MC prices now.
I've only had my Z4M Coupe just over 3 years but absolutely love it. Sitting low just in front of the back wheels makes it feel so special. As great as the M3 probably is as someone said sitting in the driving seat most of what you see will still be very similar to any other E46, and I don't need or want back seats in my weekend car!
Rod bearings definitely still seem to be an issue with them. My car had 7 former keepers, and given that the first was BMW UK I suspected it may have been thrashed from cold by at least one of them. So I got new shells fitted at 78K miles for peace of mind, which turned out to be a good call when I saw the old ones. And the engine mounts were also well past their best.
Z4Ms are also much rarer. An owner compiled an extensive database of numbers registered when VIN decoders were free and found 614 Roadsters and 592 Coupes were registered in the UK, but there are a few less now sadly!
The only rust issues I have read about relate to rear brakes pipes (hardly unusual on any BMW) and Coupe tailgates. There certainly don't seem to be any boot floor cracking issues.
Z4Ms, especially Roadsters, look pretty cheap compared to M3 prices, and they are all manual.
Rod bearings definitely still seem to be an issue with them. My car had 7 former keepers, and given that the first was BMW UK I suspected it may have been thrashed from cold by at least one of them. So I got new shells fitted at 78K miles for peace of mind, which turned out to be a good call when I saw the old ones. And the engine mounts were also well past their best.
Z4Ms are also much rarer. An owner compiled an extensive database of numbers registered when VIN decoders were free and found 614 Roadsters and 592 Coupes were registered in the UK, but there are a few less now sadly!
The only rust issues I have read about relate to rear brakes pipes (hardly unusual on any BMW) and Coupe tailgates. There certainly don't seem to be any boot floor cracking issues.
Z4Ms, especially Roadsters, look pretty cheap compared to M3 prices, and they are all manual.
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