F1 teams resistance to new teams
Discussion
Instead of lots of blah blah you can look at this in a simple fashion.
Even if you pay $200 million up front to join you will probably get at least $50 million back every year ,and you join the jam's at the back of the grid with a half assed effort.
No wonder the vast majority want a new entrant to buy an existing team.
Still here is all the blah blah.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/andretti-cadillac-p...
Even if you pay $200 million up front to join you will probably get at least $50 million back every year ,and you join the jam's at the back of the grid with a half assed effort.
No wonder the vast majority want a new entrant to buy an existing team.
Still here is all the blah blah.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/andretti-cadillac-p...
The only problem is that Cadillac just want to do an Alfa Romeo...... They're not going to build an engine, they want to badge name a Honda (They have Honda links!!)
Andretti and Cadillac are not really bringing anything to the game, and they have also shouted from the roof tops that they will be joining, putting everyones backs up.
The values of the teams have also rocketed over the last couple of years, they are profitable franchises now, they are worth far more than the $200m joining fee to the teams. NHL teams have been paying upwards of $500m in compensation to the other teams to join the series
I'm more interested in who the other, quieter interested parties are, one of them is supposedly Hyundai!!
Andretti and Cadillac are not really bringing anything to the game, and they have also shouted from the roof tops that they will be joining, putting everyones backs up.
The values of the teams have also rocketed over the last couple of years, they are profitable franchises now, they are worth far more than the $200m joining fee to the teams. NHL teams have been paying upwards of $500m in compensation to the other teams to join the series
I'm more interested in who the other, quieter interested parties are, one of them is supposedly Hyundai!!
I can't stand all this American franchise rubbish infecting our sports, I thought the teams were there to race and not just earn money? I expect them to be at the back of the grid initially so why are the other teams bothered if not for diluting profits?
Let them in whether they are a full new team or a rebrand using an existing engine. I think 12 teams is the sweet spot not 10.
Let them in whether they are a full new team or a rebrand using an existing engine. I think 12 teams is the sweet spot not 10.
As a fan I'd be happy to see them join - even in the unlikely event that it turns out to be another USF1/Cypher Group debacle there's still some entertainment there.
It's probably a safe bet that if they make the grid they would be spending at least a few years running in the lower orders which would provide some additional racing excitement, maybe a bit more variation in the Q1 knockout candidates as well. I'm sure that would suck for Andretti and his GM backers but that would be a them problem, not a me problem.
That said I can see why the existing teams (with their business/commercial hats on) are pushing back on the entry - or at the very least arguing for the most compensation they can get out of the deal. A new team dilutes the income for them from Liberty, increases competition for sponsors, reduces the potential value of their entry etc. They also potentially have yet another competitor looking to poach their staff, compete for new hires, and for the lower teams someone who might beat them to the scant points opportunities available to them. Basically turkeys don't vote for Christmas - and there's no real upside to allowing a new entrant for the existing teams at all, of course they're going to resist! Even if ultimately it's a negotiating tactic to get the best sweetener out of Liberty they can before agreeing.
It's probably a safe bet that if they make the grid they would be spending at least a few years running in the lower orders which would provide some additional racing excitement, maybe a bit more variation in the Q1 knockout candidates as well. I'm sure that would suck for Andretti and his GM backers but that would be a them problem, not a me problem.
That said I can see why the existing teams (with their business/commercial hats on) are pushing back on the entry - or at the very least arguing for the most compensation they can get out of the deal. A new team dilutes the income for them from Liberty, increases competition for sponsors, reduces the potential value of their entry etc. They also potentially have yet another competitor looking to poach their staff, compete for new hires, and for the lower teams someone who might beat them to the scant points opportunities available to them. Basically turkeys don't vote for Christmas - and there's no real upside to allowing a new entrant for the existing teams at all, of course they're going to resist! Even if ultimately it's a negotiating tactic to get the best sweetener out of Liberty they can before agreeing.
super7 said:
The only problem is that Cadillac just want to do an Alfa Romeo...... They're not going to build an engine, they want to badge name a Honda (They have Honda links!!)
Andretti and Cadillac are not really bringing anything to the game, and they have also shouted from the roof tops that they will be joining, putting everyones backs up.
The values of the teams have also rocketed over the last couple of years, they are profitable franchises now, they are worth far more than the $200m joining fee to the teams. NHL teams have been paying upwards of $500m in compensation to the other teams to join the series
I'm more interested in who the other, quieter interested parties are, one of them is supposedly Hyundai!!
It's a bit harsh to say Andretti don't bring anything.Andretti and Cadillac are not really bringing anything to the game, and they have also shouted from the roof tops that they will be joining, putting everyones backs up.
The values of the teams have also rocketed over the last couple of years, they are profitable franchises now, they are worth far more than the $200m joining fee to the teams. NHL teams have been paying upwards of $500m in compensation to the other teams to join the series
I'm more interested in who the other, quieter interested parties are, one of them is supposedly Hyundai!!
F1 is in trouble if a team who runs cars in multiple American open wheel/sports car championships and has won multiple Indycar championships isn't being welcomed.
They aren't going to be troubling Mercedes/Red Bull in the next 5 years, but should we just get rid of McLaren, Sauber, Williams, Haas etc in that case?
super7 said:
The only problem is that Cadillac just want to do an Alfa Romeo...... They're not going to build an engine, they want to badge name a Honda (They have Honda links!!)
Andretti and Cadillac are not really bringing anything to the game, and they have also shouted from the roof tops that they will be joining, putting everyones backs up.
The values of the teams have also rocketed over the last couple of years, they are profitable franchises now, they are worth far more than the $200m joining fee to the teams. NHL teams have been paying upwards of $500m in compensation to the other teams to join the series
I'm more interested in who the other, quieter interested parties are, one of them is supposedly Hyundai!!
Is Hyundai where Cyril joined?Andretti and Cadillac are not really bringing anything to the game, and they have also shouted from the roof tops that they will be joining, putting everyones backs up.
The values of the teams have also rocketed over the last couple of years, they are profitable franchises now, they are worth far more than the $200m joining fee to the teams. NHL teams have been paying upwards of $500m in compensation to the other teams to join the series
I'm more interested in who the other, quieter interested parties are, one of them is supposedly Hyundai!!
I am also a bit shocked at this because Cadillac have invested heavily in the new Le Mans regs, and this year are running cars in both IMSA and ACO series, a big deal, hopefully expanding and customer cars later on.
But I gather this is basically a badging effort, not their own engine?
Andretti has been running cars in all sorts of series for a long time now, Indycar, rallycross and others, they have had good links with manufacturers and seem to be able to get good sponors, how much of this is the Mario effect (he remains a God tom most American motorsport fans) I dont know.
Liberty must be involved too, it is the next stop for them, that have somehow made F1 big out there and next is more races and a team they can get behind, Haas is not really their team.
But I gather this is basically a badging effort, not their own engine?
Andretti has been running cars in all sorts of series for a long time now, Indycar, rallycross and others, they have had good links with manufacturers and seem to be able to get good sponors, how much of this is the Mario effect (he remains a God tom most American motorsport fans) I dont know.
Liberty must be involved too, it is the next stop for them, that have somehow made F1 big out there and next is more races and a team they can get behind, Haas is not really their team.
The BBC has an article outlining some of the current teams' reservations.
Some of the points made are quite compelling.
What exactly will Andretti/Cadillac bring to the show?
Formula 1: Andretti bid row reflects turbulent relationship among F1's powerbrokers - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64210632
Some of the points made are quite compelling.
What exactly will Andretti/Cadillac bring to the show?
Formula 1: Andretti bid row reflects turbulent relationship among F1's powerbrokers - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/64210632
Just who the hell do the Andrettis think they are? Enzo Ferrari? Bruce McLaren? Ken Tyrrell? Frank Williams? Jackie Stewart? Peter Sauber? Giancarlo Minardi? Ted Toleman? Eddie Jordan? Gene Haas?
The cheek of them. How dare they have such delusions of grandeur. What have they ever done in motorsport?
The cheek of them. How dare they have such delusions of grandeur. What have they ever done in motorsport?
Leithen said:
Just who the hell do the Andrettis think they are? Enzo Ferrari? Bruce McLaren? Ken Tyrrell? Frank Williams? Jackie Stewart? Peter Sauber? Giancarlo Minardi? Ted Toleman? Eddie Jordan? Gene Haas?
The cheek of them. How dare they have such delusions of grandeur. What have they ever done in motorsport?
Right?! The cheek of them. How dare they have such delusions of grandeur. What have they ever done in motorsport?
That BBC article is a pile of s
teWhy have that opinion on Andretti but Haas became a thing?
Let them in FFS!
What do most teams bring to the show really?
I don't get the resistance to Andretti (well I do....money).
Haas, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Toro Rosso etc don't really bring anything to F1 other than pay drivers or a retirement home for past it drivers.
The existing teams should really have a say, reserve the prize money for teams finishing in the top 10 and enforce the 107% rule.
I don't get the resistance to Andretti (well I do....money).
Haas, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Toro Rosso etc don't really bring anything to F1 other than pay drivers or a retirement home for past it drivers.
The existing teams should really have a say, reserve the prize money for teams finishing in the top 10 and enforce the 107% rule.
To flip the debate - what is in it for the existing teams to let another team in? It's just one more team to divide viewer/sponsor attention between really.
There have to be 10 teams and the new cost cap model effectively means that none of the existing teams can fail and leave the sport, albeit they might change hands. The required ten teams are in place and safe - and frankly not looking to share the pie..
Other than Renault of course, who see it as an opportunity to finally have an engine customer - thus ending a few awkward years advertising to the world that Renault Power is power that no one else actually seems to want..
There have to be 10 teams and the new cost cap model effectively means that none of the existing teams can fail and leave the sport, albeit they might change hands. The required ten teams are in place and safe - and frankly not looking to share the pie..
Other than Renault of course, who see it as an opportunity to finally have an engine customer - thus ending a few awkward years advertising to the world that Renault Power is power that no one else actually seems to want..
They should be thankful that someone is prepared to invest this much money to enter the circus, the existing teams cannot be obejctive and shouldnt be the ones deciding this. I think we need more cars on the grid, i dont care if its a winning team or midfield team. More seats available for drivers and more cars in the action, it can get a bit empty on the track if some failures and accidents take place. So at least two additional cars will help.
They've given the turkeys a vote on Christmas.
The turkeys are voting to not have Christmas.
Well colour me surprised!
At it's most basic level it's asking the teams to accept a dilution of their income. If you were at work, and someone told you that your team would hire a new member, but their salary would be coming out of yours, with a hope that the team becomes more productive and generates more income to allow the company to increase the salary pot ... would you vote for it?
It seems stupid to have allowed this position to happen ... but I can understand why the teams would be selfish.
The turkeys are voting to not have Christmas.
Well colour me surprised!
At it's most basic level it's asking the teams to accept a dilution of their income. If you were at work, and someone told you that your team would hire a new member, but their salary would be coming out of yours, with a hope that the team becomes more productive and generates more income to allow the company to increase the salary pot ... would you vote for it?
It seems stupid to have allowed this position to happen ... but I can understand why the teams would be selfish.
super7 said:
The only problem is that Cadillac just want to do an Alfa Romeo...... They're not going to build an engine, they want to badge name a Honda (They have Honda links!!)
I don't see the problem with the Alfa relationship.Maybe it's an easier pill to swallow for Alfa, as Sauber are using a Ferrari engine, and the high end Alfa road cars have a Ferrari derived engine.
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