Have things ever been better for TVR?
Discussion
With the new owner now settled in and with the company presumably well financed, the 3 year warranty in place and the fantastic new Sagaris and Tuscan 2 (not to mention the Tam and T350) selling like hot cakes judging by the number of new owners on here, have things ever been so good for TVR?
The company history seems to be littered with one crisis or another, the quality problems associated with the AJP and S6 under the previous regeime the latest. TVR 1 makes some very good points about issues rlating to sourcing and changes that have been made post PW in his posts on the "TVR London" thread.
Despite all the negativity on here (most of it seemingly illogical) about the new ownership perhaps this really is the start of the golden age of TVR? As someone who loves TVRs I really hope it is. The new cars are all fantastic and deserve to sell well, which they seem to be doing.
All in all I think its a great time to be a TVR fan.
The company history seems to be littered with one crisis or another, the quality problems associated with the AJP and S6 under the previous regeime the latest. TVR 1 makes some very good points about issues rlating to sourcing and changes that have been made post PW in his posts on the "TVR London" thread.
Despite all the negativity on here (most of it seemingly illogical) about the new ownership perhaps this really is the start of the golden age of TVR? As someone who loves TVRs I really hope it is. The new cars are all fantastic and deserve to sell well, which they seem to be doing.
All in all I think its a great time to be a TVR fan.
yi8tvr said:
Could not agree more, the only down side is pistonheads for TVR. this place must put hundreds of people off. Fact is one thing Crap is another.
Me too! Often thought us owners do the marque no favours by being too negative (me included sometimes) Fact is that there is nothing quite like a TVR and that's why I traded a beautiful and well sorted Masser 3200 to get back into one!
>> Edited by cgibson on Thursday 11th August 10:29
crankedup said:
Its one thing to sort out problems which are easily identified - job done. But another to take the company on and up, I'm waiting with baited breath to see a N.S. TVR design.
Fair point. But we shouldn't criticise in advance should we? Let the PH massive at least see any new car before ripping it to shreads.
Are you an antique dealer?
Totally agree with Unrepentant. Think we are experiencing the "glory days" now. OK we still have engines going pop and, regrettably, that doesn't look like it will go away in a hurry, but we also have the feel-good factor of the new Sagaris being out-there plus last year's Le Mans euphoria!
As for the doom and gloom merchants on this site, well they are entitled to their opinion and, instead of putting me off buying a TVR, this site helped me go in with my eyes wide open.
I think what most non-tivers don't understand is that whilst we TVR drivers are quite happy to moan and groan about our own cars, we all stand united when say a Porsche owner decides to have a go at our beloved marque!
Anyway - at last, a positive thread!
As for the doom and gloom merchants on this site, well they are entitled to their opinion and, instead of putting me off buying a TVR, this site helped me go in with my eyes wide open.
I think what most non-tivers don't understand is that whilst we TVR drivers are quite happy to moan and groan about our own cars, we all stand united when say a Porsche owner decides to have a go at our beloved marque!
Anyway - at last, a positive thread!
Although I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about the durability of the engines yet, I think that having independant reputable specialists able to work on the engines is a huge step forwards. It means that owners are no longer hostage to the timescales and prices set by the factory if a rebuild is required. One of the strengths of the RV8 for me (apart from the glorious sound
) is that there are dozens of outfits up and down the country who can rebuild it for me, within a reasonable timescale and for a reasonable cost. Being able to offer customers a choice of repairers for the TVR engines is IMO a huge step in the right direction.
) is that there are dozens of outfits up and down the country who can rebuild it for me, within a reasonable timescale and for a reasonable cost. Being able to offer customers a choice of repairers for the TVR engines is IMO a huge step in the right direction.Lets be realistic, the 'glory days' from a business point of view must have been the mid 90's when they were selling around 2000 cars per year. I am a huge TVR fan, but the current line up just does'nt quite have the same broad appeal of Chim/Griff/Cerb.
Also, until the Speed 6 is fully sorted, ( i know its getting better )they're unlikely to get sales to the same dizzy heights! Just my humble opinion of course
Also, until the Speed 6 is fully sorted, ( i know its getting better )they're unlikely to get sales to the same dizzy heights! Just my humble opinion of course
Things are definitely looking better, especially from a customer point of view. Sales appear to be good, but TVR need to start making profit, rather than the gross losses seen in the last few years accounts!
People often frown upon the Chimaera 400 as being slow (in comparison to other models), but it was the bread and butter for TVR in the 90's. I can't help thinking that, as a business, they could benefit from an entry level car which is boxster paced and similarly priced.
Evo suggested the Tamora was to be such a car, but with a 0-100mph of 9 secs, it's pretty hardcore.
All the current cars are fantastic, but TVR need to generate the sales and profit to survive, and more importantly generate healthy cashflow.
If a business continues to lose money, eventually it will fail (or be sold on), no matter how wealthy the director is.
People often frown upon the Chimaera 400 as being slow (in comparison to other models), but it was the bread and butter for TVR in the 90's. I can't help thinking that, as a business, they could benefit from an entry level car which is boxster paced and similarly priced.
Evo suggested the Tamora was to be such a car, but with a 0-100mph of 9 secs, it's pretty hardcore.
All the current cars are fantastic, but TVR need to generate the sales and profit to survive, and more importantly generate healthy cashflow.
If a business continues to lose money, eventually it will fail (or be sold on), no matter how wealthy the director is.
jsr said:
I can't help thinking that, as a business, they could benefit from an entry level car which is boxster paced and similarly priced.
Evo suggested the Tamora was to be such a car, but with a 0-100mph of 9 secs, it's pretty hardcore.
A slower more feminine car you mean?
The T2 is not that much more than a boxster is it?
If they were going to go down that route I would have thought that a £25k "S" replacement would be the answer.
I may have a strong bias here but I'm looking forward to a new car design with a healthy amount of optimism, especially given some of the ideas I've heard are being knocked about.
The Benelli link-up should be an interesting one too, as will other link-ups in the future which appears a distinct possibility given NS's apparent liking for such methods.
I'm watching this space with interest and looking forward to the day when I can afford a new Tiv.
The Benelli link-up should be an interesting one too, as will other link-ups in the future which appears a distinct possibility given NS's apparent liking for such methods.
I'm watching this space with interest and looking forward to the day when I can afford a new Tiv.
As most people have said... Time Will Tell.
However, the dealers are having a very hard time of it. New cars are NOT selling and that is making life dificult for them.
On the upside there are changes comming from the factory that will expand their sales oportunities. Also NS is brining out a car that will fully comply with EU regs and will open up into the European market. This can only be a good thing for TVR, with more sales they will have more money to invest etc.
The key issue for TVR is to get rid of the 'oh you have a TVR, nice but unreliable!' and the only way to do that is to sell cars that work, with a waranty that covers the minor niggles that all new cars have. I belive that this is where TVR are heading and that is why I have just bought a new Sagaris.....
That and I just could not afford to run the Tuscan any more
However, the dealers are having a very hard time of it. New cars are NOT selling and that is making life dificult for them.
On the upside there are changes comming from the factory that will expand their sales oportunities. Also NS is brining out a car that will fully comply with EU regs and will open up into the European market. This can only be a good thing for TVR, with more sales they will have more money to invest etc.
The key issue for TVR is to get rid of the 'oh you have a TVR, nice but unreliable!' and the only way to do that is to sell cars that work, with a waranty that covers the minor niggles that all new cars have. I belive that this is where TVR are heading and that is why I have just bought a new Sagaris.....
That and I just could not afford to run the Tuscan any more
dvpeace said:
However, the dealers are having a very hard time of it. New cars are NOT selling and that is making life dificult for them.
I find that really difficult to believe. Maybe some dealers are not selling enough cars but you only have to look at the number of new T2 and Sagaris owners appearing all the time on here to see that the uptake is very good. If TVR, as has been suggested on here, were only selling C500 cars a year then sales have to be increasing.
unrepentant said:
However, the dealers are having a very hard time of it. New cars are NOT selling and that is making life dificult for them.
I find that really difficult to believe. Maybe some dealers are not selling enough cars but you only have to look at the number of new T2 and Sagaris owners appearing all the time on here to see that the uptake is very good. If TVR, as has been suggested on here, were only selling C500 cars a year then sales have to be increasing.
Ok I can only go with what my dealer tells me. He said that they had a lot of pre orders for the cars but now they have been delivered they have had no new orders since the demonstrators came out! Well one or two including mine.
The other dealers are (according to mine) reporting dificulties too. I think there is quite a lot of uncertanty with TVR and people need to get a comfort level. I got a good deal on a new one that I think will see me through the next couple of years. I'll know then if I made the right decision or not.
Sorry Unrep.
Downside;
1. At its PW height TVR were making 1500-2000 cars per year. Doubt it is a many as 500 (actually ordered) right now.
2. There are some new owners on PH, but I can't count more than 30, 50 max. So that's not good enough. (And as we say in medical circles ancedotal evidence is worthless - which is why I asked tvr1 how many orders there are to which he replied 'lots', which doesn't tell us how many, if they are with deposits or just in his fevered imagination.
3. TVR and the customers HAVE lost a lot of good dealers, but there are some new ones. Some dealers have taken on other marques and the ones I know have heavy second hand stock (which is not moving if you follow their web-sites) and few new orders.
4. High staff turnover at the factory is never a good sign
5. TVR London will not last - believe me on this one.
6. Typhon postponed (?indefinitely)
7. Speed 6 cured? Or just marginally improved.
Upsides;
1. NS has put money in
2. 3 year warranty
3. Sagaris looks and sounds great
4. My Cerb has been brilliantly fettled by Peninsula and is going like a rocket sled - cheers Justin and the boys
4.Errr...that's it.
So things have definitely been better for TVR in the past, BUT it is true that things have also been much worse - near liquidation at end of Martin Lilley's reign (and on other occasions)
The point I am trying to make is that I want TVR to succeed and I love my TVR (even if you don't believe me!) but the image of the cxompany is damaged and the direction is not clear.
Solution;
1. Fix the Speed 6 AND prove it or scrap it and buy in reliable alternative
2. Fix broken Speed 6's under 30k with FTVRSH regardless of age
3. PR assault and communicate pro-actively with TVRCC and other owners
4. Support the dealers properly
5. Answer the phone and sound like you are interested in the enquiry/problem.
6. Get the best engineers you can and keep them
7. Design a stonking new motor.
(8. Build a new factory)
So things could be worse,
BUT could things be better and it is no use pretending otherwise.
PS This post is certified balanced and non-abusive, please respect each other's opinions
Downside;
1. At its PW height TVR were making 1500-2000 cars per year. Doubt it is a many as 500 (actually ordered) right now.
2. There are some new owners on PH, but I can't count more than 30, 50 max. So that's not good enough. (And as we say in medical circles ancedotal evidence is worthless - which is why I asked tvr1 how many orders there are to which he replied 'lots', which doesn't tell us how many, if they are with deposits or just in his fevered imagination.
3. TVR and the customers HAVE lost a lot of good dealers, but there are some new ones. Some dealers have taken on other marques and the ones I know have heavy second hand stock (which is not moving if you follow their web-sites) and few new orders.
4. High staff turnover at the factory is never a good sign
5. TVR London will not last - believe me on this one.
6. Typhon postponed (?indefinitely)
7. Speed 6 cured? Or just marginally improved.
Upsides;
1. NS has put money in
2. 3 year warranty
3. Sagaris looks and sounds great
4. My Cerb has been brilliantly fettled by Peninsula and is going like a rocket sled - cheers Justin and the boys
4.Errr...that's it.
So things have definitely been better for TVR in the past, BUT it is true that things have also been much worse - near liquidation at end of Martin Lilley's reign (and on other occasions)
The point I am trying to make is that I want TVR to succeed and I love my TVR (even if you don't believe me!) but the image of the cxompany is damaged and the direction is not clear.
Solution;
1. Fix the Speed 6 AND prove it or scrap it and buy in reliable alternative
2. Fix broken Speed 6's under 30k with FTVRSH regardless of age
3. PR assault and communicate pro-actively with TVRCC and other owners
4. Support the dealers properly
5. Answer the phone and sound like you are interested in the enquiry/problem.
6. Get the best engineers you can and keep them
7. Design a stonking new motor.
(8. Build a new factory)
So things could be worse,
BUT could things be better and it is no use pretending otherwise.
PS This post is certified balanced and non-abusive, please respect each other's opinions
CiderwithCerbie said:
...
6. Typhon postponed (?indefinitely) ...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157287&f=107&h=0
Supercharging & new gearbox big steps, so LOTS of testing required.....
While the Sagaris is a dramitic looking and refined performance machine it isn't quite as mad
as say the Marcos TSO GT2, more welly is required at TVR to match the advances in driving dynamics IMHO. There must be a long term engine plan at TVR and since the Speed 6 is as people have mentioned.. large for a 6, then future developments must come from supercharging?
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