Brake judder / new discs for E91 325i Touring

[meddler]

Hi everyone

I'm getting brake judder through the 45-55mph range and it seems to be getting worse. I'm assuming it's warped discs or similar because I had an alignment done last week and the judder is still there.

Keen to know if anyone's had a similar problem, and if it's caused by something other than faulty discs.

If it most likely is a disc issue, I'll get all four changed because they're the same as when I bought the car 18 months ago, and I can't see if/when they were last changed.

If I do go ahead and change them, what discs would people recommend? Given it's a 325i Touring (2011 M Sport, 55k miles) and a family wagon/workhorse, I don't need anything spectacular/race spec!

Cheers

[P. ONeill]

Are you sure the alignment/balancing have been done correctly?

[meddler]

As sure as I can be...

Balancing was done when I had all four tyres changed 12 months ago, and braking was smooth until a month ago.

Alignment was done last week by Wheelpower in Brockley, SE London, who have a good reputation.

[d_a_n1979]

meddler said:

Hi everyone

I'm getting brake judder through the 45-55mph range and it seems to be getting worse. I'm assuming it's warped discs or similar because I had an alignment done last week and the judder is still there.

Keen to know if anyone's had a similar problem, and if it's caused by something other than faulty discs.

If it most likely is a disc issue, I'll get all four changed because they're the same as when I bought the car 18 months ago, and I can't see if/when they were last changed.

If I do go ahead and change them, what discs would people recommend? Given it's a 325i Touring (2011 M Sport, 55k miles) and a family wagon/workhorse, I don't need anything spectacular/race spec!

Cheers

Normal road going car brake discs don't warp; it's either pad deposits, unevenly worn pads or the discs are shot from factory

Either way; you absolutely need to get the suspension checked as it could be a worn bush/ball joint causing the issues as well (very common)

Is the E9x chassis known for brake/suspension shimmies around that speed like the E46s and E39s are (basically failed bushes)? Worth researching...

As for brands; ATE, Jurid & Textar are OEM - Brembo discs are good; their pads not so much. Pagid are fine also

Try Autodoc for best prices; they don't delivery that quick, but they do offer good discounts etc

You'll be able to source Jurid/Textar and Pagid etc from your local motorfactors or eBay UK etc - Try C3BMW too
My preference is always ATE, more so their ceramic pads

[meddler]

d_a_n1979 said:

Normal road going car brake discs don't warp; it's either pad deposits, unevenly worn pads or the discs are shot from factory

Either way; you absolutely need to get the suspension checked as it could be a worn bush/ball joint causing the issues as well (very common)

Is the E9x chassis known for brake/suspension shimmies around that speed like the E46s and E39s are (basically failed bushes)? Worth researching...

As for brands; ATE, Jurid & Textar are OEM - Brembo discs are good; their pads not so much. Pagid are fine also

Try Autodoc for best prices; they don't delivery that quick, but they do offer good discounts etc

You'll be able to source Jurid/Textar and Pagid etc from your local motorfactors or eBay UK etc - Try C3BMW too
My preference is always ATE, more so their ceramic pads

Thanks for the advice.

The guy at Wheelpower said the same about bushes etc before he looked it over - but after looking it over, he said he didn't see anything wrong with them.

He suggested the discs might be warped from jet-washing while the brakes are still hot - don't know the truth in this, but I'll admit it's something I might have done unknowingly.

Are Eicher discs/pads any good or to be avoided?

[Court_S]

Can’t help with the cause, but I assume the vibration is there when actually braking.

Disc wise, I like the Zimmermann discs which a rent too expensive from Autodocn the coating seems to be of a good quality so the centres shouldn’t end up too rusty. The ATE ceramic pads are certainly worth the extra over normal pads because they make so much les mess.

[d_a_n1979]

meddler said:

d_a_n1979 said:

Normal road going car brake discs don't warp; it's either pad deposits, unevenly worn pads or the discs are shot from factory

Either way; you absolutely need to get the suspension checked as it could be a worn bush/ball joint causing the issues as well (very common)

Is the E9x chassis known for brake/suspension shimmies around that speed like the E46s and E39s are (basically failed bushes)? Worth researching...

As for brands; ATE, Jurid & Textar are OEM - Brembo discs are good; their pads not so much. Pagid are fine also

Try Autodoc for best prices; they don't delivery that quick, but they do offer good discounts etc

You'll be able to source Jurid/Textar and Pagid etc from your local motorfactors or eBay UK etc - Try C3BMW too
My preference is always ATE, more so their ceramic pads

Thanks for the advice.

The guy at Wheelpower said the same about bushes etc before he looked it over - but after looking it over, he said he didn't see anything wrong with them.

He suggested the discs might be warped from jet-washing while the brakes are still hot - don't know the truth in this, but I'll admit it's something I might have done unknowingly.

Are Eicher discs/pads any good or to be avoided?

I wouldn't touch Eicher personally; but others may...

FYI this was my previous F01 7'er; same principle though. Kept getting a shimmy at c50mph; brakes were brand new, passed MOT with flying colours, but it appeared soon after...

Until I took the suspension arm out; the failed ball joint couldn't be seen:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

2nd post down!

[MikeM6]

Have you had a wheel refurb done recently?

[Court_S]

meddler said:

Thanks for the advice.

The guy at Wheelpower said the same about bushes etc before he looked it over - but after looking it over, he said he didn't see anything wrong with them.

He suggested the discs might be warped from jet-washing while the brakes are still hot - don't know the truth in this, but I'll admit it's something I might have done unknowingly.

Are Eicher discs/pads any good or to be avoided?

Eicher discs and pads will work, but there’s a reason they’re cheap (I found out the hard way having fitted some to my other half’s 125i). The bite isn’t as good as better pads and the coating on the central bell is poor…..really poor. I fitted them in March last year and by the tie the summer was over they were pretty rusty. My this summer they looked ancient.

[meddler]

Court_S said:

Can’t help with the cause, but I assume the vibration is there when actually braking.

Disc wise, I like the Zimmermann discs which a rent too expensive from Autodocn the coating seems to be of a good quality so the centres shouldn’t end up too rusty. The ATE ceramic pads are certainly worth the extra over normal pads because they make so much les mess.

Yes - if I take my foot off the brake pedal in that 45-55mph judder zone, it stops juddering.

I've had a few mates (with much nicer cars than mine!) recommend ceramic pads for that same reason Sam so I'll give them a think!

[meddler]

d_a_n1979 said:

I wouldn't touch Eicher personally; but others may...

FYI this was my previous F01 7'er; same principle though. Kept getting a shimmy at c50mph; brakes were brand new, passed MOT with flying colours, but it appeared soon after...

Until I took the suspension arm out; the failed ball joint couldn't be seen:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

2nd post down!

Hmm, interesting. I might get my local indy to have a proper look before I start shelling out on new hardware! Thanks

[meddler]

MikeM6 said:

Have you had a wheel refurb done recently?

Interesting you say this. Not a proper professional refurb, but I took them all off myself a few months ago to scrub them up. Obviously replaced them like for like and torqued the nuts properly.

Why do you ask? I sense there's a reason...

[meddler]

Court_S said:

Eicher discs and pads will work, but there’s a reason they’re cheap (I found out the hard way having fitted some to my other half’s 125i). The bite isn’t as good as better pads and the coating on the central bell is poor…..really poor. I fitted them in March last year and by the tie the summer was over they were pretty rusty. My this summer they looked ancient.

Gotcha. Will avoid then. Because as much as it's not a supercar, it does have my family in it most of the time. (And when they're not in it, I do try to give it as much stick as it lets me...

[d_a_n1979]

meddler said:

MikeM6 said:

Have you had a wheel refurb done recently?

Interesting you say this. Not a proper professional refurb, but I took them all off myself a few months ago to scrub them up. Obviously replaced them like for like and torqued the nuts properly.

Why do you ask? I sense there's a reason...

Are you sure that the mating faces are absolutely clean & paint free / corrosion free?

Anything in between them can have them wobble; but it'll be there more or less constantly and not just when braking

[meddler]

d_a_n1979 said:

Are you sure that the mating faces are absolutely clean & paint free / corrosion free?

Anything in between them can have them wobble; but it'll be there more or less constantly and not just when braking

Yes, that was part of the clean-up effort. There's no wobbling outside of that 45-55mph judder zone

[d_a_n1979]

meddler said:

d_a_n1979 said:

Are you sure that the mating faces are absolutely clean & paint free / corrosion free?

Anything in between them can have them wobble; but it'll be there more or less constantly and not just when braking

Yes, that was part of the clean-up effort. There's no wobbling outside of that 45-55mph judder zone

That, to me, says its suspension parts...

This is where it can get interesting; but it's time to get it up on the ramps and see what's going on underneath...

The inner CV joints & track rod ends are missed a lot too; BMW are known for track rod ends that love to seize and tracking/alignment can't be sorted until their replaced.

So if no proof; get them both swapped out, both sides, as matter of course. They're not expensive. Stick with Lemforder, Meyle, TRW or Febi Bilstein

[MikeM6]

meddler said:

Interesting you say this. Not a proper professional refurb, but I took them all off myself a few months ago to scrub them up. Obviously replaced them like for like and torqued the nuts properly.

Why do you ask? I sense there's a reason...

I had to replace my discs as the previous owner had them cheaply refurbished. The excess paint on the mating surface caused excessive heat and did on fact cause a warped disc. I would not have believed it, but after this being diagnosed I did some research and it is a thing! The discs lasted about 1k miles before they needed replacing, but I fortunately got a new set free under parts warranty.

[helix402]

If want decent brakes go for gen BMW or ATE. Ceramic pads are good for low brake dust but a bit harder on the discs.

[SimonK2486]

I had this issue on my old E46 and it drove me to nearly selling the car over it. Only thing that worked for me was having the discs skimmed on the car. Not many places seem to do it any more, but if you can find someone, I'd thoroughly recommend it. The problem never came back after that. Check the obvious other areas first like bushes etc though.

[meddler]

I'm leaning towards it being a disc issue, most likely the fronts, because from what I can see from the service history, the fronts are pretty old. Plus it just feels from the brake response like it's the front discs.

Anyway, it's going to my local indy tomorrow morning and they're giving it a thorough look over - bushes, track rod ends, etc. I'll report back!

Thanks all for the tips on discs/pads, which (if indeed it's a disc issue) I'll most likely source myself before getting the garage to do the work (I simply don't have the time to do it myself right now, plus doing anything on-street in London is a massive PITA, even putting aside the near-certainty of getting mowed down by an Uber Eats/Deliveroo moped)