Weird fault after 2 new tyres

[AndyC722]

I hope that someone can help or has had a similar experience.

We've had our Honda HRV for 3 years (April 2019) and it's been fault free as you'd expect but at 20,000 miles I decided to get the front tyres changed because they were around 2mm. As usual, and with all the other cars we've ever owned I went to National Tyres locally as they're efficient and I have never had a problem. The OE tyres were Michelin Primacy and I opted for Avon ZV7s, exactly the same tyre size (215/55 R17). The tracking was just fine before I went and the wheels unmarked as we've never kerbed it, it gets well looked after by me.

I paid just for the tyres (no tracking as it was spot on) and I then drove off afterwards, but immediately I noticed that the steering wheel was off centre by about 15-20 degrees to the left, so I took it back and they were puzzled, never happened before etc (and neither had I ever experienced this changing tyres for different brands and on different makes (Audi/BMW/Honda) over 30 years). So after some discussion, they said it must be the tracking, so they clamped the wheel centrally and checked it, just a tiny bit out.

I drove off and guess what, exactly the same.

So, the next discussion was around the tyres, maybe faulty, they ordered new ones in (ZV7s again although I thought we should swap for Michelins like the rears) and guess what, they swapped them yesterday and it's exactly the same.

Looking at the internet, I have seen cases exactly like this on different cars, steering wheel immediately off, ply steer? One I saw, guy took in loose wheels and having this same issue so no chance that garage messed with tracking.

Any ideas?

Thanks



Andy

[Polly Grigora]

AndyC722 said:

just a tiny bit out.

Get the old tyres back on. Is it good now?

I would want to know what a tiny bit out is

[steveo3002]

have a good look around it , have they jacked on something they shouldnt have and bent it , has a spring become unseated and now out of its seat?

both tyres exactly same size ?

[AndyC722]

Thanks guys
I don't have the old tyres, they disposed of them I guess, I'd be surprised if they had been so rough with it that they dislodged a spring or jacked it up so badly that they damaged a suspension component, but I will take a look.

I have always been to this NT outlet last 20 years, never had an issue. I have however done some research on the internet where people had tyres fitted and it was a fault with the tyre itself (mind you they have now fitted 2 sets and still the same and they have checked the tracking aswell...

[AndyC722]

Sorry, didn't answer the questions you asked, "tiny bit out", I can't say but he said it was very close to spec and made no difference to the steering wheel position. Yes the new tyres are exactly the same size as OE 215/55/R17

[Dave.]

Have you tried swapping the wheels left to right and/or front to back?

[AndyC722]

After new tyres first fitted and fault appeared they did swap the wheels across on the front axle (the new tyres) and it was just the same. I haven't asked them to swap front to back as yet (rears are original Primacy with about 3-4 mm left). I think I did suggest that last week and NT said it wouldn't make a difference (extra work for them too..)

[Funky Squirrel]

My money is a bent steering or suspension component from jacking the car. Nothing else would give a 20 degree offset on the wheel short of a missing tyre.

[Dave.]

If this....

AndyC722 said:

After new tyres first fitted and fault appeared they did swap the wheels across on the front axle (the new tyres) and it was just the same. I haven't asked them to swap front to back as yet (rears are original Primacy with about 3-4 mm left). I think I did suggest that last week and NT said it wouldn't make a difference (extra work for them too..)

Then this....

Funky Squirrel said:

My money is a bent steering or suspension component from jacking the car. Nothing else would give a 20 degree offset on the wheel short of a missing tyre.

[AndyC722]

Latest update - spoke with National Tyres Head office, they were helpful, listened and were keen to help. They have now made the matter into a formal complaint and their regional manager will get involved. Before that, I put it to the head office customer service chap I spoke to that the centre might have jacked it up and damaged the suspension components (say track rod) but he checked with them and they said they absolutely don't do things like that, they know their stuff, use jacking points etc. I am inclined to believe them.

Anyway, their suggestion is that they think it might indeed be a tyre manufacturing defect (both sets from same batch possibly) and would propose a different tyre brand is fitted (I would say Michelin Primacy to match the rears).

This has been going on since 21-Jul so I am keen to get this resolved, things like this are so time-consuming but I will get a result

[SlimJim16v]

Maybe there's a fault that your tyres wore to compensate for. I think you need a proper 4 wheel alignment.

[AndyC722]

The thing is, why did this only happen after the two front tyres were fitted, the tracking/steering wheel was spot on when I went in and they didn't do the tracking then, only after I complained about the steering wheel being out of alignment after fitting the first set?

[GreenV8S]

I didn't notice you mentioning tyre pressures. That can affect steering.

[Peanut Gallery]

Very old experience my dad had here. Had 2 new fronts put on, car pulled to the side, swopped the fronts over, pulled to the other side.
Pressures were the same.

After a while he found that the rim was slightly lower on that side, and found the sidewall on that tyre was softer than the other.

For the rest of that tyres life we had to run 32 psi one tyre, 28psi or so on the other side, worked fine then!

[AndyC722]

Regarding tyre pressures, when it came out of National Tyres after the first set were fitted, I went home and thought that maybe the tyre pressures were causing it so I checked them, they were way overinflated (say 39-40 psi vs spec of 32 psi so checked every tyre and back to spec when cold (32F 30R) but it made no difference. I had a reply to my post from the Honda HRV forums where this tyre fitter said he had particular issues with Avon and needed to set tracking different to manufacturer spec to cope with their characteristics. He also asked me to check the date of manufacture. I did but can't see a date per see, it must be a code?The last comment about same fault was interesting and maybe softer sidewall although they did swap the tyres across after first set fitted and it made no difference. I have read about something called "ply steer" which is a unique characteristic of some tyres which causes the off centre steering wheel.

[Dave.]

It's a 4 digit date code, the first two digits are the week number, second two digits are the year.

Also check the they says "outside" on the outside on the tyres.

[AndyC722]

There's a code on both tyres DOT U33R AJ2 2222 and the word "OUTER" is on the outside of both tyres

[Peanut Gallery]

The date of a tyre is a 4 numbers in an oval - the first two numbers are the week, the second 2 are the year - so the tyres made today will be (3222) (excuse the formatting, change the brackets to a complete enclosing oval)

[CoolHands]

Note to self, avoid Avon tyres

[AndyC722]

Thanks all, each group of letters numbers above is separated and in a sort of running track shape (longer and straighter sides than an oval if you see what I mean) so the 2222 might mean week 22 of 2022?