How have they worked this out then?
Discussion
I've read this headline a few times now and am honestly stumped at A) why this would ever be the case, and B) how on earth they came to such a conclusion? Given that 'all pigs are created equal' it just makes The Beeb (or author of the article at least) seem a poor, misguided fool.. Even further, are they trying to say Lewis Hamilton is twice as good as any other driver on the Formula One grid, by dint of his skin colour? Ffs 
Of course motorsport is the least meritocratic sport there is, so 'being good' has very little to do with overall success.
I'm sure you can argue that people of colour, or women, or working class drivers all have have a harder time than a member of the aristocracy or the son of a famous driver etc. who can just open their wallet or have the contacts to drum up some sponsorship money.
I'm sure you can argue that people of colour, or women, or working class drivers all have have a harder time than a member of the aristocracy or the son of a famous driver etc. who can just open their wallet or have the contacts to drum up some sponsorship money.
Truckosaurus said:
I'm sure you can argue that people of colour, or women, or working class drivers all have have a harder time than a member of the aristocracy or the son of a famous driver etc. who can just open their wallet or have the contacts to drum up some sponsorship money.
That explains it very well. It is a privileged sport, and harder for some than others to get into and progress to the higher levels, irrespective of colour.I saw this earlier, if you are good enough money will fall out of people wallets to get you involved in upper tier stuff as it did with lewis, it is the same reason why even half decent women in motorsport do not get anywhere, they are simply not good enough to warrant the investment. Lewis was obviously so good early on he was held back in certain formula's, Dennis KNEW he was destined for f1 so did not need to push him. That is what being God tier is all about.
it is a BBC article and right up their street, this is their agenda to a tee, and there may be some truth in it, but from speaking to several people who have karted and been involved with karts, both black drivers and women are simply not good enough oftentimes, it is the same story, very small demographic and expecting the silver bullet like Lewis to come around more than once a life time is a tough ask indeed. It is a fair article but very loaded as most stuff is on the Beeb these days.
Lewis is doing the right thing, getting involved, it can only help, I have said for years the reason black and other race people are not represented either as fans or drivers is largely cultural. They are just not interested in racing, they do not see the need, point or anything. Sweeping statement obviously but in comparison to white men you have to say it is true. And there is nothing wrong with this, I am not interested in horse racing, but it exists.
I can 100% guarantee that if you went to Jap fest at Silverstone you would see a far higher black/Asian representation than at any race meeting at the same place, including F1. I cannot tell you why for sure, maybe style, tuning, looking good, being the best, wildest is more of a thing than going round a track, who cares, it works and is very popular and makes people a ton of money in niche industries and the people involved love it.
It is rare to be at a race meeting and see a lot of black fans, it is getting better in my opinion, but you very rarely see black competitors. Is this representative, I don't know, how do you really measure that? I think most of us live in towns where we see a higher number of black/Asian people, so presume that must be everywhere, and when you hardly see any at race meetings you presume, maybe wrongly that they are not interested?
it is a BBC article and right up their street, this is their agenda to a tee, and there may be some truth in it, but from speaking to several people who have karted and been involved with karts, both black drivers and women are simply not good enough oftentimes, it is the same story, very small demographic and expecting the silver bullet like Lewis to come around more than once a life time is a tough ask indeed. It is a fair article but very loaded as most stuff is on the Beeb these days.
Lewis is doing the right thing, getting involved, it can only help, I have said for years the reason black and other race people are not represented either as fans or drivers is largely cultural. They are just not interested in racing, they do not see the need, point or anything. Sweeping statement obviously but in comparison to white men you have to say it is true. And there is nothing wrong with this, I am not interested in horse racing, but it exists.
I can 100% guarantee that if you went to Jap fest at Silverstone you would see a far higher black/Asian representation than at any race meeting at the same place, including F1. I cannot tell you why for sure, maybe style, tuning, looking good, being the best, wildest is more of a thing than going round a track, who cares, it works and is very popular and makes people a ton of money in niche industries and the people involved love it.
It is rare to be at a race meeting and see a lot of black fans, it is getting better in my opinion, but you very rarely see black competitors. Is this representative, I don't know, how do you really measure that? I think most of us live in towns where we see a higher number of black/Asian people, so presume that must be everywhere, and when you hardly see any at race meetings you presume, maybe wrongly that they are not interested?
They didn’t work it out, it’s a quote from someone’s dad, just a headline to get you to read the article and then watch the TV show. It’s not news. It’s advertising.
As far as I’m concerned if we can get more women and more black/Asian people involved in motorsport it’s for the better. We need bigger grids and we need more spectators, motorsport’s popularity in this country is on the wane.
As far as I’m concerned if we can get more women and more black/Asian people involved in motorsport it’s for the better. We need bigger grids and we need more spectators, motorsport’s popularity in this country is on the wane.
Chunkychucky said:
I've read this headline a few times now and am honestly stumped at A) why this would ever be the case, and B) how on earth they came to such a conclusion? Given that 'all pigs are created equal' it just makes The Beeb (or author of the article at least) seem a poor, misguided fool.. Even further, are they trying to say Lewis Hamilton is twice as good as any other driver on the Formula One grid, by dint of his skin colour? Ffs
"They" isn't the BBC or the author. Look at the title and notice the quotation marks. It's a quote from Steve Stanislaus who is one of the dads in the program so it's his personal opinion.Personally I think he's glossing over the lack of budget. He mentions that the front of the grid is all about the wealthiest without seeming to realise that there are white people without the big budgets back in the pack as well.
Perhaps what he should have said is that his son has to work twice as hard which would be a better way of expressing it.
I can recommend Uppity - the film of Willy T Ribbs life. I think you need to walk in another man's shoes before you can fully appreciate what it is like .
As Luke says , Black and Asian drivers and spectators (of both sexes) are relatively common in genres like drag racing , Straightliners and Time Attack but almost completely absent from circuit racing and speed hillclimbs etc . The reasons are , I suspect , a combination of cultural, financial and geographical .
As Luke says , Black and Asian drivers and spectators (of both sexes) are relatively common in genres like drag racing , Straightliners and Time Attack but almost completely absent from circuit racing and speed hillclimbs etc . The reasons are , I suspect , a combination of cultural, financial and geographical .
LukeBrown66 said:
I saw this earlier, if you are good enough money will fall out of people wallets to get you involved in upper tier stuff as it did with lewis, it is the same reason why even half decent women in motorsport do not get anywhere, they are simply not good enough to warrant the investment. Lewis was obviously so good early on he was held back in certain formula's, Dennis KNEW he was destined for f1 so did not need to push him. That is what being God tier is all about.
it is a BBC article and right up their street, this is their agenda to a tee, and there may be some truth in it, but from speaking to several people who have karted and been involved with karts, both black drivers and women are simply not good enough oftentimes, it is the same story, very small demographic and expecting the silver bullet like Lewis to come around more than once a life time is a tough ask indeed. It is a fair article but very loaded as most stuff is on the Beeb these days.
Lewis is doing the right thing, getting involved, it can only help, I have said for years the reason black and other race people are not represented either as fans or drivers is largely cultural. They are just not interested in racing, they do not see the need, point or anything. Sweeping statement obviously but in comparison to white men you have to say it is true. And there is nothing wrong with this, I am not interested in horse racing, but it exists.
I can 100% guarantee that if you went to Jap fest at Silverstone you would see a far higher black/Asian representation than at any race meeting at the same place, including F1. I cannot tell you why for sure, maybe style, tuning, looking good, being the best, wildest is more of a thing than going round a track, who cares, it works and is very popular and makes people a ton of money in niche industries and the people involved love it.
It is rare to be at a race meeting and see a lot of black fans, it is getting better in my opinion, but you very rarely see black competitors. Is this representative, I don't know, how do you really measure that? I think most of us live in towns where we see a higher number of black/Asian people, so presume that must be everywhere, and when you hardly see any at race meetings you presume, maybe wrongly that they are not interested?
Luke, I love this post. I'm getting pretty tired of white people copy and pasting their culture to achieve EDI objectives and being confused as to why it doesn't stick. I'm so glad Lewis made it, and uses his platform to tell the masses that regardless of the barriers - you can make it.it is a BBC article and right up their street, this is their agenda to a tee, and there may be some truth in it, but from speaking to several people who have karted and been involved with karts, both black drivers and women are simply not good enough oftentimes, it is the same story, very small demographic and expecting the silver bullet like Lewis to come around more than once a life time is a tough ask indeed. It is a fair article but very loaded as most stuff is on the Beeb these days.
Lewis is doing the right thing, getting involved, it can only help, I have said for years the reason black and other race people are not represented either as fans or drivers is largely cultural. They are just not interested in racing, they do not see the need, point or anything. Sweeping statement obviously but in comparison to white men you have to say it is true. And there is nothing wrong with this, I am not interested in horse racing, but it exists.
I can 100% guarantee that if you went to Jap fest at Silverstone you would see a far higher black/Asian representation than at any race meeting at the same place, including F1. I cannot tell you why for sure, maybe style, tuning, looking good, being the best, wildest is more of a thing than going round a track, who cares, it works and is very popular and makes people a ton of money in niche industries and the people involved love it.
It is rare to be at a race meeting and see a lot of black fans, it is getting better in my opinion, but you very rarely see black competitors. Is this representative, I don't know, how do you really measure that? I think most of us live in towns where we see a higher number of black/Asian people, so presume that must be everywhere, and when you hardly see any at race meetings you presume, maybe wrongly that they are not interested?
I think you can compare women in motorsport to black drivers and perhaps even some aspects of Asian drivers.
There are loads of places where there is very little output from countries even if racing is popular there. South America used to be a hotbed, yet still you tend to only get drivers from Brazil and now and again Mexico and odd countries, there is very little interest in Africa, and you can perhaps link that to no exposure and the obvious demands of budget and the like.
Asia has always fascinated me, Japan particularly. As a youth I followed GP bike racing and the 125 and 250 classes were numerically very popular with Japanese riders, championships were won, some riders only ever stayed in those classes (size being a big part), there were Japanese teams, big money, and that has almost completely died now, something has changed in japan to move bike racing on and be replaced by something else I do not know what!
In terms of women and to some extent black drivers it is about picking from a very small crop. let's make up numbers and suggest that maybe 100 people every year start driving, of that 1000, maybe less than 10 each are black or female, the chances of another Lewis are staggeringly thin. But, it has happened as it did in golf with Tiger Woods who interestingly now is often seen playing with his son who is obviously going to be a fabulous golfer too.
But, I do believe there is a clear cultural issue here. And in the UK this faces Asian and black men, the vast majority of which who like cars are not really interested in motorsport for some reason, they might enjoy drifting or drag racing, might like to show off and spend money on their cars, and they might also occasionally go to tracks and watch, but their involvement is about style, looks, tuning, and the like, not about competing mano o mano on track.
Again, a small percentage of them will like acing, which is how we got Lewis, and that has hope attached that it might happen again. But to appeal to the majority of them needs a new approach, and perhaps a culture change not only from them but from motorsport in general. And I do not see that happening as in the UK at least it is usually run by fuddy duddy men, obsessed with rules and regulations, making money and looking after themselves. A new outlook is needed to recruit new people of any colour, and it is not happening.
There are loads of places where there is very little output from countries even if racing is popular there. South America used to be a hotbed, yet still you tend to only get drivers from Brazil and now and again Mexico and odd countries, there is very little interest in Africa, and you can perhaps link that to no exposure and the obvious demands of budget and the like.
Asia has always fascinated me, Japan particularly. As a youth I followed GP bike racing and the 125 and 250 classes were numerically very popular with Japanese riders, championships were won, some riders only ever stayed in those classes (size being a big part), there were Japanese teams, big money, and that has almost completely died now, something has changed in japan to move bike racing on and be replaced by something else I do not know what!
In terms of women and to some extent black drivers it is about picking from a very small crop. let's make up numbers and suggest that maybe 100 people every year start driving, of that 1000, maybe less than 10 each are black or female, the chances of another Lewis are staggeringly thin. But, it has happened as it did in golf with Tiger Woods who interestingly now is often seen playing with his son who is obviously going to be a fabulous golfer too.
But, I do believe there is a clear cultural issue here. And in the UK this faces Asian and black men, the vast majority of which who like cars are not really interested in motorsport for some reason, they might enjoy drifting or drag racing, might like to show off and spend money on their cars, and they might also occasionally go to tracks and watch, but their involvement is about style, looks, tuning, and the like, not about competing mano o mano on track.
Again, a small percentage of them will like acing, which is how we got Lewis, and that has hope attached that it might happen again. But to appeal to the majority of them needs a new approach, and perhaps a culture change not only from them but from motorsport in general. And I do not see that happening as in the UK at least it is usually run by fuddy duddy men, obsessed with rules and regulations, making money and looking after themselves. A new outlook is needed to recruit new people of any colour, and it is not happening.
Terminator X said:
Surely getting to the top in Motorsport is about contacts. Rinse and repeat for any sport.
TX.
Contacts/connections, plus more than anything else ...... motivation!TX.
That motivation isn't necessarily a personal one, and in many (most?) cases, it comes from family members encouraging / pushing individuals down a path. See Jos Verstappen / Anthony Hamilton / John Button, and maybe some time soon Kimi encouraging Robin.
Is there a disproportionate number of fathers pushing sons towards motorsport, and not daughters? Yep!
Is there a similar difference in likelihood of families from different genetic origins pushing their children into karts and cars? Maybe.
Is there a different likelihood that a family with greater financial means is able to support their children's chosen sports or past times? Of course.
Tough one is whether a sample of families of broadly equal financial means are going to choose (or be pestered to choose) motorsport as their exploit for their children.
It isn't a case of being twice as good.
If you are 1% better than the good drivers at lower levels you will get the opportunities regardless of colour - I think Hamilton was at least 1% better but not 100% better. In motor racing 1% is a huge margin, more than a second a lap.
Most may be 1% worse so no chance of getting the opportunity.
Margins between success and failure are small in a sport where, globally, there are a very small number of places (20 in F1, maybe a few more in F2).
If you are 1% better than the good drivers at lower levels you will get the opportunities regardless of colour - I think Hamilton was at least 1% better but not 100% better. In motor racing 1% is a huge margin, more than a second a lap.
Most may be 1% worse so no chance of getting the opportunity.
Margins between success and failure are small in a sport where, globally, there are a very small number of places (20 in F1, maybe a few more in F2).
IJWS15 said:
It isn't a case of being twice as good.
If you are 1% better than the good drivers at lower levels you will get the opportunities regardless of colour - I think Hamilton was at least 1% better but not 100% better. In motor racing 1% is a huge margin, more than a second a lap.
Most may be 1% worse so no chance of getting the opportunity.
Margins between success and failure are small in a sport where, globally, there are a very small number of places (20 in F1, maybe a few more in F2).
It would be nice if that was true but it's not. There are many drivers in series who are 1% better than many drivers in F1, let alone when they were in lower series, but they aren't there. Not to mention the others that beat many of the top "stars" in karts and lower series who no longer race at all.If you are 1% better than the good drivers at lower levels you will get the opportunities regardless of colour - I think Hamilton was at least 1% better but not 100% better. In motor racing 1% is a huge margin, more than a second a lap.
Most may be 1% worse so no chance of getting the opportunity.
Margins between success and failure are small in a sport where, globally, there are a very small number of places (20 in F1, maybe a few more in F2).
JoelH said:
IJWS15 said:
It isn't a case of being twice as good.
If you are 1% better than the good drivers at lower levels you will get the opportunities regardless of colour - I think Hamilton was at least 1% better but not 100% better. In motor racing 1% is a huge margin, more than a second a lap.
Most may be 1% worse so no chance of getting the opportunity.
Margins between success and failure are small in a sport where, globally, there are a very small number of places (20 in F1, maybe a few more in F2).
It would be nice if that was true but it's not. There are many drivers in series who are 1% better than many drivers in F1, let alone when they were in lower series, but they aren't there. Not to mention the others that beat many of the top "stars" in karts and lower series who no longer race at all.If you are 1% better than the good drivers at lower levels you will get the opportunities regardless of colour - I think Hamilton was at least 1% better but not 100% better. In motor racing 1% is a huge margin, more than a second a lap.
Most may be 1% worse so no chance of getting the opportunity.
Margins between success and failure are small in a sport where, globally, there are a very small number of places (20 in F1, maybe a few more in F2).
Of young drivers coming through karting series across the globe, there isn't the same kind of talent scout culture looking for the next signs of brilliance, that there is for football for example. These scouts and programmes do exist, but the drivers progressing towards the highest classes are far more nurture over nature (with nuture being fund, educate, develop), where as football might be nature first.
Arguably motorcycle racing is somewhere in the middle, where natural talent will shine through more brightly than with four wheels.
The issue you have with bike racing though is that the entire sport at an elite level is owned and run in Spain, so unless a talent is picked up from a local academy say in China, Germany or Britain or elsewhere very early they miss out, they HAVE to run in series in Spain or they do not get noticed or picked up by all the teams out there. SO they have to be noticed aged 12-14, get to Spain run there or in Rookies and then push on from that. You cannot stay in China and hope tog et picked up
It used to be the case you could run in a European series or a few top level national series and get picked up, but not anymore, if you are 18 winning at national level you are probably already too old as there will be 20 Spanish kids aged 15 already at a higher level than you.
This is why state sponsored almost motorsport is and can be very dangerous to other nations.
It used to be the case you could run in a European series or a few top level national series and get picked up, but not anymore, if you are 18 winning at national level you are probably already too old as there will be 20 Spanish kids aged 15 already at a higher level than you.
This is why state sponsored almost motorsport is and can be very dangerous to other nations.
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