Do companies have a legal right to refuse Standing Orders?

[Blackpuddin]

Only asking here because Google is not giving the answer.
Energy companies routinely refuse to accept SOs as it deprives them of the ability to use DDs to strip money out of your account without asking (as SSE has done to us, with no notification, which I'm fairly sure is illegal).
Thanks in advance for any useful input.

[Countdown]

If you've signed up to a tariff which requires DD then you have to pay them by DD.

[dazmanultra]

I think a company can accept or not accept any form of payment it chooses.

[Simpo Two]

Shell Energy accept SOs. When they got my bill catastrophically wrong and were poised to take £930pcm - yep £930 - I knew it would never be sorted out in time. So I rang my bank, stopped the DD and set up an SO instead (payment details are on the invoices) to keep them vaguely happy while they sort out the mess.

[Panamax]

dazmanultra said:

I think a company can accept or not accept any form of payment it chooses.

That seems to be the case and I see more and more shops/pubs operating on a "card only" basis. Although notes and coins are "legal tender" there's no obligation on anyone to accept them. Cards, cheques and contactless aren't legal tender but it makes no difference in the real world.

What a business can't do is offer discount for paying in cash instead of by card. (Or add a charge for paying by card.)

With DD there's no card involved so companies can offer discount for payment by DD - which many do, including energy suppliers.

What gets up my shirt is when energy suppliers force you into DD to get the discount and then make you pay in advance as a result of the way they calculate monthly payments.

[RizzoTheRat]

"Legal Tender" doesn't really mean what a lot of people think it does.

If you have an outstanding debt and you offer to pay in a "legal tender", they haven't got a leg to stand on if they refuse. However they can refuse whatever payment method they like for something they haven't given you yet.

There's even limits as to how much cash counts as legal tender, so they could refuse to accept you paying a £500 debt in 1p coins for example.

[Blackpuddin]

Panamax said:

dazmanultra said:

I think a company can accept or not accept any form of payment it chooses.

That seems to be the case and I see more and more shops/pubs operating on a "card only" basis. Although notes and coins are "legal tender" there's no obligation on anyone to accept them. Cards, cheques and contactless aren't legal tender but it makes no difference in the real world.

What a business can't do is offer discount for paying in cash instead of by card. (Or add a charge for paying by card.)

With DD there's no card involved so companies can offer discount for payment by DD - which many do, including energy suppliers.

What gets up my shirt is when energy suppliers force you into DD to get the discount and then make you pay in advance as a result of the way they calculate monthly payments.

It's hard to see the difference between this advance payment thing that somehow seems to have gained traction and giving energy companies interest-free loans.
At some point very soon future energy companies are going to have to make a decision regarding the millions of customers who won't be able to pay their bills: either cut them off or let them off. If they go for option one there'll be trouble on the streets.

Edited by Blackpuddin on Tuesday 16th August 14:37

[Blackpuddin]

RizzoTheRat said:

they can refuse whatever payment method they like for something they haven't given you yet

That's the double whammy. Who gets the money if people in fuel credit as a result of this process die?

[Panamax]

Blackpuddin said:

It's hard to see the difference between this advance payment thing that somehow seems to have gained traction and giving energy companies interest-free loans.

Yup, it's pretty outrageous. And under current conditions the energy companies will be in a bind because they've not had the opportunity to push up DDs to the level they'd really like to have them and it's only when customers drop towards negative balance that the impact will be felt, in the form of sudden doubling of monthly payments. It's going to be a bumpy ride for a lot of people.

One interesting point I heard reported is that as soon as people miss a DD, which they will, their credit rating goes down the tubes. I guess that's the reality of this debt-ridden society.

[Simpo Two]

Blackpuddin said:

That's the double whammy. Who gets the money if people in fuel credit as a result of this process die?

The executors should sort it out and get it recovered to the Estate.

[vaud]

Panamax said:

One interesting point I heard reported is that as soon as people miss a DD, which they will, their credit rating goes down the tubes. I guess that's the reality of this debt-ridden society.

One missed DD will not significantly impact a credit rating, and certainly not your hyperbolic "down the tubes"

[anonymous-user]

Panamax said:

dazmanultra said:

I think a company can accept or not accept any form of payment it chooses.

What a business can't do is offer discount for paying in cash instead of by card. (Or add a charge for paying by card.)

If only the DVLA/Gov were a business eh so they didn't stick an extra £2.50 a go free on for using a business credit card online or at the post office counter to tax vehicles.

[DanL]

If your energy company change your DD without telling you, change companies. EDF have always been transparent with me, and I can change my DD amount myself online.

[Southerner]

On a related note, is it legal for an energy/utilities company to 'cut you off'? I was always under the impression that they weren't allowed to withdraw person's water or power, but that may be utter nonsense?!

[DanL]

Southerner said:

On a related note, is it legal for an energy/utilities company to 'cut you off'? I was always under the impression that they weren't allowed to withdraw person's water or power, but that may be utter nonsense?!

Water - no.

Power - maybe.
https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-librar...
See the “last resort” section on the link above.

[Blackpuddin]

DanL said:

If your energy company change your DD without telling you, change companies. EDF have always been transparent with me, and I can change my DD amount myself online.

Pretty sure SSE/OVO don't allow that! By how much can you change it?

[DanL]

Blackpuddin said:

DanL said:

If your energy company change your DD without telling you, change companies. EDF have always been transparent with me, and I can change my DD amount myself online.

Pretty sure SSE/OVO don't allow that! By how much can you change it?

I’m not aware there’s a limit. However, now I think about it it’s a “request” to change the DD amount rather than something that automatically goes through.

I’ve never had a problem, but I’ve always set mine to be in or around 1/12th of my total anticipated bill. I’m not sure what happens if you try to set it much lower than that, for example. I have set it both higher and lower than the amounts they’ve recommended in the past without issue.

[Blackpuddin]

DanL said:

Blackpuddin said:

DanL said:

If your energy company change your DD without telling you, change companies. EDF have always been transparent with me, and I can change my DD amount myself online.

Pretty sure SSE/OVO don't allow that! By how much can you change it?

I’m not aware there’s a limit. However, now I think about it it’s a “request” to change the DD amount rather than something that automatically goes through.

I’ve never had a problem, but I’ve always set mine to be in or around 1/12th of my total anticipated bill. I’m not sure what happens if you try to set it much lower than that, for example. I have set it both higher and lower than the amounts they’ve recommended in the past without issue.

Mine's been set at 1/8th of the estimated bill, which will certainly be lower than SSE think as we have made usage cuts. Trying to contact them is proving v difficult as their website is usually broken and they never respond to messages sent to their official contacts.

[Panamax]

DanL said:

I’ve never had a problem, but I’ve always set mine to be in or around 1/12th of my total anticipated bill.

Something I've wondered is whether they're happy with 1/12 if you set it in April but a whole lot less happy if you set it in November! Mine always seem to want a big credit balance built up before the start of winter.

[Panamax]

vaud said:

One missed DD will not significantly impact a credit rating, and certainly not your hyperbolic "down the tubes"

"On-time payments are the biggest factor affecting your credit score, so missing a payment can sting. If you have otherwise spotless credit, a payment that's more than 30 days past due can knock as many as 100 points off your credit score. If your score is already low, it won't hurt it as much but will still do damage."

"Some people assume that missing the odd payment or paying a few days late won’t make a difference as long as they manage their debt well most of the time. Unfortunately, this isn’t true. Even one or two late or missed payments can affect your credit score. By making sure all your debts are paid on time and in full, you can regain lenders’ trust and boost your chances of getting loans in the future."