I want a wedge, but don't understand all the variations

[Downshiftup]

I'm interested in buying a wedge. But they made quite a few variations of it. I get the differences in engines. The names are clear enough. 350i is a 3.5, 390SE is a 3.9 and so on. But what about the rest?

Cosmetically, apart from the SEAC cars, the shells seem to be all the same, with just different bumpers, spoilers, chins, bonnets etc? Specially at the front. At the rear the taillights changed from Rover to Porsche? So I guess the taillight pods needed to be remodeled.

Mechanically, the chassis are all the same? Maybe change in suspension parts? Is the difference between a 1980 Tasmin 2.8, a 1983 280i/350i and a 390SE huge, mechanically, apart from the engine?

What about up keeping? Are parts difficult to find? I guess mechanically it should be ok as parts are from other mainstream cars? But what about body parts? Things like chin spoilers, sills ground effects and things which can easily break or chip?

Thanks for the guidance.

Edited by Downshiftup on Wednesday 1st March 10:02

[adam quantrill]

Hi Downshiftup, some good questions.

The forum here has a wealth of information in past articles, also start with the FAQ that has some recommendations for reading material.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I think the only confusing one is the limited series of 350SE's that were actually 3.95l.

For body styles, there is series 1 and series 2 as well as SEAC.

Welcome to the world of wedges! You won't be disappointed.

[BlueWedgy]

There is a bit more here:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Taken from here:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Have a look at this site (It is German but in English), some pages may not work unless you are a member:

https://tvrcarclub.de/knowledgebase_category/wedge...

As Adam says enjoy, but be prepared to tinker along the way.

[KKson]

Hi, as Adam has highlighted, there is a load of Wedge info on this forum which is very useful.

Wedge wise in my opinion they are the most underrated of TVR's. They are easy for home maintenance, sound fantastic and go very well, despite the original basis of suspension (Cortina front, Jag XJS rear). I'm on to my third. 350i, then 390SE and now 450 SEAC.

There are the two basis body options, convertible and Fixed Head Coupe (FHC). The earlier more angular bodies are series 1, and later series 2. As you note there are differences to the series 2 bodies. Some had integral rear bumpers were others had separate. The 390SE also had a deeper front air dam and a rear diffuser to add downforce (in theory!). Later Wedges use Renault Fuego rear lights, mounted upside down, not Porsche,

Early cars were 2.8i Capri engines, and then the V8 was introduced. as you say 350i's use the standard 3.5 litre Rover, typically 185 to 190bhp. 390SEs typically put out 240bhp. The claimed 275bhp by TVR was down to one or two very special engines. There are also 4 litre versions (220-240 bhp), 4.2 litres as in the SEAC at 280-300bhp, 4.3 units which are very rare and then final 4.5 litre SEAC units with claimed 320bhp.

Suspension wise earlier cars used "trailing arm" suspension but this was not good for handling more power such as the V8's so later cars have a more robust "A frame" suspension. All run a Jaguar rear diff and inboard brake system, but some of the diffs are limited slip.

Spares are pretty good as the components came from many lesser cars. For the V8 units, engines and gearboxes from the Rover SD1, front suspension Cortina Mk2/3 but with Granada hubs and uprights. Rear as stated jaguar suspension. Headlamp motors are TR7 as is most of the switch gear. Brakes wise again Granada units. Normal 350is use the smaller 2 pot, non vented discs, larger engines used the much larger Granada 2.8i vented front discs with 2 pots, or Princess 4 pot calipers.

Other components include TR7 washer bottles, Capri expansion bottles, Capri/Cortina master cylinder, Porsche/DeLorean ash tray (!!), Capri door handles, Allegro internal door handles, and many other small items poached from other parts bins.

Spares are pretty good. Rear A frames and hubs are not available, but suspension wise most other items are about, and servicing is easy, apart from the bloody annoying inboard rear discs. You need small hands to change the brake pads!

Body wise there is a company called Black cat racing who acquired the original TVR Wedge moulds, so body panels can be re-made. There are however quite a few spare or chopped up bodies that are sold, as some individuals remove the bodies and use the running gear to create special kit cars, such as Escorts, Healeys and Cobra replicas.

The Wedge community is VERY friendly and well supported, so let us know if you have any more questions. Cheers.

Edited by KKson on Wednesday 1st March 14:18

[BananaFama]

No mention yet for the budget model ,the 200 ,with a Ford Cortina , Sierra etc ,"Pinto" engine .

I was after one of these about 30 years ago but made zero effort to find one and lost interest , went back to owning rubbish Fords again .

[KKson]

BananaFama said:

No mention yet for the budget model ,the 200 ,with a Ford Cortina , Sierra etc ,"Pinto" engine .

I was after one of these about 30 years ago but made zero effort to find one and lost interest , went back to owning rubbish Fords again .

Good point, must be the rarest of the Wedges. I've only ever seen one in the flesh.

[Downshiftup]

adam quantrill said:

Hi Downshiftup, some good questions.

The forum here has a wealth of information in past articles, also start with the FAQ that has some recommendations for reading material.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I think the only confusing one is the limited series of 350SE's that were actually 3.95l.

For body styles, there is series 1 and series 2 as well as SEAC.

Welcome to the world of wedges! You won't be disappointed.

Thanks for the welcoming.

I had a look at the FAQ before. But most of my questions were not listed on the topics. I will try having another look, thanks.

[Downshiftup]

BlueWedgy said:

There is a bit more here:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Taken from here:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Have a look at this site (It is German but in English), some pages may not work unless you are a member:

https://tvrcarclub.de/knowledgebase_category/wedge...

As Adam says enjoy, but be prepared to tinker along the way.

Thanks.

[Downshiftup]

BananaFama said:

No mention yet for the budget model ,the 200 ,with a Ford Cortina , Sierra etc ,"Pinto" engine .

I was after one of these about 30 years ago but made zero effort to find one and lost interest , went back to owning rubbish Fords again .

I would also really be interested in feedback about the Tasmin 280i. As I really like the coupes and many coupes seem to be the 2.8i.

I would also love a convertible. Whichever I find which seems right. But most reports are on the V8s. So it seems difficult to get info about the V6. Compared to the 350i the power difference is supposedly 30bhp. So I'm not really worried. I do know the V8 sounds better. But if a nice V6 coupe would pop, I would not turn it down because it's not a V8. So V6 info would be welcome.

[Downshiftup]

KKson said:

Hi, as Adam has highlighted, there is a load of Wedge info on this forum which is very useful.

Thanks. And thanks also for your great and detailed reply. I will have to take it bit by bit.

Wedge wise in my opinion they are the most underrated of TVR's. They are easy for home maintenance, sound fantastic and go very well, despite the original basis of suspension (Cortina front, Jag XJS rear). I'm on to my third. 350i, then 390SE and now 450 SEAC.

I really like the looks and sound of them. Even the V6 sounds good. Never driven one though. My only fear and what has kept me away a bit is the reliability rumors. This will be a weekend car. But I would hope it wouldn't be the type of car I must spend most weekends under it instead of driving. I don't have a lot of time for this. Basic stuff sure.

KKson said:

There are the two basis body options, convertible and Fixed Head Coupe (FHC). The earlier more angular bodies are series 1, and later series 2. As you note there are differences to the series 2 bodies. Some had integral rear bumpers were others had separate. The 390SE also had a deeper front air dam and a rear diffuser to add downforce (in theory!). Later Wedges use Renault Fuego rear lights, mounted upside down, not Porsche,

But are the shells different in S1 and S2 or just bumper, chins spoilers etc? Between the cars with integrated nose, sure. But I mean between these for example:


To me they look like the same body shell, but different bumpers and chin spoilers.

KKson said:

Suspension wise earlier cars used "trailing arm" suspension but this was not good for handling more power such as the V8's so later cars have a more robust "A frame" suspension. All run a Jaguar rear diff and inboard brake system, but some of the diffs are limited slip.

Is it possible to upgrade an earlier car, like a 1980 280i to the later A frame set up? Just bolt on? Possible to find the parts?

KKson said:

Spares are pretty good. Rear A frames and hubs are not available, but suspension wise most other items are about,

Ah, I guess this answers my earlier question. So I would be stuck with the earlier suspension set up? And if it goes in a car which had it, how do you do? Custom made?

KKson said:

Body wise there is a company called Black cat racing who acquired the original TVR Wedge moulds, so body panels can be re-made. There are however quite a few spare or chopped up bodies that are sold, as some individuals remove the bodies and use the running gear to create special kit cars, such as Escorts, Healeys and Cobra replicas.

Ok, I will check this company. Thanks.

KKson said:

The Wedge community is VERY friendly and well supported, so let us know if you have any more questions. Cheers.

I've been noticing that. Thanks for the welcoming.

[KKson]

Hi, answering those questions I can:

Reliability - if they are maintained correctly then they are reliable as any other car. if they are left sat in a garage for months and then fired up, they will not be happy. So thorough servicing and plenty of use and they are great. During Covid and lockdown I used my 450 SEAC as my daily driver. Despite all the st going on, the TVR put a smile on my face.

Bodyshells - they may look similar but in reality all the various body shapes are different. Different bulkheads, different fibreglass thickness, slightly different dimensions, different internal cockpit widths. In my opinion no two Wedges are the same!

Suspension - the trailing arm and A frame chassis are completely different so no you cant just fit later suspension to an earlier chassis. Similarly earlier 2.8i cars had a much narrower chassis, so the V8 wont fit without serious butchering and welding mods.

Suspension availability - yes if your A frame or hub is beyond repair then you will need to get one fabricated. The main hub unit is Granada but welded to a bespoke fabrication. I had a new A frame arm made up a few years ago by one of the TVR specialists and it was less than £200, so not a major issue.

Body panels - Graham Walden who runs Black Cat is a true TVR and Wedge fan, so is very helpful if new panels are needed. In reality the bodies are only fibreglass, so are relatively easy to repair as they are not structural. Many people have spare bits sitting around so when in doubt ask. I've a 350i rear bumper complete and sat in my garage loft for example, plus a very large amount of spares for the engine, suspension etc.

Re the V6, unfortunately I have no experience with this model. They still sound awesome however. I think the K-Jetronic fuel injection system is tricky for some spares but I'm sure others can advise on that.

Shout if you have any more questions. Cheers Keith

[FHCNICK]

If you are looking at Tasmin coupe's (always referred to as FHC - Fixed Head Coupe's) then the bodies did change between series 1 & series 2.

The series 1 Tasmin fhc has a vertical small rear glass panel where on the series 2 it slopes because the series 2 is 2" longer - the longer body came into being to produce the rare 2+2 coupe's and that body sans the 2 small rear seats became the series 2 shell. The series 1 also had the Stewart Warner instruments in the dashboard which look better to me than the later VDO gauges.

The V6 S1 cars had twin tailpipes which exited throuhh holes in the rear vallance (In my eyes the best solution for exhaust tailpipe integration on any car). Early cars had a 4 speed gearbox replaced with a 5 speed box in 1982 I think.

There are lots of subtle differences and some features evolved rather than being strictly S1 or S2 features if that makes sense. Things like the stubby handbrake lever replaced by a more mainstream handle, electric window switches moving from the transmission tunnel to centre console and so on.


I have had 3 FHC wedges starting with an S1 280i (1981), an early 350i (1984) and I currently drive a 390i (1985) all of which are trailing arm suspension which I have never had any problems with.

All the best with your hunt
Nick

[mrzigazaga]

Hi

If you can then buy the best that you can afford, they are all a load of fun, I owned a 280i and after many painful years got it to a useable standard and to be fair she was a reliable fun classic, however I had to scratch the V8 itch so the 350i was to be the scratching stick, now gone after 8 years I would like a 400SE .....parts are predominantly ford, apart from some TVR engineered parts, so sourceable, running cost for a V8 depending on use is around £1000 p.a...you also become part of a fraternity who will help where they can ...

Good luck

[ElvisWedgeman]

I just wanted to add that Wedges are addictive. I remember when I bought my first Wedge many years ago I bought it just to see what they’re like. I’ve bough nine more since over the years. Every model is brilliant in its own way and they all sound good like only a TVR can sound. It’s just a matter of how much power you want as to what model suits. They are all reliable if looked after and well maintained. Unfortunately I don’t own one right now as where I live in London, Mr Khan charges a premium on a daily basis for the privilege of driving a modern classic. It’s called the ULEZ charge and seems to be expanding at an incredible rate. People in London need fresh air apparently. Though I still haven’t given up and am always on the look out for an older model which is excluded from the emissions zone. Perhaps even an automatic as in my senior years my clutch foot isn’t what it used to be. So, to summarise they’re all great cars, parts are available and advice through forums such as this are plentiful and friendly. Just go for it and good luck with your search.

[KKson]

Blimey Mark, expensive running costs. Tax for mine is £240, insurance £93, MOT £45. Couple of tyres every other year at £90 each. I do my own servicing, so oil, oil filter and new plugs £60. Brake pads last years given limited mileage to 5000 pa. When something breaks parts are cheap. Excluding tax and insurance, I reckon £300 to £500 typical running costs, if you do your own spannering.

[sixor8]

I'm presuming you SORN it for a few months in the winter then? Or else VED is more than when you last looked ; it's £295 p.a. for cars over 1549cc and registered before March 2001.

And it'll likely go up by 10% next month.

[KKson]

Good point. Yes I did SORN it last winter to change the front wheel bearings, and to give the chassis a thorough clean and touch up of a few areas where the epoxy coating had chipped.

[Downshiftup]

KKson said:

Hi, answering those questions I can:

Reliability - if they are maintained correctly then they are reliable as any other car. if they are left sat in a garage for months and then fired up, they will not be happy. So thorough servicing and plenty of use and they are great. During Covid and lockdown I used my 450 SEAC as my daily driver. Despite all the st going on, the TVR put a smile on my face.

Well, being a weekend car and not being driven on winter, it will mean probably no more than 100 days a year of driving. But realistically, maybe even only half that. So if they don't like sitting around, will this be a problem? How often you gentlemen drive your wedges?

KKson said:

Bodyshells - they may look similar but in reality all the various body shapes are different. Different bulkheads, different fibreglass thickness, slightly different dimensions, different internal cockpit widths. In my opinion no two Wedges are the same!

Understood. But the difference on the exterior body shell between S1 and S2 is mainly the taillight pods and the wheel flares, right? The rest is add on bumpers, spoilers, wings etc, which could be added to either S1 and S2 interchangeably ? For example I have the impression this car has a S1 shell, because of the skinny body without flares, but has the ground effects and front spoiler of the S2 390SE 400SE etc?


So this white car seems to have a hybrid looks? Meaning parts are somehow interchangeable?

KKson said:

Suspension - the trailing arm and A frame chassis are completely different so no you cant just fit later suspension to an earlier chassis. Similarly earlier 2.8i cars had a much narrower chassis, so the V8 wont fit without serious butchering and welding mods.

Interesting to know the chassis are different. Tried a quick google search to see if I could spot the difference in the suspension and tell which chassis is trail arm and which is A frame, but didn't go very far. I would love to see it, to understand.

KKson said:

Shout if you have any more questions. Cheers Keith

Thank you very much!

[Downshiftup]

FHCNICK said:

If you are looking at Tasmin coupe's (always referred to as FHC - Fixed Head Coupe's) then the bodies did change between series 1 & series 2.

The series 1 Tasmin fhc has a vertical small rear glass panel where on the series 2 it slopes because the series 2 is 2" longer - the longer body came into being to produce the rare 2+2 coupe's and that body sans the 2 small rear seats became the series 2 shell. The series 1 also had the Stewart Warner instruments in the dashboard which look better to me than the later VDO gauges.

The V6 S1 cars had twin tailpipes which exited throuhh holes in the rear vallance (In my eyes the best solution for exhaust tailpipe integration on any car). Early cars had a 4 speed gearbox replaced with a 5 speed box in 1982 I think.

There are lots of subtle differences and some features evolved rather than being strictly S1 or S2 features if that makes sense. Things like the stubby handbrake lever replaced by a more mainstream handle, electric window switches moving from the transmission tunnel to centre console and so on.


I have had 3 FHC wedges starting with an S1 280i (1981), an early 350i (1984) and I currently drive a 390i (1985) all of which are trailing arm suspension which I have never had any problems with.

All the best with your hunt
Nick

Thanks. Yes, I do like the FHC cars quite a bit. But I never saw a S2 FHC. Meaning a FHC with the nose like a 390SE or 400SE etc. I thought FHC were all S1 and only 280i and 350i.

[Downshiftup]

mrzigazaga said:

Hi

If you can then buy the best that you can afford, they are all a load of fun, I owned a 280i and after many painful years got it to a useable standard and to be fair she was a reliable fun classic, however I had to scratch the V8 itch so the 350i was to be the scratching stick, now gone after 8 years I would like a 400SE .....parts are predominantly ford, apart from some TVR engineered parts, so sourceable, running cost for a V8 depending on use is around £1000 p.a...you also become part of a fraternity who will help where they can ...

Good luck

Thanks. Yes, buying best I can afford is good advice. But a part of me is also tempted to buy a project, from somebody who started restoring or something and didn't finish it. Maybe in hopes it would end up cheaper or not more than the best I can afford. But I could for example make sure the chassis is restored and correctly, as I heard the chassis is one the biggest weaknesses. Is it a crazy idea to go for a project car? What I fear is putting the electrics together. I never put a car together and am not a mechanic. But I could paint it myself though.