Safety Cars and Virtual Safety Car

[andygo]

Over the years I think it's fair to say many races have been turned on their heads by the use of the SC and VSC.

Whilst I appreciate it may add to the 'excitement' I don't think it makes the results any more wholesome, but rather a little flukey.

I noticed today in the Sky coverage a graphic that showed the average pit stop time loss.

Why not give anyone that finds themself in an opportunisic position due to the SC and VSC a nominal time in the pits based on that average to remove what otherwise is a bit of a windfall for them?

Just chucking the idea out there chaps..

[130R]

I agree. Banning tyre changes under SC / VSC would be a potential solution

[vulture1]

Safety car restart should be under pit lane limiter until you cross the start finish straight to avoid the f2 shunt that happened.

[InformationSuperHighway]

130R said:

I agree. Banning tyre changes under SC / VSC would be a potential solution

Totally agree. The ‘cheap’ pit stops are too much of an advantage. Yes they are available to everyone, but it swings results artificially to much.

[Cold]

Good to know that the PH F1 Hive Mind is now behind ad-hoc rule changes.

[Pflanzgarten]

InformationSuperHighway said:

130R said:

I agree. Banning tyre changes under SC / VSC would be a potential solution

Totally agree. The ‘cheap’ pit stops are too much of an advantage. Yes they are available to everyone, but it swings results artificially to much.

So if you’re due to change you’d rather cars keep circulating with worn and potentially dangerous tyres?

If that’s tough luck, is it a different tough luck to those who lose out to a cheap pt stop under the present rules?

It shouldn’t be difficult to calculate the time lost under VSC or SC at every race and add that time as a stop/go penalty before working on the car.

SC means the pit stop is on average 7 seconds quicker, simply wait 7 seconds before working on the car.

[i_alan_i]

If you ban tyre changes during a safety car then what happens to the person who's done a good job of preserving their tyres and making then last? They will end up dead last at the back of the safety car chain, it's miles worse than the current situation.

Personally I think the advantage you very from putting under the safety car is fine, and it's often a well deserved reward for making your tyres last or taking a gamble on strategy. Sometimes it's just dumb luck and a bit annoying, but not usually.

[The_Nugget]

There is likely always someone that will be disadvantaged.
Imagine you are leading the race by 30 secs and due to change your tyres.
2nd place has pitted and you will emerge with a 10sec lead on fresh tyres.
Safety car happens. You can’t pit.
Now you have the whole pack immediately behind you and your tyres are shot.

[DocJock]

Safety car or VSC, all cars should automatically have pit lane limiters activated to preserve any lead the faster cars have established. It also means the restart is not controlled by the lead car.

Close the pitlane under SC/VSC. No worn tyres are going to suddenly disintegrate at 80kph for a few laps.

[andygo]

If you have to come in to pit for any reason under the S/C, thats absolutely fine, all I'm suggesting is that you don't gain a time advantage because you have pitted whilst all the other cars are forced to go slowly. Just prevents curveballs being thrown into a race result.

[vaud]

130R said:

I agree. Banning tyre changes under SC / VSC would be a potential solution

I disagree. Good chance that cars have driven through debris as well as being at end of tyre life.

[cuprabob]

Leave it as is. I like that it's another variable for the strategists to take into account. Like other strategy calls, there are winners and lovers.

[satfinal]

IMSA has tried to deal with advantage gains under double yellow cautions recently, and it fking sucks. When a caution is called, pitlane is closed until the pack is formed, then the pit is opened and everyone darts in. It makes every yellow period take a minimum of 20 minutes.

No knee-jerk reactions are needed, what goes around comes around.

[pquinn]

Cold said:

Good to know that the PH F1 Hive Mind is now behind ad-hoc rule changes.

Seems to depend who benefited/lost out on a particular day. Slightly different finishing order and the same rules become brilliant...

[pquinn]

cuprabob said:

Leave it as is. I like that it's another variable for the strategists to take into account. Like other strategy calls, there are winners and lovers.

Strategy does often end with someone getting fked...

[//j17]

The WEC system seems to work 'OK' (not perfect, but better than the current race roulette). As soon as the SC boards come out pit entry remains open, so cars that need to can box but pit exit is closed, and only re-opens when the tail of the SC train passes pit out. At that point any cars queued at pit out are released onto the tail of the SC train and pit exit closed again for another lap.

If you need to pit, you can but you know it will put you at the back of the grid. None of the nonsense where random cars can pit/get back out without losing a place while the car they were behind ends up at the back of the grid, just because the SC boards happened to come out after one car/before the second car had passed pit in.

[paulw123]

I was going to post similar to the OP. Whilst I begrudgingly accept that F1 is a spectacle over a fair sport and the rules are there to support pitting under a SC the SC is just pure luck (well unless you have a sister team who can engineer a SC….)
Strategy is all well and good but when you can do everything right and get your race ruined purely by the SC it’s doesn’t sit quite right. Lewis yesterday and CLC even worse earlier in the season. If the VSC and SC is purely about safety then the pit lane can be closed during it like they do when the incident is near the pit lane. VSC should also have electronic limiters in place to do it’s totally fair.

[mw88]

pquinn said:

Cold said:

Good to know that the PH F1 Hive Mind is now behind ad-hoc rule changes.

Seems to depend who benefited/lost out on a particular day. Slightly different finishing order and the same rules become brilliant...

Yup...

Might aswell have them sat at home playing F1 22 with weather, damage, tyre wear and fuel consumption all turned off - That way no one can be disadvantaged by anything. Unless someone's internet is slightly laggy or goes down, then we'd need a complete rethink

[CABC]

it certainly feels like F1 has way less 'proper' overtaking than other formulas/series. Remove pit stop under cuts, SC and the delightful DRS and overtakes between competitive cars seem rare. so often the drama is nothing to do with pure racing.
Any statistical analysis available?

[Dingu]

I think it’s fine how it is. I would question whether pitting should be allowed when the safety car and field is diverted through the pits though. Seems unnecessarily risky although I appreciate they are going at the pit limiter speed and it can get busy at other times too.