Is F1 now "officially" make it up as you go along?

[iandc]

I have been watching F1 since the late 50s through all the great times and the not so great, but am seriously considering giving up.
Just when you think the fiasco of the last race of last season can't get any worse, this season has seen so many inconsistencies in penalties and decisions by the stewards and the FIA that it is a farce. No longer a sport based on merit but on a lottery. The FIA score yet another own goal with the fiasco which is the cost cap irregularities.. Delay after delay regarding which teams have exceeded the cap followed by "negotiation" regarding the penalty. Then in the US GP they randomly penalise Alonso whilst ignoring similar situations with the RB car. It seems the "entertainment" factor has replaced any serious consideration of providing a sporting spectacle.

[Muzzer79]

The cost cap situation is a little concerning, depending on the outcome, but I await to see said outcome.

As regards in-race stewarding, I don't see an issue if you look at it objectively.

[Presuming Ed]

TBF and as much as I think the Alonso penalty was harsh you can't compare this with Perez. The fact the car had been into the pits and given a once over they should have ripped off the mirror and any other lose trim from the car. Obviously they don't want another Massa situation.

RB has a lose piece of trim but it fell off before they race director noticed and could tell them to pit. Of course you could just think its another FIA boost to RB as thats what the narrative now seems to be.

[Daston]

Theres been a few situations that have raised my eye brows this year and I was willing to give the a chance after last years fk up.


Perez broke the rules twice, resulting in a slapped wrist and 5 seconds added after the race. Not investigated until race end with plently of laps left to cover.

Gasly does it once and gets an instant 5 second penalty with immediate effect.

Wet weather racing - seems F1 just don't do it any more it's always wait until it's dry enough for inters and just use the wets for a coffee table in the office

Design stupid rules to convert points scored depending on the % of the race run but only if it does finish under a flag (what?) Then leave every guessing how many points everyone wins and just dish out the full points anyway

Car Damage: HAAS seems to get a black and orange flag within half a lap, other more damaged cars don't get flagged at all

And thats just the last few races, I'm sure theres many more.

[What The Deuces]

If you've been watching since the fifties you'll know its always been the same. Pre FIA days of FISA/FOCA were like the wild west.

At least the drivers cant jump out of the car into their teammates car these days and carry on etc etc.


I suppose the early 80's were the good old days when people would finish 5 laps down on the winner and you had a 40-60% chance of finishing the race because cars were so unreliable.

[StevieBee]

iandc said:

No longer a sport based on merit but on a lottery.

It's not though. Unless you have Hass and Williams scoring wins all the time, the best still prosper.

The sport has become incredibly complex to police and the FIA appear to have adopted a police by committee and agreement approach to enforcement. It's not perfect by any stretch but despite the inconsistencies and what not, I'd say that it's better than it's been for a long time.

[maz8062]

StevieBee said:

iandc said:

No longer a sport based on merit but on a lottery.

It's not though. Unless you have Hass and Williams scoring wins all the time, the best still prosper.

The sport has become incredibly complex to police and the FIA appear to have adopted a police by committee and agreement approach to enforcement. It's not perfect by any stretch but despite the inconsistencies and what not, I'd say that it's better than it's been for a long time.

It’s nowhere near what it used to be - perhaps the drama is better but it’s lost it’s integrity. How many of you were watching the winners podium or press conference and were wondering what Lewis and Charles were thinking about Max’s win, about the legality of his car and whether it was a fair fight competing against him? How many were thinking that Max chasing down Lewis was part skill and part suspicious car?

It’s difficult to watch sport in the moment when there is a question mark over the team that are running away with the spoils and the longer they leave it the worse it’ll get.

[Sandpit Steve]

Daston said:

Theres been a few situations that have raised my eye brows this year and I was willing to give the a chance after last years fk up.


Perez broke the rules twice, resulting in a slapped wrist and 5 seconds added after the race. Not investigated until race end with plently of laps left to cover.

Gasly does it once and gets an instant 5 second penalty with immediate effect.

Wet weather racing - seems F1 just don't do it any more it's always wait until it's dry enough for inters and just use the wets for a coffee table in the office

Design stupid rules to convert points scored depending on the % of the race run but only if it does finish under a flag (what?) Then leave every guessing how many points everyone wins and just dish out the full points anyway

Car Damage: HAAS seems to get a black and orange flag within half a lap, other more damaged cars don't get flagged at all

And thats just the last few races, I'm sure theres many more.

Good set of observations there. In my mind it’s the inconsistency that’s the biggest problem, with so many similar incidents resulting in different outcomes.

As suggested on another thread, perhaps FOM should put up a few million to the FIA, to fund a permanent team of officials and stewards to travel to all the races, a smaller group than currently used. They couldn’t even find a permanent race director over the winter, the job being shared by two individuals this year.

Of course, in the background of all this, is the row about the budget, with the impression given that one team is basically daring the FIA to impose a significant punishment, and the authority being unwilling to challenge them.

[simon_harris]

Inconsistent penalties have ever been a thing in F1 (ferrari barge boards anyone?) That it is not new does not make it any more appealing and recently it does seem to be much more blatant.

for the first time in many year I didn't watch the race this weekend, what was the point?

[StevieBee]

maz8062 said:

StevieBee said:

iandc said:

No longer a sport based on merit but on a lottery.

It's not though. Unless you have Hass and Williams scoring wins all the time, the best still prosper.

The sport has become incredibly complex to police and the FIA appear to have adopted a police by committee and agreement approach to enforcement. It's not perfect by any stretch but despite the inconsistencies and what not, I'd say that it's better than it's been for a long time.

It’s nowhere near what it used to be - perhaps the drama is better but it’s lost it’s integrity. How many of you were watching the winners podium or press conference and were wondering what Lewis and Charles were thinking about Max’s win, about the legality of his car and whether it was a fair fight competing against him? How many were thinking that Max chasing down Lewis was part skill and part suspicious car?

It’s difficult to watch sport in the moment when there is a question mark over the team that are running away with the spoils and the longer they leave it the worse it’ll get.

I could point to any number of examples over the past 40 years, possibly even before then, where the same could be said.

It's a sport that rewards innovation in spades which inevitably leads teams to push the boundaries of legality. Sometimes they get away with it. Sometimes they don't and sometimes, it is actually legal - despite the protests that call otherwise. Has long been the case.

[realjv]

The FIA desperately needs to move into the 21st century with its public communications.
F1 has never been more widely covered and reported on but unfortunately 99% of those doing the reporting are not at the races and are just hacks regurgitating quotes from TV or each other. If it is to stand a chance the FIA must clearly explain decisions, what is going on and why in an open and public way. A chat around the back of the motorhomes in the paddock with one of the few proper journalists who attend and cover the sport isn't good enough anymore.

[iandc]

realjv said:

The FIA desperately needs to move into the 21st century with its public communications.
F1 has never been more widely covered and reported on but unfortunately 99% of those doing the reporting are not at the races and are just hacks regurgitating quotes from TV or each other. If it is to stand a chance the FIA must clearly explain decisions, what is going on and why in an open and public way. A chat around the back of the motorhomes in the paddock with one of the few proper journalists who attend and cover the sport isn't good enough anymore.

Consistency, clarity and openness would be a good starting point. Given the current debacle regarding cost cap, I would add speed of decision making.

[maz8062]

StevieBee said:

maz8062 said:

StevieBee said:

iandc said:

No longer a sport based on merit but on a lottery.

It's not though. Unless you have Hass and Williams scoring wins all the time, the best still prosper.

The sport has become incredibly complex to police and the FIA appear to have adopted a police by committee and agreement approach to enforcement. It's not perfect by any stretch but despite the inconsistencies and what not, I'd say that it's better than it's been for a long time.

It’s nowhere near what it used to be - perhaps the drama is better but it’s lost it’s integrity. How many of you were watching the winners podium or press conference and were wondering what Lewis and Charles were thinking about Max’s win, about the legality of his car and whether it was a fair fight competing against him? How many were thinking that Max chasing down Lewis was part skill and part suspicious car?

It’s difficult to watch sport in the moment when there is a question mark over the team that are running away with the spoils and the longer they leave it the worse it’ll get.

I could point to any number of examples over the past 40 years, possibly even before then, where the same could be said.

It's a sport that rewards innovation in spades which inevitably leads teams to push the boundaries of legality. Sometimes they get away with it. Sometimes they don't and sometimes, it is actually legal - despite the protests that call otherwise. Has long been the case.

I disagree, with respect. In the olden days there was innovation trickery and pushing the boundaries, but it was more open and almost always uncovered and any loophole closed. The period of flexi wings and blown diffusers is when all this skulduggery started and we never really got to the bottom of it.

In my mind, RBR have been the worst for this sport. They haven’t come to the sport with the history of the likes of Merc, Ferrari, Williams, Renault, McLaren and others, so they take risks and a win at all costs approach to the sport . They’re constantly pushing the boundaries, trying to gain an advantage over the others and at all costs.

At some point they’ll leave because they’re not in it for the sport, they’re in it for the advertising, the glamour, so controversy doesn’t really affect their day job. They’re not a car company, a Haas, Andretti, Reynard, they’re red bull the energy drink, like Monster, Rich energy and others.

[What The Deuces]

maz8062 said:

StevieBee said:

maz8062 said:

StevieBee said:

iandc said:

No longer a sport based on merit but on a lottery.

It's not though. Unless you have Hass and Williams scoring wins all the time, the best still prosper.

The sport has become incredibly complex to police and the FIA appear to have adopted a police by committee and agreement approach to enforcement. It's not perfect by any stretch but despite the inconsistencies and what not, I'd say that it's better than it's been for a long time.

It’s nowhere near what it used to be - perhaps the drama is better but it’s lost it’s integrity. How many of you were watching the winners podium or press conference and were wondering what Lewis and Charles were thinking about Max’s win, about the legality of his car and whether it was a fair fight competing against him? How many were thinking that Max chasing down Lewis was part skill and part suspicious car?

It’s difficult to watch sport in the moment when there is a question mark over the team that are running away with the spoils and the longer they leave it the worse it’ll get.

I could point to any number of examples over the past 40 years, possibly even before then, where the same could be said.

It's a sport that rewards innovation in spades which inevitably leads teams to push the boundaries of legality. Sometimes they get away with it. Sometimes they don't and sometimes, it is actually legal - despite the protests that call otherwise. Has long been the case.

I disagree, with respect. In the olden days there was innovation trickery and pushing the boundaries, but it was more open and almost always uncovered and any loophole closed. The period of flexi wings and blown diffusers is when all this skulduggery started and we never really got to the bottom of it.

In my mind, RBR have been the worst for this sport. They haven’t come to the sport with the history of the likes of Merc, Ferrari, Williams, Renault, McLaren and others, so they take risks and a win at all costs approach to the sport . They’re constantly pushing the boundaries, trying to gain an advantage over the others and at all costs.

At some point they’ll leave because they’re not in it for the sport, they’re in it for the advertising, the glamour, so controversy doesn’t really affect their day job. They’re not a car company, a Haas, Andretti, Reynard, they’re red bull the energy drink, like Monster, Rich energy and others.

I think you can go back way way further to find blatant cheating and skullduggery

[hot metal]

Always a case of `what would Charlie do ?`, the right thing, that`s what.

If a car cannot provide a 1 litre fuel sample after a race any points scored are lost, they showed that last year with Vettel, pretty harsh, no grey areas just

black or white. So the cost cap has to be approached the same way ,no sliding scale, no `oh, they only cheated a little bit` or `they cheated a little bit with

extra nuts` it should be black or white with a rule on building or team prep.

[Teddy Lop]

simon_harris said:

Inconsistent penalties have ever been a thing in F1 (ferrari barge boards anyone?) That it is not new does not make it any more appealing and recently it does seem to be much more blatant.

for the first time in many year I didn't watch the race this weekend, what was the point?

True about glaring inconsistencies and idiotic decisions being ever thus, but even against that backdrop it does seem a certain team can literally do nothing wrong at the moment, to the point you have to seriously wonder if there can be any explanation besides high level corruption.

In 3 decades of following I've not been this mentally tuned out since the early noughties.

[nordboy]

I honestly don't think the FIA really care. Anyone who is a long term watcher is no longer who the FIA is aiming F1 at. They're not interested, they want to appeal to a new generation or new market (USA) who will probably watch for a few years, then move on, only to be replaced by another new generation.
F1 and Indycar will get closer with regards to rules etc, they may not completely merge, that'll depend on $$$.

We're no longer in F1 watcher demographic.

[What The Deuces]

nordboy said:

I honestly don't think the FIA really care. Anyone who is a long term watcher is no longer who the FIA is aiming F1 at. .

The FIA don't have a commercial stake in F1 so they aren't aiming it at anything. Not sure what you mean.

[nordboy]

What The Deuces said:

The FIA don't have a commercial stake in F1 so they aren't aiming it at anything. Not sure what you mean.

So you don't think the FIA and Liberty speak to each other about the direction that F1 needs to or is going? The FIA are funded by the races, more traces, more support, m ore funding, how can they not have a vested interest?

[What The Deuces]

nordboy said:

So you don't think the FIA and Liberty speak to each other about the direction that F1 needs to or is going?

They do, but with no real skin in the game it's not the FIA driving the audience demographic