First post - Help/advice needed
Discussion
Hi guys
Time to break cover! Having spent some time trawling through the archives I am looking for a bit of advice. I am looking to potentially buy something Porsche over or just after christmas but I am in a few minds as to what to go for. My budget will probably be about 12 - 14K and I am not to bothered about LHD, it seems some reckon LHDs are better than RHDs so I am happy with that. My main issue is what model and where to buy from.
As with all kids I grew up with a 911 on the wall and it does seem that LHD 964s drop into this price, would this be a good buy or would I be better forgetting 964s and sticking to earlier cars or just 968s? I like the 968 and they seem to be an good option. Also, if you look at something like www.mobile.de there are a milion and one things to tempt but I don't know a lot about the import process! So what do people think?
Whatever I buy it would be used daily,the daily commute is about 15-20 miles each way, obviously I don't want to buy a ton of trouble and reliability would be a good thing!!!
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Cheers
Richard
Time to break cover! Having spent some time trawling through the archives I am looking for a bit of advice. I am looking to potentially buy something Porsche over or just after christmas but I am in a few minds as to what to go for. My budget will probably be about 12 - 14K and I am not to bothered about LHD, it seems some reckon LHDs are better than RHDs so I am happy with that. My main issue is what model and where to buy from.
As with all kids I grew up with a 911 on the wall and it does seem that LHD 964s drop into this price, would this be a good buy or would I be better forgetting 964s and sticking to earlier cars or just 968s? I like the 968 and they seem to be an good option. Also, if you look at something like www.mobile.de there are a milion and one things to tempt but I don't know a lot about the import process! So what do people think?
Whatever I buy it would be used daily,the daily commute is about 15-20 miles each way, obviously I don't want to buy a ton of trouble and reliability would be a good thing!!!
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Cheers
Richard
Hi there twit 
Did you see last months evo? (with the Focus RS on the cover)
It had a 964 Buyers guide and is well worth a look.
For your £12-14K you could buy a good 968CS, or a good 964 Carrera 2.
Personally with that price range i would go for the 968CS.
But make sure that you test-drive all the Porsche's within your price range before you decide
Cheers
Marvin
>> Edited by Super_Marv on Tuesday 22 October 19:14
Did you see last months evo? (with the Focus RS on the cover)
It had a 964 Buyers guide and is well worth a look.
For your £12-14K you could buy a good 968CS, or a good 964 Carrera 2.
Personally with that price range i would go for the 968CS.
But make sure that you test-drive all the Porsche's within your price range before you decide
Cheers
Marvin
>> Edited by Super_Marv on Tuesday 22 October 19:14
Cheers guys, I did see the evo article and it was that that got me thinking! I also took in what they said about potential trouble spots which I'll need to check. I really really like the 968 CS but I am being drawn to the 964 for the 911 shape...
There is a 964 2wd for sale at a dealer near me or 13K, I'm going to ring to see if I can look to see as a benchmark. I can look as much as like now cos' the temptation to buy will be there but the means won't be... At chrstmas I'll have to be a whole lot more disciplined!!
Cheers
There is a 964 2wd for sale at a dealer near me or 13K, I'm going to ring to see if I can look to see as a benchmark. I can look as much as like now cos' the temptation to buy will be there but the means won't be... At chrstmas I'll have to be a whole lot more disciplined!!
Cheers
Yeah, the 968CS and a nice 964C2 are the only rational choices as far as I can see, and are both good cars. Best to drive them both and see which one grabs you more. They both have pros and cons.
964C2 - pros: engine note and classic character, whole 911 ownership experience, rear seats; cons: won't handle quite as well as CS
968CS - pros: handles well, practical hatch, cheaper to buy, more modern interior; cons: not as cheap to run or reliable as you may expect (but still probably cheaper than a 964), slower than C2, no rear seats, dull engine note compared to flat six
Cheers
Domster
964C2 - pros: engine note and classic character, whole 911 ownership experience, rear seats; cons: won't handle quite as well as CS
968CS - pros: handles well, practical hatch, cheaper to buy, more modern interior; cons: not as cheap to run or reliable as you may expect (but still probably cheaper than a 964), slower than C2, no rear seats, dull engine note compared to flat six
Cheers
Domster
Domster - I didn't get the handle as I assumed UV already booked it? I guess I was wrong 
Twit - Don't go near the 968CS, they're awful cars and the current buying market is best left to the experts. If you do want one go for a nice purple cab with matching interior.
Seriously tho, if you haven't had a 911 I'd get a 964, the only reason I'm going for a CS is cos I haven't had one. I had a 964 for a year and it was the best car I've ever had.
Twit - Don't go near the 968CS, they're awful cars and the current buying market is best left to the experts. If you do want one go for a nice purple cab with matching interior.
Seriously tho, if you haven't had a 911 I'd get a 964, the only reason I'm going for a CS is cos I haven't had one. I had a 964 for a year and it was the best car I've ever had.
Why is a 964 the only "sensible" option? An earlier 911, e.g. Carrera 3.2, would fall into this price range, especially in LHD, and would potentially be cheaper to run. It doesn't have the creature-comforts of the 964 but does have the more "go-cart" feel of the earlier, lighter 911s. I think that saying a 964 is the only sensible option is a little narrow-minded.
It all depends on what twit wants out of the car. Twit, what do you want out of the car? E.g. daily driver, weekend toy, 2nd car...?
Just my opinion etc etc.
James
>> Edited by billyb on Wednesday 23 October 11:29
It all depends on what twit wants out of the car. Twit, what do you want out of the car? E.g. daily driver, weekend toy, 2nd car...?
Just my opinion etc etc.
James
>> Edited by billyb on Wednesday 23 October 11:29
James, he said it had to do 15-20 miles as a daily driver in which case I have to agree with Domster.
Having owned early 911s and 964s I have to say the driving 'quality' of the 964 are far better than the earlier versions IMHO of course. Standard 964s don't lose that go-kart feel although the 993s did.
As long as he doesn't snap up any 968s I fancy tho I don't care
Having owned early 911s and 964s I have to say the driving 'quality' of the 964 are far better than the earlier versions IMHO of course. Standard 964s don't lose that go-kart feel although the 993s did.
As long as he doesn't snap up any 968s I fancy tho I don't care
Twit ,
I would be very interested in what you end up going for because I will doing exactly the same thing in the New Year.
I'm already bored with the BMW Conv. (only had it a couple of months !), and I need to get a more entertaining everyday car.
My personal preference is for RHD, but having never driven LHD in the UK I won't rule it out just yet.
What are the 964's / 968's like to drive through the winter months?
Cheers
Paul
, I would be very interested in what you end up going for because I will doing exactly the same thing in the New Year.
I'm already bored with the BMW Conv. (only had it a couple of months !), and I need to get a more entertaining everyday car.
My personal preference is for RHD, but having never driven LHD in the UK I won't rule it out just yet.
What are the 964's / 968's like to drive through the winter months?
Cheers
Paul
I was being deliberately narrow-minded, because it is probably more helpful to come up with a maximum of one or two choices 
It makes the decision easier for Twit to make, than if I reeled off every Porsche model he could afford for 14k, from a shagged old 924 upwards.
I stand by what I say - the 964 *is* a better car at the budget than a 3.2. If he'd have asked what the best sub 10k Porsche is, I'd be waving the 3.2 flag at the moment without any hesitation
As it is, I've driven both 3.2s and 964s, and IMHO the 964 is a better car to drive. And one look at the rear suspension arrangement will quickly tell you which is technically more proficient.
I will freely admit that the 964 may cost slightly more to run, and early cars had Dual Mass Flywheel problems, leaking barrels etc. but that's why I said a 'nice 964'. Not 'any old 964'. I will also admit that the 964 arguably has slightly less character, in some peoples' eyes, than the 3.2, but others prefer the modern PU bumper look.
However, the sheer progress made with the 964 model can't be ignored, and at the prices they are today for nice LHD examples, they are a complete bargain.
If Twit wants an older Porsche, because he likes the look or the style, then fair play. He could save a few quid, too. But if he wants his 12-14k to stretch as far as possible, the 964C2 makes a convincing argument for itself
And remember, I'm not a 964 junkie. I like the 3.2 a lot, think the 993 is far better in 'car' terms, and wouldn't own a 964 at all, if mine didn't come with the letters 'RS' after it.
I'm just giving a quick, concise and uncomplicated opinion on what car Twit may like to look at for in Porsche terms if he has 12-14k to spend, and I'm suggesting that the general rule of buying the 'youngest car you can afford' applies here. The CS is even younger, but 911s are special, as you well know
Therefore, those two are the only sensible choices IMHO, even if not the *only* choices. Apologies for leaving the IMHO out of the original post, but everything I write/have written/will write will be IMHO anyway, and anyone can feel free to disagree. Just don't take offence, as it ain't worth it
Cheers
Domster
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 14:01
It makes the decision easier for Twit to make, than if I reeled off every Porsche model he could afford for 14k, from a shagged old 924 upwards. I stand by what I say - the 964 *is* a better car at the budget than a 3.2. If he'd have asked what the best sub 10k Porsche is, I'd be waving the 3.2 flag at the moment without any hesitation
As it is, I've driven both 3.2s and 964s, and IMHO the 964 is a better car to drive. And one look at the rear suspension arrangement will quickly tell you which is technically more proficient.
I will freely admit that the 964 may cost slightly more to run, and early cars had Dual Mass Flywheel problems, leaking barrels etc. but that's why I said a 'nice 964'. Not 'any old 964'. I will also admit that the 964 arguably has slightly less character, in some peoples' eyes, than the 3.2, but others prefer the modern PU bumper look.
However, the sheer progress made with the 964 model can't be ignored, and at the prices they are today for nice LHD examples, they are a complete bargain.
If Twit wants an older Porsche, because he likes the look or the style, then fair play. He could save a few quid, too. But if he wants his 12-14k to stretch as far as possible, the 964C2 makes a convincing argument for itself
And remember, I'm not a 964 junkie. I like the 3.2 a lot, think the 993 is far better in 'car' terms, and wouldn't own a 964 at all, if mine didn't come with the letters 'RS' after it.
I'm just giving a quick, concise and uncomplicated opinion on what car Twit may like to look at for in Porsche terms if he has 12-14k to spend, and I'm suggesting that the general rule of buying the 'youngest car you can afford' applies here. The CS is even younger, but 911s are special, as you well know
Therefore, those two are the only sensible choices IMHO, even if not the *only* choices. Apologies for leaving the IMHO out of the original post, but everything I write/have written/will write will be IMHO anyway, and anyone can feel free to disagree. Just don't take offence, as it ain't worth it
Cheers
Domster
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 14:01
b*llocks about buying dog food, teabags and mortgages, rather than about buying Porkers. The Porkers thing takes my mind off the dog food, otherwise I'd go 
Apologies for missing the rather obvious "Whatever I buy it would be used daily,the daily commute is about 15-20 miles each way" bit. 
I guess I think that the decision is not completely clear-cut though.
I am interested in hearing that you can get 3.2s for less than £10k - it seems that a "nice" one still costs around £15k. However, it also seems prices are falling pretty quickly at the moment so I could well be behind the times.
Cheers, James
I guess I think that the decision is not completely clear-cut though. I am interested in hearing that you can get 3.2s for less than £10k - it seems that a "nice" one still costs around £15k. However, it also seems prices are falling pretty quickly at the moment so I could well be behind the times.
Cheers, James
The sub 10k 3.2s that are any good are LHD, and can be found (with a bit of luck, as buying s/h always is) here: www.mobile.de
Cheers
Domster
PS I have been of course comparing like condition with like condition. I would choose a well cared for 3.2 for 15k over a doggy C2 for the same money. If you see what I mean. The emphasis is on the 'nice C2' part.
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 16:26
Cheers
Domster
PS I have been of course comparing like condition with like condition. I would choose a well cared for 3.2 for 15k over a doggy C2 for the same money. If you see what I mean. The emphasis is on the 'nice C2' part.
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 16:26
Loads of info I can only post from home so I catch up in the evenings!
Seems a LHD 964 looks like a good choice, even my wife likes it but she is not at all convinced about LHD, she says she won't drive it.... I am not too worried though I have not driven a LHD car in the UK so should be a laugh. My only real concern was potential resale but that does not seem to be a huge issue.
Anyway, it seems that the budget I have will probably buy one so next question, sorry if I sound dumb, but what do you guys reckon are servicing/running costs etc. This is less of an issue but it would be good to have an idea. Equally I guess LHD means slightly higher insurance?
Also has anyone bought off od www.mobile.de. There are plenty of 964s on there and a lot in Germany. I don't really want to get into private imports etc but if it is relatively easy it could be worth considering. I guess there must be companies that do this kind of thing?
The suggestion of a 3.2 is not totally off the agenda. I want to buy the best car I can and would prefer a 964 as it looks and probably drives a bit more modernly... But if the right car comes along at the right time I won't discount anything!
Finally, Twit is what I have been known as since primary school! Don't really know why, but it is great. You can't take things too seriously when that is your name. For the first two months I knew my wife she only ever new me as Twit....
Cheers etc
Twit!
I can only post from home so I catch up in the evenings! Seems a LHD 964 looks like a good choice, even my wife likes it but she is not at all convinced about LHD, she says she won't drive it....
I am not too worried though I have not driven a LHD car in the UK so should be a laugh. My only real concern was potential resale but that does not seem to be a huge issue. Anyway, it seems that the budget I have will probably buy one so next question, sorry if I sound dumb, but what do you guys reckon are servicing/running costs etc. This is less of an issue but it would be good to have an idea. Equally I guess LHD means slightly higher insurance?
Also has anyone bought off od www.mobile.de. There are plenty of 964s on there and a lot in Germany. I don't really want to get into private imports etc but if it is relatively easy it could be worth considering. I guess there must be companies that do this kind of thing?
The suggestion of a 3.2 is not totally off the agenda. I want to buy the best car I can and would prefer a 964 as it looks and probably drives a bit more modernly... But if the right car comes along at the right time I won't discount anything!
Finally, Twit is what I have been known as since primary school! Don't really know why, but it is great. You can't take things too seriously when that is your name. For the first two months I knew my wife she only ever new me as Twit....
Cheers etc
Twit!
I was speaking to iguana off line, and he was also promoting the 3.2 for 'driving feel'. I thought he'd post here, but he hasn't, so here's what he wrote to me:
After I wrote:
"I still reckon a nice sorted 964 with 70k miles is a better car than a nice sorted 3.2 with 70k miles. Beg to differ, I dare you! I'll be in quick as you
like with two words... trailing arms"
Iguana replied:
"Hmmm a 2 word retort, how about... Driver feel.
Well it's a tough one. I personally prefer the 964 BUT it is arguably not a real 911 as after 26 yrs of essentially the same chassis other than the revisions that were needed for the G50 box, it got a new chassis with totally different suspension.
A really nice 3.2 (obiously G50) (and not necesserily a CS as other than the firmer bilsteins and a few less kg its not a huge diff to the normal sport 3.2 unlike 964 to 964RS comparisons) is a joy to drive and will reward a smooth good driver.
The 964 however is much much easier to drive hard and for me much easier to really drive how I like to, ie thrashing the sh!te out of what ever I'm driving, bouncing it off the limiter and fulfilling my Walter Rohl like fantasies... So I guess I would choose the decent 964 even though the 3.2 will be worth more and hold its value better."
So there you have it, although I think the 964C2 is a more sensible choice for day to day use, and arguably the better car, to some it is not the better Porsche. Oh well, you takes your choice and all...
As for running costs, I'd budget about 2k a year for a 964 and 1.5k a year for a 3.2. This includes tyre costs, clutch costs and servicing. A typical service on a 964 is 550 compared to 350 on a 3.2, but you should only need one a year. Brake, tyre and clutch costs are not exorbitant, but I'd budget for them. The rest of my running cost guestimate is based on unforeseen work that may need doing, like heaters, sunroof, oil line leaks etc. Running a 911 is always going to be pretty reasonable as there are so many specialist independent service agents (often as little as 20 GBP per hour) and specialist dismantlers for s/h bits where suitable.
Cheers
Dom
PS Oh yeah, as ninja says, I wouldn't bother importing. I have done this twice, in the good 'ol days, when it was definitely worth it. Now, I'm not so sure, especially for your budget. You have a choice of LHD cars over here (maybe even RHD), often at extremely reasonable prices, so maybe buy a nice car that someone has imported previously. First port of call would be the PCGB magazine, Porsche Post, as the cars are enthusiast owned. If you email me, I will get hold of an issue for you, and relay some numbers of whatever Porsche you want back to you.
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 18:08
After I wrote:
"I still reckon a nice sorted 964 with 70k miles is a better car than a nice sorted 3.2 with 70k miles. Beg to differ, I dare you! I'll be in quick as you
like with two words... trailing arms
" Iguana replied:
"Hmmm a 2 word retort, how about... Driver feel.
Well it's a tough one. I personally prefer the 964 BUT it is arguably not a real 911 as after 26 yrs of essentially the same chassis other than the revisions that were needed for the G50 box, it got a new chassis with totally different suspension.
A really nice 3.2 (obiously G50) (and not necesserily a CS as other than the firmer bilsteins and a few less kg its not a huge diff to the normal sport 3.2 unlike 964 to 964RS comparisons) is a joy to drive and will reward a smooth good driver.
The 964 however is much much easier to drive hard and for me much easier to really drive how I like to, ie thrashing the sh!te out of what ever I'm driving, bouncing it off the limiter and fulfilling my Walter Rohl like fantasies... So I guess I would choose the decent 964 even though the 3.2 will be worth more and hold its value better."
So there you have it, although I think the 964C2 is a more sensible choice for day to day use, and arguably the better car, to some it is not the better Porsche. Oh well, you takes your choice and all...
As for running costs, I'd budget about 2k a year for a 964 and 1.5k a year for a 3.2. This includes tyre costs, clutch costs and servicing. A typical service on a 964 is 550 compared to 350 on a 3.2, but you should only need one a year. Brake, tyre and clutch costs are not exorbitant, but I'd budget for them. The rest of my running cost guestimate is based on unforeseen work that may need doing, like heaters, sunroof, oil line leaks etc. Running a 911 is always going to be pretty reasonable as there are so many specialist independent service agents (often as little as 20 GBP per hour) and specialist dismantlers for s/h bits where suitable.
Cheers
Dom
PS Oh yeah, as ninja says, I wouldn't bother importing. I have done this twice, in the good 'ol days, when it was definitely worth it. Now, I'm not so sure, especially for your budget. You have a choice of LHD cars over here (maybe even RHD), often at extremely reasonable prices, so maybe buy a nice car that someone has imported previously. First port of call would be the PCGB magazine, Porsche Post, as the cars are enthusiast owned. If you email me, I will get hold of an issue for you, and relay some numbers of whatever Porsche you want back to you.
>> Edited by domster on Wednesday 23 October 18:08
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