PPI on 997.1 for bore scoring: is it a 18/20 value

[Andre_Sant]

good morning everyone, I am in the process of buying a 2007 porsche 997.1 4s targa.
Prior to purchase I had a PPI done, specifically I asked for cylinder compression testing for bore scoring. I should mention that the car shows no symptoms or problems.

The result was as follows:
cylinder 6 seal: 18/20
cylinder 5 seal: 20/20
cylinder 4 seal: 19/20
cylinder seal 3: 19/20
cylinder seal 2: 20/20
cylinder seal 1: 19/20
Cylinder 6, which as we know is the most critical on these cars for bore scoring, seemed a little low compared to the values of the other cylinders.

According to the porsche centre the values are ok, but at that porsche centre they didn't seem very aware of the bore scoring problem.

I wanted to ask you guys what you think.
Thank you very much

[northernmedia]

I'd want a borescope rather than a compression test.

[Andre_Sant]

Thanks for your answer.
I will try so ask for it to the seller, but what do you think about the compression results?
thank you

[FarQue]

As already mentioned - you need someone who has looked down lots of 997 bores to check it. I've never seen anyone suggest that a compression test is good for checking bore-score on a 997.

[Brisvegas 997C2S]

Yep, you need a Borescope to be sure a compression test isn't going to tell you what you are looking for. You also need someone with experience of what's good and what's bad to get a proper understanding too

Where about is the car? Definitely do not buy a 997.1 without a borescope though, you'd be mad to do so.

[dgswk]

I'm in the process of buying a 997.1 3.8S Cab at the moment. Lovely car, on the surface immaculate and lowish miles. Knowing a borescored rebuild is a £10-15k bill, plus any other issues.... suspension, radiators, condensers, pipework, brakes etc., I have asked the dealer to take it to a local Porsche Indy, and I'm paying £300ish plus VAT for a 4hr PPI and full Borescope inspection.

It may come back clean and I'll happily pay the asking price, any immediate issues and we'll have a haggle depending on seriousness etc.

Wouldn't take it to a Porsche main dealer, I just get the feeling that at the £25-£35k 996/7 end of the market, Indy's have far more experience of them. Every service book I've looked at seems to have well respected Indy stamps for the last 5-7 years once the warranty had run out.

My day of reckoning is Monday!

Good luck!

Edited by dgswk on Tuesday 17th January 12:45

[Discombobulate]

Andre_Sant said:

good morning everyone, I am in the process of buying a 2007 porsche 997.1 4s targa.
Prior to purchase I had a PPI done, specifically I asked for cylinder compression testing for bore scoring. I should mention that the car shows no symptoms or problems.

The result was as follows:
cylinder 6 seal: 18/20
cylinder 5 seal: 20/20
cylinder 4 seal: 19/20
cylinder seal 3: 19/20
cylinder seal 2: 20/20
cylinder seal 1: 19/20
Cylinder 6, which as we know is the most critical on these cars for bore scoring, seemed a little low compared to the values of the other cylinders.

According to the porsche centre the values are ok, but at that porsche centre they didn't seem very aware of the bore scoring problem.

I wanted to ask you guys what you think.
Thank you very much

[Discombobulate]

Andre_Sant said:

good morning everyone, I am in the process of buying a 2007 porsche 997.1 4s targa.
Prior to purchase I had a PPI done, specifically I asked for cylinder compression testing for bore scoring. I should mention that the car shows no symptoms or problems.

The result was as follows:
cylinder 6 seal: 18/20
cylinder 5 seal: 20/20
cylinder 4 seal: 19/20
cylinder seal 3: 19/20
cylinder seal 2: 20/20
cylinder seal 1: 19/20
Cylinder 6, which as we know is the most critical on these cars for bore scoring, seemed a little low compared to the values of the other cylinders.

According to the porsche centre the values are ok, but at that porsche centre they didn't seem very aware of the bore scoring problem.

I wanted to ask you guys what you think.
Thank you very much

5% variation, and high scores across the whole engine looks good to me. But won't tell you about bore scoring.

[Andre_Sant]

thank you all for your answers.
Unfortunately when I took the car to the porsche center in my town they told me that they only have a low resolution camera and would see very little.

They were the ones who advised me to do the compression test.

Now also thanks to your information I have instead realized that the compression test says very little, even a completely rifled cylinder could easily get 20/20 that is the maximum score.

Conversely, I cannot get a ppi with professional probe done correctly.

Do you guys say the 18/20 on cylinder 6 is a red alert?

The machine has no oil leakage, no erratic oil consumption, no strange fumes, no metallic sounds.

I also checked the exhaust pipes, I put my finger in there and there was just a little thread of black dirt, which could be soot, but it was a really insignificant amount.

I know that soot in the exhaust pipe can be an alert, but I don't think an exhaust pipe can be 100% clean, or can it?

Thanks a lot

[BertBert]

I'd say it doesn't really matter. you've got no information about the state of the bores. So you are just taking a chance. View it in that light to make your decision.

[ATM]

We've seen cars with replacement engines with less than 30,000 miles. We dont know the compressions test results prior to this but the point is that even low mileage cars or engines can score up. So you need to stop thinking that bore scoring is wear related - it is not.

[Chubbyross]

Bear in mind that bore scoring can often be misdiagnosed by people who have very little experience in these matters. A camera may pick up some marks, which are instantly diagnosed as scoring. Some marking is natural and may well be be fine. I wouldn’t trust a Porsche center to do this and would much rather a very well trusted indy have a look. They’ll be more used to working on cars from this generation.

[MA121C]

OPC inspection of little value on this era of car, unfortunately. You'd need to take it to a good indy if you want to do your due diligence on the bores. And the rest of the car, to be frank.

[dgswk]

dgswk said:

I'm in the process of buying a 997.1 3.8S Cab at the moment. Lovely car, on the surface immaculate and low-ish miles. Knowing a borescored rebuild is a £10-15k bill, plus any other issues.... suspension, radiators, condensers, pipework, brakes etc., I have asked the dealer to take it to a local Porsche Indy, and I'm paying £300ish plus VAT for a 4hr PPI and full Borescope inspection.

It may come back clean and I'll happily pay the asking price, any immediate issues and we'll have a haggle depending on seriousness etc.

Wouldn't take it to a Porsche main dealer, I just get the feeling that at the £25-£35k 996/7 end of the market, Indy's have far more experience of them. Every service book I've looked at seems to have well respected Indy stamps for the last 5-7 years once the warranty had run out.

My day of reckoning is Monday!

Good luck!

Day of reckoning has arrived, its bore scored on Cyl 6 and Cyl 5. Best £300+vat I've spent and I've just delivered the bad news to the dealer.

GET A BORESCOPE DONE BY A PORSCHE INDY SPECIALIST

No soot, no ticking, no outward signs.

My hunt goes on....

Edited by dgswk on Tuesday 17th January 12:49

[Andre_Sant]

did you make the inspection from the bottom (from the pan), or did you make from the high (after you removed the plugs)?
I ask it because I read that if the problem is at an early stage, than you can see it better from the bottom

[Andre_Sant]

Chubbyross said:

Bear in mind that bore scoring can often be misdiagnosed by people who have very little experience in these matters. A camera may pick up some marks, which are instantly diagnosed as scoring. Some marking is natural and may well be be fine. I wouldn’t trust a Porsche center to do this and would much rather a very well trusted indy have a look. They’ll be more used to working on cars from this generation.

yes, it is the big problem

My official porsche center told me that they don't know how make the inspection from the bottom, and they told me that from the high the quality will be very very low

[Brisvegas 997C2S]

Where are you based Andre?

[Andre_Sant]

in italy (near florence, in tuscany)

[Brisvegas 997C2S]

Ahhh that probably limits most people here being able to point you in the right direction of a Porsche specialist., you never know though.

[dgswk]

Andre_Sant said:

did you make the inspection from the bottom (from the pan), or did you make from the high (after you removed the plugs)?
I ask it because I read that if the problem is at an early stage, than you can see it better from the bottom

They put it on a vehicle lift and took the plugs out, put a borescope in all 6 cylinders. I didn't do it, I wasn't there - a good respected specialist Porsche garage did it.

1-3 were fine, 4 had signs of wear but not excessive, 5 had more wear and 6 was excessive. It was very obvious from the photos, even to me - and according to the garage, not actually bad, but not going to get any better and will need a rebuild in the not too distant future (depending on mileage, useage etc etc)