2026 regs may incorporate measures to handicap cars

2026 regs may incorporate measures to handicap cars

Author
Discussion

Rotary Potato

Original Poster:

346 posts

102 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
quotequote all
https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-active-aerodynami...

For me this is completely against the ethos of F1.

I'm all for these sort of measures in series that have a stated aim of promoting close racing - things like BOP in GT racing and success ballast/hybrid malarkey in BTCC. The goal of these series is to keep the cars close, and these artificial measures help to achieve that.

However, F1 has historically been about designing the 'best' car within the regulations and then being faster than everyone else. I don't see how artificially hobbling the lead car fits in to that ethos. I could just about get my head around DRS (necessary evil) and the sliding scale of CFD/wind tunnel time (punishes success, but can be overcome with efficiency), but this to me feels like a step too far.

Or is this just Ross Brawn being mischievous on his way out the door and kicking the wasps nest for the lolz?

Thoughts?

Sixpackpert

4,663 posts

220 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
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If it's good for the 'show'...

andygo

6,913 posts

261 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
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Theres no need to build a world beating car, just build a bit of a dog on the cheap and get quicker cars handicapped to your level.

I'm on the verge of binning Sky, if they are going to convert it to a wheeled version of WWF, that'll beme out. Not that Liberty care anyway.

BrettMRC

4,376 posts

166 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
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Utter ***** - and not plausible to pull it off as described as all cars generate differing levels of downforce in different ways.

mat205125

17,790 posts

219 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
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I think that a point that is being missed in the whole of the "raceability" quest, which I applaud Brawn and all for, is that its about time that it could be a great idea to put racing over lap time.

Whilst the initiatives are already doing this to an extent, it's would be tough for F1 to give up it's USP of being the fastest road circuit racing series in the world in the interests of racing.

I'm sure there have been points in many recent seasons when we've all thought about how great it would be to see all the current F1 line up racing in identical F3 cars, or even better putting them into a grid of late 90s F3000 cars. The racing would be epic, but F1 would no longer be the pinnacle in terms of pace, technology and so forth.

Just bring grip levels down by 50%, and cap BHP to 500.

SturdyHSV

10,208 posts

173 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
Just bring grip levels down by 50%, and cap BHP to 500.
Halve the grip and halve the power? Nonsense, halve the grip and leave the power as is, much more exciting! hehe

entropy

5,565 posts

209 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
quotequote all
Best driver in the best car romping off into the distance and gaps of significance between drivers for the remaining podium positions makes a bad race, regardless of how good the racing down the rest of the field is.

Put another way who genuinely enjoyed this year's Mexican GP or would argue F1 races were more entertaining post summer break than pre and should F1 tolerate those kinds of races/dominance?

rallycross

13,212 posts

243 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
quotequote all
Make DRS enabled 3 seconds behind for cars in the bottom 6 cars.
Make DRS 2 seconds for cars in P15 to P6.
Leave DRS 1 seconds for top 5.


Sheetmaself

5,776 posts

204 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
quotequote all
mat205125 said:
I think that a point that is being missed in the whole of the "raceability" quest, which I applaud Brawn and all for, is that its about time that it could be a great idea to put racing over lap time.

Whilst the initiatives are already doing this to an extent, it's would be tough for F1 to give up it's USP of being the fastest road circuit racing series in the world in the interests of racing.

I'm sure there have been points in many recent seasons when we've all thought about how great it would be to see all the current F1 line up racing in identical F3 cars, or even better putting them into a grid of late 90s F3000 cars. The racing would be epic, but F1 would no longer be the pinnacle in terms of pace, technology and so forth.

Just bring grip levels down by 50%, and cap BHP to 500.
Wasn’t that many years ago (i think in the grooved tyre era) when the gp2 cars were quicker than the F1 cars!

thegreenhell

16,828 posts

225 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
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So the teams spend $140m each trying to build the fastest car and then race control just hits a switch and hobbles them if they do their job too well. It would be far cheaper just to make it a spec series if they want guaranteed close racing. They could save themselves over a billion dollars a year, and most viewers wouldn't care.

thegreenhell

16,828 posts

225 months

Friday 2nd December 2022
quotequote all
Sheetmaself said:
Wasn’t that many years ago (i think in the grooved tyre era) when the gp2 cars were quicker than the F1 cars!
I don't think that ever happened.

Sheetmaself

5,776 posts

204 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
Just checked and i stand corrected.

It got close though!

Spain
- HRT (best): 87.809s
- Virgin (best): 87.315
- GP2 pole position: 90.473s

sandman77

2,559 posts

144 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
Sheetmaself said:
Just checked and i stand corrected.

It got close though!

Spain
- HRT (best): 87.809s
- Virgin (best): 87.315
- GP2 pole position: 90.473s
What was the F1 pole time?

MCBrowncoat

985 posts

152 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
Sheetmaself said:
Just checked and i stand corrected.

It got close though!

Spain
- HRT (best): 87.809s
- Virgin (best): 87.315
- GP2 pole position: 90.473s
But Webbers pole was almost ten seconds quicker than GP2 at 1:20.981. So not close at all

Also worth pointing out that in Q1 Webbers best time was a 1:23.619, so he went more than 2.6 seconds quicker from Q1 to Q3. So those fastest Virgin and HRT times compared to the GP2 Pole are even more irrelevant than that, as they too would have likely gone quicker if they had been given the chance for more runs

...Sorry to be a pedant, but it just annoys me when people cherry pick stats

Edited by MCBrowncoat on Saturday 3rd December 09:37


Edited by MCBrowncoat on Saturday 3rd December 09:38

vaud

51,818 posts

161 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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To be fair to the FIA they are just saying they are going evaluate it and model it carefully. Not "we are doing this".

Which is more than they used to do. This years regs seem to have worked, at least the drivers say it is easier to follow closely. As the cars close up in terms of design the racing should get even better.

Sheetmaself

5,776 posts

204 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
MCBrowncoat said:
Sheetmaself said:
Just checked and i stand corrected.

It got close though!

Spain
- HRT (best): 87.809s
- Virgin (best): 87.315
- GP2 pole position: 90.473s
But Webbers pole was almost ten seconds quicker than GP2 at 1:20.981. So not close at all

Also worth pointing out that in Q1 Webbers best time was a 1:23.619, so he went more than 2.6 seconds quicker from Q1 to Q3. So those fastest Virgin and HRT times compared to the GP2 Pole are even more irrelevant than that, as they too would have likely gone quicker if they had been given the chance for more runs

...Sorry to be a pedant, but it just annoys me when people cherry pick stats

Edited by MCBrowncoat on Saturday 3rd December 09:37


Edited by MCBrowncoat on Saturday 3rd December 09:38
Not really cherry picking stats though as two cars quoted where perfectly legal F1 cars on the F1 grid and and part of the F1 Championship. Surely cherry picking would be if this had been a one off and other than this race there was a huge disparity between the classes but I checked this and that doesn’t appear to be the case.

MustangGT

12,051 posts

286 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
Sheetmaself said:
Not really cherry picking stats though as two cars quoted where perfectly legal F1 cars on the F1 grid and and part of the F1 Championship. Surely cherry picking would be if this had been a one off and other than this race there was a huge disparity between the classes but I checked this and that doesn’t appear to be the case.
It is cherry-picking because you picked pole time for GP2, but not pole time for F1. If you had picked the slowest qualifying GP2 car to compare with the HRT F1 that would be a fair comparison.

Fundoreen

4,180 posts

89 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
They should. F1 seems to be like a game of cards. But you get stuck with your hand once you show it for a whole season or more rather than A few minutes till the next cards are delt.



//j17

4,587 posts

229 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
Rotary Potato said:
However, F1 has historically been about designing the 'best' car within the regulations and then being faster than everyone else
...only for the FIA to change the rules, sometimes mid-season because they didn't like what someone had done/they were too much quicker than the rest of the grid (e.g. Brabham BT46B).

mat205125

17,790 posts

219 months

Monday 12th December 2022
quotequote all
//j17 said:
Rotary Potato said:
However, F1 has historically been about designing the 'best' car within the regulations and then being faster than everyone else
...only for the FIA to change the rules, sometimes mid-season because they didn't like what someone had done/they were too much quicker than the rest of the grid (e.g. Brabham BT46B).
However more recently, the FIA have been more pragmatic, and worked with the teams to confirm that designs are inside of the regs, however then change the rules for the next season.

Merc DAS

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