Porsche Carrera Cup - how is it affordable?
Discussion
Just some thoughts while watching btcc coverage the other day...
The Carrera Cup cars are an absolutely awesome bit of kit, 500-odd hp and sound fantastic, but, how the hell do any of the teams afford them? They're fairly poorly televised, not particularly well known, yet the cars cost upwards of half a million to buy any run for a season, and that's without personnel costs.
It seems like a huge amount of money for not much gain, you could be on the back of the BTCC grid for that kind of cash.
The Carrera Cup cars are an absolutely awesome bit of kit, 500-odd hp and sound fantastic, but, how the hell do any of the teams afford them? They're fairly poorly televised, not particularly well known, yet the cars cost upwards of half a million to buy any run for a season, and that's without personnel costs.
It seems like a huge amount of money for not much gain, you could be on the back of the BTCC grid for that kind of cash.
Affluent gentlemen racers can impress their chums and/or potential suitors with the phrase 'I was racing my Porsche...' which sounds better than 'I was racing my Ford Focus....'.
Also, a good stepping stone to other Porsche or GT racing series if you are an aspiring pro driver.
Finally. I suspect the cars have decent resale value as they can be used in other series which must help with costs - not much you can do with an obsolete BTCC car.
Also, a good stepping stone to other Porsche or GT racing series if you are an aspiring pro driver.
Finally. I suspect the cars have decent resale value as they can be used in other series which must help with costs - not much you can do with an obsolete BTCC car.
Krikkit said:
Just some thoughts while watching btcc coverage the other day...
The Carrera Cup cars are an absolutely awesome bit of kit, 500-odd hp and sound fantastic, but, how the hell do any of the teams afford them? They're fairly poorly televised, not particularly well known, yet the cars cost upwards of half a million to buy any run for a season, and that's without personnel costs.
It seems like a huge amount of money for not much gain, you could be on the back of the BTCC grid for that kind of cash.
Daddy. And a bit of tax breaks in sponsorship (from Daddy’s company).The Carrera Cup cars are an absolutely awesome bit of kit, 500-odd hp and sound fantastic, but, how the hell do any of the teams afford them? They're fairly poorly televised, not particularly well known, yet the cars cost upwards of half a million to buy any run for a season, and that's without personnel costs.
It seems like a huge amount of money for not much gain, you could be on the back of the BTCC grid for that kind of cash.
It’s the driver (or driver’s daddy) who pays, not the team. They fund the team’s business.
Although not cheap to run anymore the cars are excellent and have a strong worldwide market so are popular in many series (for example Creventic). As a result they hold their money.
Granted it's 10 years ago now but when I raced in PCCGB quite a number of the drivers owned their own cars as you'd get your money back for them at the end of the year as they got loaded into the truck, no re-prep costs, I even sold my second year's car with damage. Literally wheeled out of a truck and into a container bound for Australia.
Also despite not being as well covered as BTCC it is still a series with a lot of coverage with the prestige of the brand and excellent series hospo that Porsche offer so there is some sponsorship knocking about. When I raced in it is was generally a very nice and professional atmosphere to the paddock, you certainly didn't feel like a second class citizen like you can sometimes in some of the other support race championships. Externally that doesn't look to have changed.
All of the above also makes it appealing to Gents and ProAm drivers, particularly the faster ones as it's competitive.
That said because it's expensive these days it does render it sensitive to any changes in the regs/wider market/atmosphere/support/etc. Historically it hasn't taken much to upset the apple cart and there have been a few instances of the grid sizes collapsing over the years. It's testament to the appeal that it's recovered from it each time, and when they get it right you can see it's big grids full of top teams like at the moment.
Granted it's 10 years ago now but when I raced in PCCGB quite a number of the drivers owned their own cars as you'd get your money back for them at the end of the year as they got loaded into the truck, no re-prep costs, I even sold my second year's car with damage. Literally wheeled out of a truck and into a container bound for Australia.
Also despite not being as well covered as BTCC it is still a series with a lot of coverage with the prestige of the brand and excellent series hospo that Porsche offer so there is some sponsorship knocking about. When I raced in it is was generally a very nice and professional atmosphere to the paddock, you certainly didn't feel like a second class citizen like you can sometimes in some of the other support race championships. Externally that doesn't look to have changed.
All of the above also makes it appealing to Gents and ProAm drivers, particularly the faster ones as it's competitive.
That said because it's expensive these days it does render it sensitive to any changes in the regs/wider market/atmosphere/support/etc. Historically it hasn't taken much to upset the apple cart and there have been a few instances of the grid sizes collapsing over the years. It's testament to the appeal that it's recovered from it each time, and when they get it right you can see it's big grids full of top teams like at the moment.
There are 15,000 Ultra High Net Worth (UHNW) individuals in the world. That's people with $100m or more. If you come down to a net worth of $30m, there are literally hundreds of thousands of people in that category.
That's far more wealth than you'd need to run a race team privately, never mind the business angle, tax breaks etc.
You could fill 500 Carrera Cup race grids (30 cars ish) with just the UHNW individuals alone in the world.
How is it affordable? Simply, there are bloody loads of insanely wealthy people on the planet.
That's far more wealth than you'd need to run a race team privately, never mind the business angle, tax breaks etc.
You could fill 500 Carrera Cup race grids (30 cars ish) with just the UHNW individuals alone in the world.
How is it affordable? Simply, there are bloody loads of insanely wealthy people on the planet.
The Wookie said:
Granted it's 10 years ago now but when I raced in PCCGB quite a number of the drivers owned their own cars as you'd get your money back for them at the end of the year as they got loaded into the truck, no re-prep costs, I even sold my second year's car with damage. Literally wheeled out of a truck and into a container bound for Australia.
Thanks Wookie I was secretly hoping you might see the thread and weigh in.Very good point on the residuals, I hadn't really connected the dots despite seeing them on everyone's favourite time sink of race cars direct
Also good point from other posters about tax write offs etc
Krikkit said:
Just some thoughts while watching btcc coverage the other day...
The Carrera Cup cars are an absolutely awesome bit of kit, 500-odd hp and sound fantastic, but, how the hell do any of the teams afford them? They're fairly poorly televised, not particularly well known, yet the cars cost upwards of half a million to buy any run for a season, and that's without personnel costs.
It seems like a huge amount of money for not much gain, you could be on the back of the BTCC grid for that kind of cash.
The carrera cup cars are just under £170k from Porsche. Cost to run them for a season depending on team plus entry fees etc be another six figure sum ignoring damage. Most people will be running this through their own business. The Carrera Cup cars are an absolutely awesome bit of kit, 500-odd hp and sound fantastic, but, how the hell do any of the teams afford them? They're fairly poorly televised, not particularly well known, yet the cars cost upwards of half a million to buy any run for a season, and that's without personnel costs.
It seems like a huge amount of money for not much gain, you could be on the back of the BTCC grid for that kind of cash.
Why not! Just part of the never ending scale of motorsport…. Le Man gentleman racers will be doing £8-10m a season or more…. Etc etc.
I would if I could!
whp1983 said:
The carrera cup cars are just under £170k from Porsche.
€225k plus taxes for the 992 apparently. I presume there's some upgrade options etc like the old days still (video, datalogger, etc)whp1983 said:
I would if I could!
Me too, absolutely. I can see why Fassbender got his wallet out to get onto the grid at the 24h.Edited by Krikkit on Monday 22 August 12:47
If I were to win the lottery tomorrow, and had the means, I'd rather be in a 911 Cup car, than in a BTCC car.
I think it would be one of the first things I'd push to do, as well as getting licence upgrades to race in Europe, and follow the Michael Fassbender route towards LeMans (youtube)
Unless you're looking for some return on investment in advertising benefit (which I kinda think the OP question is about), I don't think there is a better way to spend a euromillions win, and 9-5 job free existence.
I think it would be one of the first things I'd push to do, as well as getting licence upgrades to race in Europe, and follow the Michael Fassbender route towards LeMans (youtube)
Unless you're looking for some return on investment in advertising benefit (which I kinda think the OP question is about), I don't think there is a better way to spend a euromillions win, and 9-5 job free existence.
LukeBrown66 said:
Would never touch Carrera Cup, even if you were half decent, you might come up against a Tandy or someone starting out!!
But it uis a great series, well baked, and very professional in all its forms, but as a one make series it is rather expensive obviously
In the Porsche Supercup, they now have a “ProAm” category, for the keen gentleman racer who sold his business or won the lottery! But it uis a great series, well baked, and very professional in all its forms, but as a one make series it is rather expensive obviously
There’s a fair few single-seat refugees in that championship, youngersters with F3 experience looking for LM factory drives, that you really wouldn’t want to be directly racing against!
mat205125 said:
If I were to win the lottery tomorrow, and had the means, I'd rather be in a 911 Cup car, than in a BTCC car.
I think it would be one of the first things I'd push to do, as well as getting licence upgrades to race in Europe, and follow the Michael Fassbender route towards LeMans (youtube)
Completely agreed, would be living the dream with a snazzy race motorhome and doing as much PCC as I could.I think it would be one of the first things I'd push to do, as well as getting licence upgrades to race in Europe, and follow the Michael Fassbender route towards LeMans (youtube)
mat205125 said:
Unless you're looking for some return on investment in advertising benefit (which I kinda think the OP question is about), I don't think there is a better way to spend a euromillions win, and 9-5 job free existence.
It was more about watching a 20-car grid of some very expensive cars and wondering how they can be funded away from the usual trust-fund racers by more normal folks.On the same ticket are cars like the Ginettas which aren't bargain basement, but comparatively cheap to run for the same exposure.
Of course none of the lower series get you into the feeder series for Le Mans, or the Supercup and an F1 support series for example.
Krikkit said:
Me too, absolutely. I can see why Fassbender got his wallet out to get onto the grid at the 24h.
not sure that Fassbender got his wallet out, if anything I suspect he was paid as it was/is great PR for Porsche. The other drivers in the team have Porsche contracts, so I expect there were a meeting of minds.Edited by Krikkit on Monday 22 August 12:47
Fassbender is impressive though as he clearly wants it.
The problem is though that when guys who perhaps do Porsche Cup start wanting o progress as they usually do, they end up in GT3 or even worse WEC, where their total lack of ability shows.
This is the great truth of top level endurance racing away from factory teams, usually the team is paid for by a wannabe race driver like an Iribe who is competent but no way good enough to compete in a world championship, and it shows.
You cannot blame rich people trying to race at the highest level they can, but is surely better for them to employ better drivers and give the car a better chance! But hey you did not get where you were by being reasonable...
This is the great truth of top level endurance racing away from factory teams, usually the team is paid for by a wannabe race driver like an Iribe who is competent but no way good enough to compete in a world championship, and it shows.
You cannot blame rich people trying to race at the highest level they can, but is surely better for them to employ better drivers and give the car a better chance! But hey you did not get where you were by being reasonable...
LukeBrown66 said:
You cannot blame rich people trying to race at the highest level they can, but is surely better for them to employ better drivers and give the car a better chance! But hey you did not get where you were by being reasonable...
I'd imagine it's easy for the wealthy to become disaffected by the hoarde of self promoting 'up and comings', often accompanied by their slippery progenitors, clambering at their back pocket, taking all the glory while they hunt for the next bigger wallet to raid!Although perhaps I've become cynical in my middle age
LukeBrown66 said:
The problem is though that when guys who perhaps do Porsche Cup start wanting o progress as they usually do, they end up in GT3 or even worse WEC, where their total lack of ability shows.
This is the great truth of top level endurance racing away from factory teams, usually the team is paid for by a wannabe race driver like an Iribe who is competent but no way good enough to compete in a world championship, and it shows.
You cannot blame rich people trying to race at the highest level they can, but is surely better for them to employ better drivers and give the car a better chance! But hey you did not get where you were by being reasonable...
I feel like you've missed the whole concept of Gentleman drivers... The cars they pay to run give more drivers an opportunity than if they didn't bother.This is the great truth of top level endurance racing away from factory teams, usually the team is paid for by a wannabe race driver like an Iribe who is competent but no way good enough to compete in a world championship, and it shows.
You cannot blame rich people trying to race at the highest level they can, but is surely better for them to employ better drivers and give the car a better chance! But hey you did not get where you were by being reasonable...
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