Truck on Track
Discussion
For me it is very disappointing that DRIVERS have not learnt lessons since Jules Bianchi lost his life following a crash at Suzuka 2015, at the time double yellows were being shown. Moving on to today, Gasly had previously passed the scene of Sainz crash, however under a full Safety Car Conditions he still felt it acceptable to travel at 250kph at times, although, when faced with a truck trying to recover Sainz car he blows his stack at his safety being put in jeopardy.
For me, the only person putting him in jeopardy is himself, shame on him that he didn't think of the poor marshals who were out there (unpaid with no apparent worth on their lives) trying to recover the crashed car and trying to keep the race going.
If we have learnt one BIG lesson today, it is you can't trust the DRIVERS to look after themselves. Therefore, in this Safety Conscious World all the FIA can do moving forward is to red flag any incident, neutralise the track (remove the drivers) then restart. This is what the they have brought on themselves.
Who'd want to be a track marshal with Pier driving at 250kph in todays conditions, if I could choose I'd rather be in his car than on the fringe of the track.
For me, the only person putting him in jeopardy is himself, shame on him that he didn't think of the poor marshals who were out there (unpaid with no apparent worth on their lives) trying to recover the crashed car and trying to keep the race going.
If we have learnt one BIG lesson today, it is you can't trust the DRIVERS to look after themselves. Therefore, in this Safety Conscious World all the FIA can do moving forward is to red flag any incident, neutralise the track (remove the drivers) then restart. This is what the they have brought on themselves.
Who'd want to be a track marshal with Pier driving at 250kph in todays conditions, if I could choose I'd rather be in his car than on the fringe of the track.
Edited by Spevs on Sunday 9th October 22:53
Spevs said:
For me it is very disappointing that DRIVERS have not learnt lessons since Jules Bianchi lost his life following a crash at Suzuka 2015, at the time double yellows were being shown. Moving on to today, Gasly had previously passed the scene of Sainz crash, however under a full Safety Car Conditions he still felt it acceptable to travel at 250kph at times, although, when faced with a truck trying to recover Sainz car he blows his stack at his safety being put in jeopardy.
For me, the only person putting him in jeopardy is himself, shame on him that he didn't think of the poor marshals who were out there (unpaid with no apparent worth on their lives) trying to recover the crashed car and trying to keep the race going.
If we have learnt one BIG lesson today, it is you can't trust the DRIVERS to look after themselves. Therefore, in this Safety Conscious World all the FIA can do moving forward is to red flag any incident, neutralise the track (remove the drivers) then restart. This is what the they have brought on themselves.
Who'd want to be a track marshal with Pier driving at 250kph in todays conditions, if I could choose I'd rather be in his car than on the fringe of the track.
I sort of agree with you, as there is an obvious safety issue of fast-moving race cars being on the track at the same time as recovery trucks.For me, the only person putting him in jeopardy is himself, shame on him that he didn't think of the poor marshals who were out there (unpaid with no apparent worth on their lives) trying to recover the crashed car and trying to keep the race going.
If we have learnt one BIG lesson today, it is you can't trust the DRIVERS to look after themselves. Therefore, in this Safety Conscious World all the FIA can do moving forward is to red flag any incident, neutralise the track (remove the drivers) then restart. This is what the they have brought on themselves.
Who'd want to be a track marshal with Pier driving at 250kph in todays conditions, if I could choose I'd rather be in his car than on the fringe of the track.
Edited by Spevs on Sunday 9th October 22:53
The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
boyse7en said:
I sort of agree with you, as there is an obvious safety issue of fast-moving race cars being on the track at the same time as recovery trucks.
The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
Plus would prevent the pot luck of getting a "free" pit stop under safety car laps.The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
iandc said:
boyse7en said:
I sort of agree with you, as there is an obvious safety issue of fast-moving race cars being on the track at the same time as recovery trucks.
The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
Plus would prevent the pot luck of getting a "free" pit stop under safety car laps.The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
boyse7en said:
Spevs said:
For me it is very disappointing that DRIVERS have not learnt lessons since Jules Bianchi lost his life following a crash at Suzuka 2015, at the time double yellows were being shown. Moving on to today, Gasly had previously passed the scene of Sainz crash, however under a full Safety Car Conditions he still felt it acceptable to travel at 250kph at times, although, when faced with a truck trying to recover Sainz car he blows his stack at his safety being put in jeopardy.
For me, the only person putting him in jeopardy is himself, shame on him that he didn't think of the poor marshals who were out there (unpaid with no apparent worth on their lives) trying to recover the crashed car and trying to keep the race going.
If we have learnt one BIG lesson today, it is you can't trust the DRIVERS to look after themselves. Therefore, in this Safety Conscious World all the FIA can do moving forward is to red flag any incident, neutralise the track (remove the drivers) then restart. This is what the they have brought on themselves.
Who'd want to be a track marshal with Pier driving at 250kph in todays conditions, if I could choose I'd rather be in his car than on the fringe of the track.
I sort of agree with you, as there is an obvious safety issue of fast-moving race cars being on the track at the same time as recovery trucks.For me, the only person putting him in jeopardy is himself, shame on him that he didn't think of the poor marshals who were out there (unpaid with no apparent worth on their lives) trying to recover the crashed car and trying to keep the race going.
If we have learnt one BIG lesson today, it is you can't trust the DRIVERS to look after themselves. Therefore, in this Safety Conscious World all the FIA can do moving forward is to red flag any incident, neutralise the track (remove the drivers) then restart. This is what the they have brought on themselves.
Who'd want to be a track marshal with Pier driving at 250kph in todays conditions, if I could choose I'd rather be in his car than on the fringe of the track.
Edited by Spevs on Sunday 9th October 22:53
The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
The idea of Gasly or any driver for that matter, bombing around in the rain to catch up the pack at speed negates the whole purpose of the safety car.
If you pit under the safety car, you should join the pack the next time it passes the end of pit lane. If you feel the need to change tyres or front wing, that's because you've broken them, not because you want a cheap pit stop. Remove this benefit, then you remove the requirement to speed under the safety car...
Oh.... and stick some big high intensity flashing things on the back of all the tractors..... you could not see that dingy tractor they were using!!!!
I think banning pit stops under safety car would be a good start, although you'd need to somehow deal with the situation where someone actually needs to pit because, for example, their tyres may not last the whole safety car period. However it's also blatantly obvious that heavy machinery and marshals shouldn't be on track at least until the cars have bunched up and stabilised behind the safety car, especially in those conditions!
I don't think we can blame Gasley really - he was driving to the FIA specified delta and any driver who didn't drive as fast as they were allowed to in that situation wouldn't keep their seat long. You can certainly make an argument that the delta should be much further from full racing speed in that sort of visibility though. And yes it's blatantly obvious that any recovery vehicles used on track should be far better lit in those conditions.
I don't think we can blame Gasley really - he was driving to the FIA specified delta and any driver who didn't drive as fast as they were allowed to in that situation wouldn't keep their seat long. You can certainly make an argument that the delta should be much further from full racing speed in that sort of visibility though. And yes it's blatantly obvious that any recovery vehicles used on track should be far better lit in those conditions.
Edited by kambites on Monday 10th October 11:07
Simple solution is to have a slow zone like in LeMans.
You have a point before the accident and a point after with a maximum time to pass through the zone. If you break the time then it’s a 10 sec stop and go. Works great at Le Mans.
Also I think they should ban pit stops under safety/Virtual safety car periods unless it’s for physical damage to the car and you can only fix the damage. No coming in and say oh the wing was damaged so we changed the tyres as well. Nope come in and fix the wing and come back in again to change your tyres if your wing is so badly damaged.
You have a point before the accident and a point after with a maximum time to pass through the zone. If you break the time then it’s a 10 sec stop and go. Works great at Le Mans.
Also I think they should ban pit stops under safety/Virtual safety car periods unless it’s for physical damage to the car and you can only fix the damage. No coming in and say oh the wing was damaged so we changed the tyres as well. Nope come in and fix the wing and come back in again to change your tyres if your wing is so badly damaged.
MB140 said:
You have a point before the accident and a point after with a maximum time to pass through the zone. If you break the time then it’s a 10 sec stop and go. Works great at Le Mans.
They sort of do, although the whole track covered by such zones during an F1 safety car - the driver has a time they have to be over for each mini-sector around the track. In this case Gasley was over that time, but with visibility being so poor that time was still far too fast to be safe with a heavy vehicle and marshals on track. Both sides were at fault. It was the same setup as the Bianchi incident. The driver not sufficiently slowing down, and the truck being along the same path as a car that had aquaplaned off the circuit. Gasly shouldn't have been doing 250kmh (but this may not be restricted by the rules, in which case the rulebook will need updating), but the truck should never have been in the firing line with any cars on track - they could slide off at safety car speeds if the rainfall had increased suddenly, for example.
Brainpox said:
Gasly shouldn't have been doing 250kmh
He wasn't at the point of the incident with the truck. His penalty was for driving too fast after the race had been red-flagged, after he had passed the truck; there is no question that he broke any rules in the run up to or while passing the recovery vehicle. Obviously speeding under red flag conditions isn't good and he was rightfully penalised for it, but it's nothing to do with the incident being discussed here. As the time he passed the truck, Gasley's driving was entirely within the rules.
The perfect storm again. Japan has the sort of culture where you act as soon as the senior party gives the nod. In fact you may jump too soon to impress the boss how flipping keen you are to impress.
The whole F1 circus is eager to show how keen it is to impress them! Enlessly telling us how keen,knowledgable and happy everyone is!
So things like a big truck or crane appear on the track within 0.002 seconds.
The whole F1 circus is eager to show how keen it is to impress them! Enlessly telling us how keen,knowledgable and happy everyone is!
So things like a big truck or crane appear on the track within 0.002 seconds.
The rules brought in post Bianchi crash where recovery vehicles need to be covered under a SC or VSC should be fine in most circumstances. But in certain instances where visibility and track conditions are so poor extra precautions should be applied. Even at low SC speeds there is a chance a driver could hit a river or puddle and aquaplane into a recovery vehicle or marshal.
However, I’d be in favour of the FIA coming down harshly on drivers not slowing appropriately in yellow flag zones. The drivers don’t slow down enough because it’s ingrained into them from ever they start karting that a yellow flag is just another opportunity to gain an advantage on your competition.
As for pitting under the safety car. I don’t mind it. It adds another variable to the race and often spices up what would otherwise have been dull races.
However, I’d be in favour of the FIA coming down harshly on drivers not slowing appropriately in yellow flag zones. The drivers don’t slow down enough because it’s ingrained into them from ever they start karting that a yellow flag is just another opportunity to gain an advantage on your competition.
As for pitting under the safety car. I don’t mind it. It adds another variable to the race and often spices up what would otherwise have been dull races.
freedman said:
Surely the answer is an immediate Virtual Safety car
That automatically brings everyone's speed down to an acceptable level
Once the truck or crew are removed go full SC and let anyone disadvantaged get back in the queue
Or Le Mans style "Slow zones" under pit limiter/some limiter for the duration, any area where a car has gone off of track/Marshals are getting involved. Technology proven there, just needs to be used in F1.That automatically brings everyone's speed down to an acceptable level
Once the truck or crew are removed go full SC and let anyone disadvantaged get back in the queue
iandc said:
boyse7en said:
I sort of agree with you, as there is an obvious safety issue of fast-moving race cars being on the track at the same time as recovery trucks.
The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
Plus would prevent the pot luck of getting a "free" pit stop under safety car laps.The idea of red-flagging the race would work but is too slow. If there is a crash where the driver may need medical attention, it is vital that marshalls and doctors can attend immediately, not have to wait for the race to be flagged and drivers to complete their lap back to the pits.
Banning pit stops under the safety car would at least mean the cars are bunched up and can be ushered around any attending vehicles.
Never realised previously but a truck on track seems to have occured on numerous occasions over the years at the Japanese GP.
Watch from 8 mins onwards...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zj1VobGdJU&t=...
Watch from 8 mins onwards...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zj1VobGdJU&t=...
ghuk said:
Never realised previously but a truck on track seems to have occured on numerous occasions over the years at the Japanese GP.
Watch from 8 mins onwards...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zj1VobGdJU&t=...
See, murray doesn't care lol.Watch from 8 mins onwards...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zj1VobGdJU&t=...
Actually any normal person on seeing that would have at least had an anecdote about his days as a tank commander in WW2.
Why did he behave like everything was such a big secret till he was approx 99.
Fundoreen said:
ghuk said:
Never realised previously but a truck on track seems to have occured on numerous occasions over the years at the Japanese GP.
Watch from 8 mins onwards...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zj1VobGdJU&t=...
See, murray doesn't care lol.Watch from 8 mins onwards...........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zj1VobGdJU&t=...
Actually any normal person on seeing that would have at least had an anecdote about his days as a tank commander in WW2.
Why did he behave like everything was such a big secret till he was approx 99.
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