D4 or not D4...

[Bill]

Current car is/was a 2010 Discovery 4 that now looks to be totalled. We've had it 4 years and it's suited us very well. It's needed some maintenance (as expected) but has been reliable (IKR!!).

There's nothing we didn't like about it. Small issues are lack of Android auto or Bluetooth streaming (got round by using my phone and a lead...) and not Euro6 so LEZs are a pain, and possible issues in France on holiday. However we rarely drive in cities so the occasional £12.50 to go into London isn't a massive issue.

Main issue is space. We're fairly tall, wife and I 6'+ (although shrinking ), 14-y-o is 6'2" and doesn't seem to have stopped, the other 2 kids aren't going to be short and we keep cars for years. The D4 was meant to be my last practical family car.

Like AWD - tow things regularly, live on a muddy, very occasionally snowy lane, drive on holidays including skiing, rarely "off road" as such but glad of the ability on a semi regular basis. Could manage without but might need to rely on friends to get a trailer to the road.

7 seats useful, but not as essential as it was when the kids were younger.

Big boot also useful. It was full to the brim on the current holiday, but we could have added a roofbox. Has been full + roofbox on previous holidays but we could learn to leave some of the lifestyle kit at home and rent paddleboards and kayaks etc when we're away.

Wife likes the comfort and (apparent) crash resistance.

So what, if anything, should I consider instead??

[nordboy]

Not sure on budget, but a Skoda superb will have all the room you'll ever need, including for 6/7 ft plus kids, the room inside is phenomenal, and huge boot as well, especially the estate. And then a set of winter wheels/ tyres for the few times you'll need them.

[Bill]

I looked at them when we bought the D4 but the middle seat in the back is very narrow IIRC.

[Bill]

Forgot budget... £20k. Ish, if that gets something half decent these days??

[GreatGranny]

I would stick to a 7 seater.

We made the mistake of going from an XC90 to an estate when our 3 got older but they just moaned about lack of room so we quickly sold it and bought another XC90.

I'm a Volvo fan so would go XC90 (need a little budget creep)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206237...

or X5

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208068...

[Bill]

Will have to revisit the XC90. I tried one when we were considering the D4 and it was all a bit slow and wobbly.

Not convinced about the X5, IIRC from previously it's surprisingly tight inside.

I'm sowing the seeds of getting SWMBO to give up her shed Mazda for an MPV so I can get something interesting. She's really not going for it!

[Krikkit]

Another D4 and fit a bluetooth head unit adapter.

[williamp]

Santa fe?

7 seats and a very long warranty

[300bhp/ton]

Bill said:

Current car is/was a 2010 Discovery 4 that now looks to be totalled. We've had it 4 years and it's suited us very well. It's needed some maintenance (as expected) but has been reliable (IKR!!).

There's nothing we didn't like about it. Small issues are lack of Android auto or Bluetooth streaming (got round by using my phone and a lead...) and not Euro6 so LEZs are a pain, and possible issues in France on holiday. However we rarely drive in cities so the occasional £12.50 to go into London isn't a massive issue.

Main issue is space. We're fairly tall, wife and I 6'+ (although shrinking ), 14-y-o is 6'2" and doesn't seem to have stopped, the other 2 kids aren't going to be short and we keep cars for years. The D4 was meant to be my last practical family car.

Like AWD - tow things regularly, live on a muddy, very occasionally snowy lane, drive on holidays including skiing, rarely "off road" as such but glad of the ability on a semi regular basis. Could manage without but might need to rely on friends to get a trailer to the road.

7 seats useful, but not as essential as it was when the kids were younger.

Big boot also useful. It was full to the brim on the current holiday, but we could have added a roofbox. Has been full + roofbox on previous holidays but we could learn to leave some of the lifestyle kit at home and rent paddleboards and kayaks etc when we're away.

Wife likes the comfort and (apparent) crash resistance.

So what, if anything, should I consider instead??

£20k deposit on a new Pretender? You seem to be all over them in every thread :P


On a more serious note.. There isn't much like the D4 when all said any done. Not that ticks all those boxes. The D5 is ugly be comparison and a less practical shape. The new Defender isn't as practical an lot more money.

I guess sensible vehicles to consider would be an L320 RRS. Same basic platform as the D4, but a bit smaller overall. But you can get them with the 3.6 TDV8, which is a much nicer engine than the TDV6 and you don't run the risk of snappy cranks.....

Likewise, a very tidy L322 TDV8 4.4 would be easily in budget. Much more posh inside than the D4 and still big, but only 5 seats like the RRS. The 4.4 TDV8 is an epic powerplant. Probably the best engine fitted to a modern Land Rover product!

You might want to check out prices of an L405 or L494 RR and RRS too. Suspect they aren't far off your budget. But you'll be looking at the smaller engine ones, not the V8's.


The Velar and F-Pace could be candidates too, less off roady and more on road focused. And not as big (lower tow rating too I think). But may well suit primary on road use more.


--N.B. Its almost odd how much crossover the JLR line-up has.... one of the reasons a lot of people were disappointed with new Defender, as it only does the same things as the other models. Not something different.


If looking away from Land Rover. There are some Jeeps. The Commander is almost D4 sized, but looks a bit odd on small tyres IMO. No chance of snappy cranks with the Jeep, the Commander would be quite a bit cheaper too. The Grand Cheorkee would also be a contender, albeit they are more RRS sized or slightly smaller again. But would do most of the things you say you are after. Although you may want to check the tow ratings, they may be 3T instead of 3.5T.

The JK Wrangler would also be in budget. The Phase II model has a 2.8 litre 200hp diesel. With performance not quite as strong as the D4, but better than a 2.7 TDV6 D3. Maybe not quite as luxury inside, but similar. The biggest difference with the Wrangler is the recreational side of the vehicle. The D3 will probably go better in more comfort. But the Jeep is far more likely to make you smile when you drive it.

Last up, I really like the Shogun 4th Gen. They also only have 200hp, so down on performance compared to a D4 and maybe not quite as big or practical. But have other charms. Think they are a 3T tow rating, not 3.5T but you'd need to check.

Not sure things like the XC90 would really be alternatives for a D4. Be too road focused, more of a Velar alternative in my mind.

[jfdi]

Mercedes GL / GLS (depending on age) 7 seats, huge boot (when seating 5), proper awd with diff locks, adjustable air suspension and no common serious issues like cranks snapping.

If 7 seats is not important then also consider the slightly smaller ML / GLE. All be it they're not quite as well equipped as the equivalent GL / GLS models.

I've got a 2010 GL 450, tows a twin axle caravan effortlessly. V6 350's are more common but if you can find a V8 450 they tend to have better interiors with real leather. The tax is the same (v. high) only 1 or 2 mpg below the V6. Well worth it for the 700ft/lb of torque

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd take a look at the 4.2tdi Q7:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208098...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207268...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204224...

Or if 5 seats can work then the Cayenne 4.2tdi is a good option:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208028...

Or the Grand Cherokee Summit is a very good option & it'll be ULEZ/CAZ compliant:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206076...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207127...

Overland:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208098...

[Bill]

Thanks all for the input (even 300bhp* ). The main problem with most of the suggestions is space. The skinny middle seat in row 2 is a complete non-starter and the sloping sides and boot lid of things like the Q7 and Cayenne really reduce boot space.


* Wrangler is too small; Commander - 5.7l V8 tempting, but look at it; Jeep GC - prefer the previous shape but on the list for a look, suspect rear middle seat/boot too small; Shogun - just no; RR/RRS hadn't considered them TBH, suspect the middle seat/boot might be to small but will look. But IIRC they did the RRS with 7 seats???? XC90 is definitely on the radar, if I'm honest with myself I only pushed the D4 off road once, it was mostly on road by some margin.

Hadn't appreciated the GL Vs ML difference so GL on the list for a look although they're a bit bling to my eyes and all in either black or white.

[Inspectorclueso]

Interesting thread OP as my needs ie space, need to tow, 3 decent rear seats are same as yours. I landed on a D5 had this since march, it’s a 2019 3 litre, and it’s been very good. We’ve done some big road trips, fully loaded and some towing. We often use the 3rd row seats even if just 5 of us in it as it gives the kids lots of space and the 3rd row seats are full size, not the same in all so called 7 seaters. It did stretch the budget, but I’m finding it worth the investment.

I’ve also had a GL420. Very good car, epic engine, but I wouldn’t say as spacious as the disco. They’re a bit narrow so the rear seats are good for 3 across in my opinion. But May be worth you checking one out.

We did consider a Q7 but my wife liked the D5 so I’m fairness I didn’t fry a Q7. I do hear they are decent space wise though.

I don’t think you’ll find a normal estate car that gets near on space. I certainly haven’t and an MPV wouldn’t work for us due to towing a heavy twin axle.

Good luck !

[Inspectorclueso]

Correcting the above. GL rear seats I didn’t find good for 3.

[wiliferus]

What about a Land Cruiser. Big, 7 seats, robust. The only down side I suppose is they hold value so you’ll be looking at a 100k mile example. But if that doesn’t bother you, worth a look.

[jon-yprpe]

Why not a newer D4 if nothing else suits? We had a 2015 adblue D4 with the SDV6 and it was brilliant at everything.

The D5 we now have is great, but prices are high and the TD6 engine isn’t as smooth with just the one turbo.

We’re prob averaging similar mpg in both…early 30s.

[Walter Sobchak]

300bhp/ton said:

I guess sensible vehicles to consider would be an L320 RRS. Same basic platform as the D4, but a bit smaller overall. But you can get them with the 3.6 TDV8, which is a much nicer engine than the TDV6 and you don't run the risk of snappy cranks.....

Likewise, a very tidy L322 TDV8 4.4 would be easily in budget. Much more posh inside than the D4 and still big, but only 5 seats like the RRS. The 4.4 TDV8 is an epic powerplant. Probably the best engine fitted to a modern Land Rover product!
.

Can wholeheartedly agree with all this, as much as I like the D4 as a car the V6 Diesel engines potential issues would put me off.

The 4.4 TDV8 with the ZF8 speed is a brilliant combination, and pretty robust and issue free so a good plus for an LR engine!.
I’ve driven an L322 a friend owned with this engine in and it felt more refined,quieter and definitely pokier than the 3.6 version I had in my L322, I’ve driven an L405 with the SDV8 variant and don’t think there’s much difference in terms of the engine.

While it’s not as common or as costly as the cranks going in the V6 engines the 3.6 TDV8s can blow turbos, although it’s not something they all do and a lot of causes of it can be avoided by some mechanical sympathy and regular maintenance.

[Stuart70]

GreatGranny said:

I would stick to a 7 seater.

We made the mistake of going from an XC90 to an estate when our 3 got older but they just moaned about lack of room so we quickly sold it and bought another XC90.

I'm a Volvo fan so would go XC90 (need a little budget creep)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206237...

or X5

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202208068...

Agree with this, had an old shape XC90, changed to V90XC which was all the car we objectively needed, Now in a new shape XC90 because it is all easier with more space (two six foot plus adult kids who still travel with us occasionally and two dogs),

Thoroughly recommend the Volvo vs the Disco option.

[Silvanus]

Couple of left field choices, Merc R-class 6/7 seats. Or go 5 seats, Subaru Tribeca, Nissan Murano, Infiniti QX70 or Kia Sorrento (quite new too). Non are off roaders but all have 4 wheel drive and are pretty solid, bit different too

[Bill]

williamp said:

Santa fe?

7 seats and a very long warranty

Sorry, missed this earlier. This and the Sorrento have tiny middle seats.