E60 M5 saloon / E63 M6 coupe vs W204 C63 AMG saloon/coupe
Discussion
I've watched a few comparison vids of these on YouTube and there doesn't seem to be much in it between the two at all, which surprised me.
Has anyone owned or extensively driven both? Which is faster? And which is more dynamic?
It looks like the C63s initially get ahead with the superior torque and less weight, but then the V10s start to reel them in once above 80mph or so(?)
All very very impressive cars even 15 years on
Has anyone owned or extensively driven both? Which is faster? And which is more dynamic?
It looks like the C63s initially get ahead with the superior torque and less weight, but then the V10s start to reel them in once above 80mph or so(?)
All very very impressive cars even 15 years on
TobyTR said:
I've watched a few comparison vids of these on YouTube and there doesn't seem to be much in it between the two at all, which surprised me.
Has anyone owned or extensively driven both? Which is faster? And which is more dynamic?
It looks like the C63s initially get ahead with the superior torque and less weight, but then the V10s start to reel them in once above 80mph or so(?)
All very very impressive cars even 15 years on
Not sure about the precise figures, both fairly similar I guess, but the V10 is just glorious as you wind it up to close on 8k rpm. One of the world's great N/A engines the like of which will not be seen again. No contest imhoHas anyone owned or extensively driven both? Which is faster? And which is more dynamic?
It looks like the C63s initially get ahead with the superior torque and less weight, but then the V10s start to reel them in once above 80mph or so(?)
All very very impressive cars even 15 years on
jm doc said:
The Mercs are cheaper and more reliable then, are they?
They're both expensive for maintenance...but you tend to hear of fewer major failures of the Merc's V8 and 7g box than you do the BMW's V10 and SMG box.I loved the idea of a V10 M5 Estate to replace my e34 M5s, but I'm glad I skipped that generation and kept the e34 for a bit longer (well, until I broke it at 170k miles).
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 27th October 13:44
mmm-five said:
jm doc said:
The Mercs are cheaper and more reliable then, are they?
They're both expensive for maintenance...but you tend to hear of fewer major failures of the Merc's V8 and 7g box than you do the BMW's V10 and SMG box.As an owner of the V10 I am biased, but I think both should be seen as expensive propositions. The S85 and SMG3 combination get some bad press, but are actually robust if they are cared for and mine took a beating on track without a whiff of trouble. I know plenty that are well over 100k and going strong and one north of 200k. They just need good care. My brother in law had a 2010 C63 in the USA that was nothing but trouble, so either could be a pup or golden.
A major cost is fuel. Neither will be frugal and will drink like a fish. I'm ok with that, but at £100 for 130miles it can be eye-opening if not used it it.
I'd also say consumables are very pricey. Tyres, brakes and oil will be more expensive than a 535i or a C350. Having said that, lots of sensors, bushings and other bits on old cars can add up quickly, which will be across the range.
As for which is faster, I'm not sure it matters too much. A modern hot hatch will give either a hard time off the line or on tight road, but will come nowhere near them for sheer pleasure, sound and high speed performance (70+ mph acceleration). I don't think I care that a new M3 is faster than my M6, even if money was not a factor, I'd still chose the V10.
The best answer, as we all know, is go and have a play in both and figure out which you like more.
A major cost is fuel. Neither will be frugal and will drink like a fish. I'm ok with that, but at £100 for 130miles it can be eye-opening if not used it it.
I'd also say consumables are very pricey. Tyres, brakes and oil will be more expensive than a 535i or a C350. Having said that, lots of sensors, bushings and other bits on old cars can add up quickly, which will be across the range.
As for which is faster, I'm not sure it matters too much. A modern hot hatch will give either a hard time off the line or on tight road, but will come nowhere near them for sheer pleasure, sound and high speed performance (70+ mph acceleration). I don't think I care that a new M3 is faster than my M6, even if money was not a factor, I'd still chose the V10.
The best answer, as we all know, is go and have a play in both and figure out which you like more.
Edited by MikeM6 on Thursday 27th October 17:20
Pretty sure the AMG can have headbolt issues so make sure if you're taking the plunge they've been sorted. I had an E63 and now have an F10 M5, the engine noise of the AMG was something special and the W204 might be a level up from the bi-turbo engine I had. There's a great video about the M5 on youtube under I think Drivetribe? plenty of good info out there.
Boozy said:
Pretty sure the AMG can have headbolt issues so make sure if you're taking the plunge they've been sorted. I had an E63 and now have an F10 M5, the engine noise of the AMG was something special and the W204 might be a level up from the bi-turbo engine I had. There's a great video about the M5 on youtube under I think Drivetribe? plenty of good info out there.
This is a BMW M forum. An E63 on here usually is taken to mean the E63 M6!ps The difference in noise between two V8's is often just down to the exhaust system/turbo's The difference between a V8 and a V10 is on a whole different level, and is down to the engine, not the components.
If you've never driven a V10, you don't really know what you're missing.
Edited by jm doc on Thursday 27th October 22:24
Had a V10 M6 for a few years. Now in an E63 (5.5TT)
Glorious engine, buy it for that alone. I think they like to be used, mine was adaily driver and problem free. Do the bearings for £2.5k and biggest concern is taken care of.
Not that fast off the line, but once you get to 60ish it's very very fast.
Glorious engine, buy it for that alone. I think they like to be used, mine was adaily driver and problem free. Do the bearings for £2.5k and biggest concern is taken care of.
Not that fast off the line, but once you get to 60ish it's very very fast.
Meant to add
I loved the gearbox. Fast, brutal shifts at 8000rpm are addictive. Very involving, and can be driven smoothly if you think about them like driving a manual.
In comparison the gearbox my E63 is just a slushbox. No point changing gears manually, you could write a novel while waiting for it to go from 1st to 2nd. Or 2nd to 3rd. etc
I loved the gearbox. Fast, brutal shifts at 8000rpm are addictive. Very involving, and can be driven smoothly if you think about them like driving a manual.
In comparison the gearbox my E63 is just a slushbox. No point changing gears manually, you could write a novel while waiting for it to go from 1st to 2nd. Or 2nd to 3rd. etc
MarcelM6 said:
Meant to add
I loved the gearbox. Fast, brutal shifts at 8000rpm are addictive. Very involving, and can be driven smoothly if you think about them like driving a manual.
In comparison the gearbox my E63 is just a slushbox. No point changing gears manually, you could write a novel while waiting for it to go from 1st to 2nd. Or 2nd to 3rd. etc
I thought the MCT in the e63 was meant to be pretty quick at changes?I loved the gearbox. Fast, brutal shifts at 8000rpm are addictive. Very involving, and can be driven smoothly if you think about them like driving a manual.
In comparison the gearbox my E63 is just a slushbox. No point changing gears manually, you could write a novel while waiting for it to go from 1st to 2nd. Or 2nd to 3rd. etc
How do you find the comparison between your old M6 and your current E63?
The MCT gearbox is fine in Sport+, but utterly useless in manual mode. Combination of the box being slow to respond to manual shift, redline being at just over 6k and the motor being quite free revving. eg when accelerating hard in 2nd, need to pull upshift paddle at least a full second before engine gets to redline, which is at about 3.5k rpm
In terms of comparison between the 2. Short answer: one felt like a special GT car the other like a hotrod.
Longer answer:
Engines are very different characters, M6 relies on revs and power, the E63AMG is about torque. I've had mine mildly tuned to approx 950NM and 650bhp. Pre tune the AMG felt similar to the M6, faster to 60 but pretty even after that. With the tune the M6 wouldn't stand a chance. The AMG is ludicrously fast.
If I had had the option I would have kept the M6, but with 3 (now 2) kids at home and 2 dogs it was an extremely impractical choice. I have nowhere to park more than one car, otherwise I would have kept the M6 and bought 'bangers' to run the family round in. I didn't go straight from one to the other, but for a few months pre the E63AMG I did consider buying another M6 and finding somwhere to store it. I think they are future classics and values are already going up. There will never be an engine quite like it again.
Only 2 cars in the 30 or so I've had that I regret selling. The M6 is one of them. The E63AMG, while ridiculously fast, leaves me stone cold in comparison.
In terms of comparison between the 2. Short answer: one felt like a special GT car the other like a hotrod.
Longer answer:
Engines are very different characters, M6 relies on revs and power, the E63AMG is about torque. I've had mine mildly tuned to approx 950NM and 650bhp. Pre tune the AMG felt similar to the M6, faster to 60 but pretty even after that. With the tune the M6 wouldn't stand a chance. The AMG is ludicrously fast.
If I had had the option I would have kept the M6, but with 3 (now 2) kids at home and 2 dogs it was an extremely impractical choice. I have nowhere to park more than one car, otherwise I would have kept the M6 and bought 'bangers' to run the family round in. I didn't go straight from one to the other, but for a few months pre the E63AMG I did consider buying another M6 and finding somwhere to store it. I think they are future classics and values are already going up. There will never be an engine quite like it again.
Only 2 cars in the 30 or so I've had that I regret selling. The M6 is one of them. The E63AMG, while ridiculously fast, leaves me stone cold in comparison.
I had an E61 M5 for 20k odd miles until it got stolen. Loved every single mile in it despite the stupidly small range and the potential for big bills. Bought mine as a AUC and run it with warranty afterwards. Super reliable - only fault was an oxygen sensor.
Also like the MB V8, but the V10 is in a different league. Having had a proper look inside a couple, most of the marketing at the time about F1 inspired tech being dropped in is actually close to reality.
The M5/M6 are old platforms now with known problems BUT also known solutions for them. So running one, despite the high parts prices is also easier. Go in with eyes wide open and you won’t be disappointed. My pick would be a late, post facelift M5 in one of the rarer colours - Silverstone, Monaco, Frozen edition. Last but not least - seek out the full leather interior - it does make a huge difference to the cabin ambience- it was a £5k option. My car had it and it was mega…
Also like the MB V8, but the V10 is in a different league. Having had a proper look inside a couple, most of the marketing at the time about F1 inspired tech being dropped in is actually close to reality.
The M5/M6 are old platforms now with known problems BUT also known solutions for them. So running one, despite the high parts prices is also easier. Go in with eyes wide open and you won’t be disappointed. My pick would be a late, post facelift M5 in one of the rarer colours - Silverstone, Monaco, Frozen edition. Last but not least - seek out the full leather interior - it does make a huge difference to the cabin ambience- it was a £5k option. My car had it and it was mega…
The fuel tank size is a joke 210-230 mile range. I was doing a 100mile round trip communte 5 days a week so had to fill up every 2nd day. Was on first name basis with all the staff at the local fuel station.
Now do 100 miles a week - maybe I should get rid of the AMG and look for a good M5 (off to browse Autotrader)
Now do 100 miles a week - maybe I should get rid of the AMG and look for a good M5 (off to browse Autotrader)
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