Will Haas be the next team to disappear?
Discussion
Tazar said:
Haas don’t seem to be the best funded team in current F1 so will the various lawsuits against them make them disappear?
Can’t see it, no matter how many lawsuits. Thanks to the new “Concorde” agreement, with the famous $200m entry fee, the assets of an extant F1 team are in the $500m range, including their Championship entry and associated prize money futures. The teams want to raise that $200m to $500m from 2025, in which case an extant F1 team becomes worth at least $800m. Even Haas, with their limited factory and extensive outsourcing operation. There’s plenty of organisations wanting to buy into F1, if they can find someone willing to sell. Right now, no-one is selling. Eventually, the price will be high enough for someone to take the money - most likely Dorilton at Williams.
Weird thread, no team is disappearing for reasons already explained.
Fundoreen said:
Why would someone even start a thread like this? Who are the previous team that just vanished?
Haas are in the strongest position since joining f1. Can only assume its disgruntled Shumi jr fan or uncle.
Most recently Caterham and Manor / Marussia, 2014 and 2015. Haas are in the strongest position since joining f1. Can only assume its disgruntled Shumi jr fan or uncle.
Sandpit Steve said:
Tazar said:
Haas don’t seem to be the best funded team in current F1 so will the various lawsuits against them make them disappear?
Can’t see it, no matter how many lawsuits. Thanks to the new “Concorde” agreement, with the famous $200m entry fee, the assets of an extant F1 team are in the $500m range, including their Championship entry and associated prize money futures. The teams want to raise that $200m to $500m from 2025, in which case an extant F1 team becomes worth at least $800m. Even Haas, with their limited factory and extensive outsourcing operation. There’s plenty of organisations wanting to buy into F1, if they can find someone willing to sell. Right now, no-one is selling. Eventually, the price will be high enough for someone to take the money - most likely Dorilton at Williams.
Even without the anticipated hike in team revenues, Hass will stay in F1 for as long as Gene Hass remains interested in them doing so. He is a very, very wealthy person and head of a very, very wealthy and successful business, positions that are not gained through a propensity for ego-trips such as the frivolity of F1 that some seem to assume him pursuing.
gt_12345 said:
They're only worth what someone is willing to pay, not whatever value the CA says.
Supply and demand. At the moment F1 is a closed shop, as Andretti is finding out, and the price of entry is very high, if you can find an entry at all. In this scenario a team can almost name its price, especially if there are multiple potential bidders (Andretti, Porsche and others currently sniffing around any opportunity to buy in). Current logic suggests that the minimum sale price for a team is now the enterprise value of the team plus $200m, as that is the minimum start up cost for a new team if one could be started from scratch. The team owners know this, and it's unlikely any would willingly sell for a lower price, unless they really needed to sell.Fundoreen said:
Why would someone even start a thread like this? Who are the previous team that just vanished?
Haas are in the strongest position since joining f1. Can only assume its disgruntled Shumi jr fan or uncle.
Hard to say really. Haas are in the strongest position since joining f1. Can only assume its disgruntled Shumi jr fan or uncle.
It was only a couple of years ago Michael Andretti came out and said Gene Haas was "funny dude" when he tried to takeover Haas and the team was more or less Haas-Team Mazipin.
Like Williams, Haas are in danger of being a yo-yo team. All it takes is another bad car to become perennial tail-end Charlies and endless months of doom and gloom.
DaveTheRave87 said:
I don't know if they'll be next, there's always a chance that the boardroom at a major motoring manufacturer wakes up 1 day and decides to pull the plug.
I think the cost cap has helped and the change in Mercedes reputation with young people.Mercedes were always for old men with or without money never the youngsters.
Now thay have a huge younger following and car lineup.
I imagine cadelac are trying the same.
vaud said:
HustleRussell said:
Most recently Caterham and Manor / Marussia, 2014 and 2015.
True but they were promised a cost cap, or at least some control over spending that never materialised in their era.Leithen said:
One can only hope. Their participation makes a mockery of the sport on multiple levels.
They are a part of F1 as much as Red Bull, Ferrari or Mercedes. If you qualify you get on the grid. If you want a series with identical cars there’s plenty of one make championships out there for you to watch. Oneball said:
Leithen said:
One can only hope. Their participation makes a mockery of the sport on multiple levels.
They are a part of F1 as much as Red Bull, Ferrari or Mercedes. If you qualify you get on the grid. If you want a series with identical cars there’s plenty of one make championships out there for you to watch. Leithen said:
Oneball said:
Leithen said:
One can only hope. Their participation makes a mockery of the sport on multiple levels.
They are a part of F1 as much as Red Bull, Ferrari or Mercedes. If you qualify you get on the grid. If you want a series with identical cars there’s plenty of one make championships out there for you to watch. How granular would you like to go? In order to satisfy your lust for teams to do everything themselves, do they need to machine every nut and screw, and mould every cable tie and clip. Are you happy with them buying wire for their electronics, or should they smelt their own copper, and invest in wire drawing and coating machines?
Without the ability to be able to utilise technology from the likes of Ferrari, Mercedes and to a lesser extent Red Bull or Renault, there would be no way that a Williams, Sauber, Alpha Tauri or McLaren could exist.
HAAS appear happy to use the maximum amount of TRCs permissible, with no apparent roadmap to increase their own IP. If F1 wasn’t a closed shop that might be fine. Indeed if F1 had a larger grid and a process to continually allow new entries to qualify, I’d argue for a return to March and Hesketh.
But it doesn’t and the current cabal are content in maximising the value of their businesses and claiming the right to choose their competitors. There are obvious candidates who have far more sporting credibility than HAAS, but they will continue to occupy the grid regardless.
But it doesn’t and the current cabal are content in maximising the value of their businesses and claiming the right to choose their competitors. There are obvious candidates who have far more sporting credibility than HAAS, but they will continue to occupy the grid regardless.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff