New power unit regs approved - hello VW
Discussion
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breakin...
I think that was the final question mark over VW committing full force to F1 this time, ditching of the MGU-H exactly as they had desired back in 2012 for the initial F1 hybrid unit.
I'm personally glad to see that particular expensive and over complex bit of tech get the boot.
I think that was the final question mark over VW committing full force to F1 this time, ditching of the MGU-H exactly as they had desired back in 2012 for the initial F1 hybrid unit.
I'm personally glad to see that particular expensive and over complex bit of tech get the boot.
jsf said:
Cars are going to be even heavier with these new rules.
Yep, but the increased battery weight can go lower down then the outgoing MGU-H I assume? I think it's a given that at each PU regs shift we will see more reliance on electrification so I guess the weight will continue to pile on.Sandpit Steve said:
jsf said:
Cars are going to be even heavier with these new rules.
And go back to being well under 50% thermal efficiency from the fuel? Just stick a big battery on the side, and call the fuel ‘green’, and that makes it all okay. To be fair, most people don't think about it in any depth so I guess it's good the sport promotes 'green' to the masses. It's on message at least.
thegreenhell said:
VW are running out of excuses to not commit to F1, although I wouldn't be surprised if they find another one yet.
One hopes they do; their home isn't in F1 - they'll just be wasting their money. If Dr Ulrich was still at Audi Sport I doubt we would see them even contemplating F1. Sandpit Steve said:
And go back to being well under 50% thermal efficiency from the fuel? Just stick a big battery on the side, and call the fuel ‘green’, and that makes it all okay.
I regret that the MGU-H is going- it feels like a retrograde step. F1 has not done a good enough job of publicising the amazing thermal efficiency of the outgoing engines and now that is gone- the thermal efficiency of the new PUs will surely be lower? However the carbon neutral fuel is actually a very interesting and prescient area of innovation. Much more than a marketing job. This is actually quite an exciting opportunity for F1 and oil companies to precipitate meaningful developments which could make it out into the real world- something the MGU-H never really did.
I am pretty ambivalent towards the idea of additional PU manufacturers, I believe four for ten teams is plenty. I don't see why F1 felt the need to make such concessions towards VAG. However if this paves the way for more teams(?) then that is obviously great. The problem is that even with Porsche and one other VAG brand joining in, it seems like we will still be stuck at ten teams. This is one of the main things which I'd like to see the sport change. I don't really want to see small teams gentrified by major manufacturer money. I want to see 24-26 car grids with the budget cap enabling racing teams such as Sauber and Williams to mix it with major manufacturers.
It actually looks a bit like F1 has bungled it if we don't end up with additional teams. With this and their coldness towards Andretti, it is really as if they've decided that ten teams is their number.
Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 17th August 11:52
HustleRussell said:
I regret that the MGU-H is going- it feels like a retrograde step. F1 has not done a good enough job of publicising the amazing thermal efficiency of the outgoing engines and now that is gone- the thermal efficiency of the new PUs will surely be lower?
However the carbon neutral fuel is actually a very interesting and prescient area of innovation. Much more than a marketing job. This is actually quite an exciting opportunity for F1 and oil companies to precipitate meaningful developments which could make it out into the real world- something the MGU-H never really did.
I am pretty ambivalent towards the idea of additional PU manufacturers, I believe four for ten teams is plenty. I don't see why F1 felt the need to make such concessions towards VAG. However if this paves the way for more teams(?) then that is obviously great. The problem is that even with Porsche and one other VAG brand joining in, it seems like we will still be stuck at ten teams. This is one of the main things which I'd like to see the sport change. I don't really want to see small teams gentrified by major manufacturer money. I want to see 24-26 car grids with the budget cap enabling racing teams such as Sauber and Williams to mix it with major manufacturers.
It actually looks a bit like F1 has bungled it if we don't end up with additional teams. With this and their coldness towards Andretti, it is really as if they've decided that ten teams is their number.
QAnon just mentioned that 10 teams are easier to manipulate to create the drama. Going to the back of a 26 car grid at the start or during a race would cause manipulation mayhem! However the carbon neutral fuel is actually a very interesting and prescient area of innovation. Much more than a marketing job. This is actually quite an exciting opportunity for F1 and oil companies to precipitate meaningful developments which could make it out into the real world- something the MGU-H never really did.
I am pretty ambivalent towards the idea of additional PU manufacturers, I believe four for ten teams is plenty. I don't see why F1 felt the need to make such concessions towards VAG. However if this paves the way for more teams(?) then that is obviously great. The problem is that even with Porsche and one other VAG brand joining in, it seems like we will still be stuck at ten teams. This is one of the main things which I'd like to see the sport change. I don't really want to see small teams gentrified by major manufacturer money. I want to see 24-26 car grids with the budget cap enabling racing teams such as Sauber and Williams to mix it with major manufacturers.
It actually looks a bit like F1 has bungled it if we don't end up with additional teams. With this and their coldness towards Andretti, it is really as if they've decided that ten teams is their number.
Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 17th August 11:52
jsf said:
Andretti would be a disaster IMHO. They would really need a tie in with a current team for design and manufacture and thats not allowed after TR took the piss with the red bull designed cars.
If the regulations remain stable, can we not allow new teams to buy last year’s car from an existing team, for say three years as they set up to design their own? With the close field and fast development we have now, almost any car from this year will be close to the back next year.
jsf said:
With the loss of MGU-H I'm not sure how they expect to charge enough to take advantage of the extra capacity.
We could see the hilarious situation of 1000bhp car passing a 500bhp car.
Without a high charge rate these cars are going to be slow in race trim compared to qualy.
Perhaps they're going to have the engines run constantly at 100% and just use energy harvesting as a 'throttle' to despserately try and get enough energy into the batteries We could see the hilarious situation of 1000bhp car passing a 500bhp car.
Without a high charge rate these cars are going to be slow in race trim compared to qualy.
With such a high electric output, it seems like the regulations are making it significantly more about how much energy can be collected back, so ultimately a more efficient overall package even if the engines themselves are seemingly going to be less efficient
I've heard rumours that they might want to add front axle regen to increase charging capacity. This all adds extra weight and complexity.
Have they announced the minimum vehicle weights for the 2026 cars yet? I expect it will be substantially higher than current, which are already overweight. They might need to keep the current ICE power level in addition to the extra MGU-K power just to keep the same power to weight ratio as the current cars.
Have they announced the minimum vehicle weights for the 2026 cars yet? I expect it will be substantially higher than current, which are already overweight. They might need to keep the current ICE power level in addition to the extra MGU-K power just to keep the same power to weight ratio as the current cars.
jsf said:
With the loss of MGU-H I'm not sure how they expect to charge enough to take advantage of the extra capacity.
We could see the hilarious situation of 1000bhp car passing a 500bhp car.
Without a high charge rate these cars are going to be slow in race trim compared to qualy.
It's a shame the above chart doesn't state the battery capacity, anyone know?We could see the hilarious situation of 1000bhp car passing a 500bhp car.
Without a high charge rate these cars are going to be slow in race trim compared to qualy.
It does seem bizarre that an F1 car with roughly 500bhp on IC side is expected to run a race, which basically uses all that power plus extra quite often, and somehow manage to charge the cells with nothing but regen.
Unless the plan is to have a substantial increase in electrical capacity and start the race with a fully charged cell pack. Not that it would last long but could average out at an extra 100hp per lap I guess. I note the weight has increased despite the loss of MGU-H, which combined with the higher electric power output suggests a significant increase in the cell pack.
Still doesn't really stack up though.
TheDeuce said:
It does seem bizarre that an F1 car with roughly 500bhp on IC side is expected to run a race, which basically uses all that power plus extra quite often, and somehow manage to charge the cells with nothing but regen.
I've got it! They're going to run all the races downhill.... SturdyHSV said:
TheDeuce said:
It does seem bizarre that an F1 car with roughly 500bhp on IC side is expected to run a race, which basically uses all that power plus extra quite often, and somehow manage to charge the cells with nothing but regen.
I've got it! They're going to run all the races downhill.... 
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