What rights apply to a private sale?
Discussion
Sorry if this topic bores people to death.
I have a friend who bought a BMW Z4 from a private seller, who seemed very honest. Took videos of the car and lots of photos. Since he was so far away he decided to buy the car without seeing it and get it delivered.
Unfortunately upon arrival after 15 mins or so of driving it an engine management light came on and the car lost power. He took it to a garage to get it diagnosed and the garage said that the car is misfiring but they can see a number of parts relating to the issue have already been replaced.
He is being advised that 1979 sale of goods act applies and that omission of of any faults with the car is considered misrepresentation.
Does he have a leg to stand on? Is he being given wrong advice? I always thought private sales are generally sold as seen.
I have a friend who bought a BMW Z4 from a private seller, who seemed very honest. Took videos of the car and lots of photos. Since he was so far away he decided to buy the car without seeing it and get it delivered.
Unfortunately upon arrival after 15 mins or so of driving it an engine management light came on and the car lost power. He took it to a garage to get it diagnosed and the garage said that the car is misfiring but they can see a number of parts relating to the issue have already been replaced.
He is being advised that 1979 sale of goods act applies and that omission of of any faults with the car is considered misrepresentation.
Does he have a leg to stand on? Is he being given wrong advice? I always thought private sales are generally sold as seen.
Depends what was disclosed and what was asked. If the seller lied when asked if it had any issues or the seller stated in an advert etc that it was fault free or runs perfect etc then there might be a case that it was misrepresented, but it could be tricky and drawn out - for example as the engine management light wasn't on when it arrived and theres clearly parts been fitted recently the seller could claim he thought it was fixed and decided to move the car on.
Difficult one. Don't think it's as clean cut as yes/no.
Difficult one. Don't think it's as clean cut as yes/no.
Consumer goods act doesn’t cover private sale and the motor ombudsman won’t look into it as it’s not a business. The only thing you can do is if you think you can prove the seller knew there was a fault, and didn’t tell you about it you can take them to court, good luck with that one though. Citizens advice may be able to advise further but I think and advice will be the the same end.
You always take the much higher risk buying privately, should you have bought that car from a dealer, delivered you can reject it unquestionably under the distance selling regulations.
I think your friend would be better chasing the source of the misfire and just getting on with it tbh, if some of the parts have already been changed then there won’t be much left to diagnose.
You always take the much higher risk buying privately, should you have bought that car from a dealer, delivered you can reject it unquestionably under the distance selling regulations.
I think your friend would be better chasing the source of the misfire and just getting on with it tbh, if some of the parts have already been changed then there won’t be much left to diagnose.
Edited by Edible Roadkill on Tuesday 14th February 12:12
Although it sound like the previous owner tried to fix it, hasn't been able to, and has punted it on. I did this when my 206 GTi had the 'randomly cutting out fault' that went to Watchdog but Peugeot never resolved... still, I sold to a dealer so at least the next owner would have had some come back!
aceofspades1 said:
Sorry if this topic bores people to death.
I have a friend who bought a BMW Z4 from a private seller, who seemed very honest. Took videos of the car and lots of photos. Since he was so far away he decided to buy the car without seeing it and get it delivered.
Unfortunately upon arrival after 15 mins or so of driving it an engine management light came on and the car lost power. He took it to a garage to get it diagnosed and the garage said that the car is misfiring but they can see a number of parts relating to the issue have already been replaced.
He is being advised that 1979 sale of goods act applies and that omission of of any faults with the car is considered misrepresentation.
Does he have a leg to stand on? Is he being given wrong advice? I always thought private sales are generally sold as seen.
Private sale - caveat emptor.I have a friend who bought a BMW Z4 from a private seller, who seemed very honest. Took videos of the car and lots of photos. Since he was so far away he decided to buy the car without seeing it and get it delivered.
Unfortunately upon arrival after 15 mins or so of driving it an engine management light came on and the car lost power. He took it to a garage to get it diagnosed and the garage said that the car is misfiring but they can see a number of parts relating to the issue have already been replaced.
He is being advised that 1979 sale of goods act applies and that omission of of any faults with the car is considered misrepresentation.
Does he have a leg to stand on? Is he being given wrong advice? I always thought private sales are generally sold as seen.
Unless it's something obvious like "The car has a full service history" but has absolutely zero paperwork.
If you want legal protection, buy from a dealer (that's why they are more money!)
Unless the advert said "The car has never had any misfires" but there are a lot of receipts within the last 2-3 weeks showing "Car brought in for a mis fire and was not fixed".
Basically, tough luck. It is what it is.
You have much reduced rights when buying privately. Effectively the rights you have are:
The seller should have the legal right to sell it, so own it or be given permission to sell it. It should be roadworthy, so even if it has 6 months MOT left that is not an indication its roadworthy. And it should be as described matching the description of the seller.
Depends on what the car advert said in terms of the description, but you are on difficult ground to prove that an engine fault was misrepresented at sale.
Ultimately, the guy took a huge gamble paying up front, without viewing, and getting it delivered. And in this case it hasn't paid off.
The seller should have the legal right to sell it, so own it or be given permission to sell it. It should be roadworthy, so even if it has 6 months MOT left that is not an indication its roadworthy. And it should be as described matching the description of the seller.
Depends on what the car advert said in terms of the description, but you are on difficult ground to prove that an engine fault was misrepresented at sale.
Ultimately, the guy took a huge gamble paying up front, without viewing, and getting it delivered. And in this case it hasn't paid off.
coldel said:
You have much reduced rights when buying privately. Effectively the rights you have are:
The seller should have the legal right to sell it, so own it or be given permission to sell it. It should be roadworthy, so even if it has 6 months MOT left that is not an indication its roadworthy. And it should be as described matching the description of the seller.
Depends on what the car advert said in terms of the description, but you are on difficult ground to prove that an engine fault was misrepresented at sale.
Ultimately, the guy took a huge gamble paying up front, without viewing, and getting it delivered. And in this case it hasn't paid off.
Yeah, basically the guy admits he took a risk and is prepared to cut his losses. However a guy we know is insisting he has taken a private seller to court before under the 1979 sale of goods act and won based on not declaring faults.The seller should have the legal right to sell it, so own it or be given permission to sell it. It should be roadworthy, so even if it has 6 months MOT left that is not an indication its roadworthy. And it should be as described matching the description of the seller.
Depends on what the car advert said in terms of the description, but you are on difficult ground to prove that an engine fault was misrepresented at sale.
Ultimately, the guy took a huge gamble paying up front, without viewing, and getting it delivered. And in this case it hasn't paid off.
I always was skeptical this was true because all of my own cars are in perfect working order but I am well aware especially with a performance car any issue could develop conceivably without my knowledge even as a car enthusiast and it wouldn’t be misrepresentation. I was under the impression that only if you knew about a fault and lied could it be considered misrepresentation.
He sent a video of the car running and driving well so I think we may not have a leg to stand on.
Thank you for the reply.
Sheepshanks said:
aceofspades1 said:
....won based on not declaring faults.
They only have to be declared if specifically asked about. Or the advert claimed things that aren't true.Dig out the advert, check the wording, see if he has misrepresented it. You would then have to discuss with the seller if you think you have a case what next. If they dont play ball then its claims court, but be ready to suck up costs if it doesn't go your mates way.
aceofspades1 said:
However a guy we know is insisting he has taken a private seller to court before under the 1979 sale of goods act and won based on not declaring faults.
This will not be accurate. He may have gone to court and won based on mis-described faults, but not on undeclared ones. Private seller has no obligation to tell you what is wrong with the car you're about to buy.
Who delivered the vehicle ? Was it driven, if so, how far?
I only ask as seller may well have been genuine and 'repaired' the fault, which hasn't re-occurred for some time.....and then a long drive (at potentially high speed/high revs) ended up causing the issue to return?
I'm thinking perhaps a sensor come loose, an air leak or something going out of range etc - in which case, the seller can't really be held responsible.
I only ask as seller may well have been genuine and 'repaired' the fault, which hasn't re-occurred for some time.....and then a long drive (at potentially high speed/high revs) ended up causing the issue to return?
I'm thinking perhaps a sensor come loose, an air leak or something going out of range etc - in which case, the seller can't really be held responsible.
You've got no hope, realistically. Unless you've got evidence that the vehicle was sold as running perfectly with no faults and can prove categorically that the fault existed before you bought it then you're out of luck. Caveat emptor, I'm afraid. Even if you can prove it, you'd have to go to court and that will be a lot of time and effort. Then actually getting the money is a further farce.
SOGA has been updated to Consumer Rights Act of 2015 I believe, too.
SOGA has been updated to Consumer Rights Act of 2015 I believe, too.
RazerSauber said:
You've got no hope, realistically. Unless you've got evidence that the vehicle was sold as running perfectly with no faults and can prove categorically that the fault existed before you bought it then you're out of luck. Caveat emptor, I'm afraid. Even if you can prove it, you'd have to go to court and that will be a lot of time and effort. Then actually getting the money is a further farce.
SOGA has been updated to Consumer Rights Act of 2015 I believe, too.
Even with the bold part being the case, you still wouldn't win a case against a private seller who didn't mis-describe it.SOGA has been updated to Consumer Rights Act of 2015 I believe, too.
aceofspades1 said:
Thank you everyone for the replies.
I personally agree with everyone that it’s not worth it, I just wanted to make sure I was on the right page before arguing as this other chap insists he was able to take someone to court for an undeclared fault.
He either is telling porkies, or he did take the to court for missdescribed rather than not declared and doesnt realise the difference. I personally agree with everyone that it’s not worth it, I just wanted to make sure I was on the right page before arguing as this other chap insists he was able to take someone to court for an undeclared fault.
But yes, case of suck it up and pay. Even taking it to a dealer will probably mean a bigger loss potentially than fixing it.
One of my past cars had a major and expensive fault which I didn't find until a few days after buying it privately, it was perfectly drivable but just meant one of the features of the car couldn't be used. I advertised it for sale privately at a vastly reduced price whilst highlighting the fault, and had no interest so I ended up selling it to to one of the big car buying companies that advertise on TV for a pittance, having not declared the fault. They inspected the car but didn't inspect the part that was faulty. I lost quite a few £££ thousand on that one.
No way could I sell it privately without declaring the fault, just a shame the person who sold it to me didn't have the same moral values.
No way could I sell it privately without declaring the fault, just a shame the person who sold it to me didn't have the same moral values.
Edited by Big Stevie on Tuesday 14th February 16:56
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