"you've spent how much restoring it"?
Discussion
Sadly I've stopped counting at £130K on my 1966 Series 1 e type 2+2.
I opted for the 2+2 as it was cheaper ( than FHC or OTS ) but I could fit in it.
I've been ripped off by a well known restorer and taken some wrong decisions, I know I'll never get my money back, neither would I wish to do so, but economics went out the window after some 2 years and £30K, by then it's too late to turn back.
As my woe was starting I bumped into a young man at a customer who briefed me on his US 60's muscle car. He too got ripped off to the tune of £20K - engine and gearbox "went missing" never to be seen again. Even my accountant has lost track of his restoration of his Sunbeam Alpine, if it can happen to him it can happen to anybody.
I guess from the outset, being unable to flag up bad practices and "name names" makes it a lottery from the start....?
I opted for the 2+2 as it was cheaper ( than FHC or OTS ) but I could fit in it.
I've been ripped off by a well known restorer and taken some wrong decisions, I know I'll never get my money back, neither would I wish to do so, but economics went out the window after some 2 years and £30K, by then it's too late to turn back.
As my woe was starting I bumped into a young man at a customer who briefed me on his US 60's muscle car. He too got ripped off to the tune of £20K - engine and gearbox "went missing" never to be seen again. Even my accountant has lost track of his restoration of his Sunbeam Alpine, if it can happen to him it can happen to anybody.
I guess from the outset, being unable to flag up bad practices and "name names" makes it a lottery from the start....?
Lord Pork, just last week I bought a Jaguar XJ6 Series 3. I've wanted one for years but never did anything about it. The car is very clean and has been well looked after, although at 109K miles I know mechanical work in particular will be required.
Do you have any advice based on your experience in terms of identifying the "good ones" who will help to look after the car, and avoid the dodgy ones?
Do you have any advice based on your experience in terms of identifying the "good ones" who will help to look after the car, and avoid the dodgy ones?
That's quite a figure there and you should probably now stop counting and just make the most of using the car as much as possible - assuming it's finished now of course.
I had something similar, although far less money, when I decided that my Capri needed a bit of TLC.
After owning it for 10 years and spending very little on it other than servicing and a set of tyres, I decided that it needed some bodywork and a few tweaks to keep it going. Initial budget (in my naive head) was £2-3K which soon grew to £6.5K after some more realistic quotes. Once I'd found a specialist to do the work we'd agreed on the work to be done and budget was now around £11K. Once the work started and the car came apart it was of course worse than anyone had thought and we had gone so far it was either give up and scrap it, or keep going and get it finished.
I decided to get the gearbox rebuilt while it was out, new clutch, fuel pump, accumulator and front suspension re-build with poly-bushes and by the time it was done the total bill was over £18K for a car that's probably worth £12-15 on a good day.
None of that included any engine work, exterior paint (all the bodywork was structural) rear axle, brakes or interior which are all fine, but of course will need some work over the coming years. Actually, when you think about it, £18K over 14 years is very reasonable and I do love driving the car.
Very few of us have classics because we are sensible people and I have come to accept that being rational about the money invested into rusty old heaps is pointless. It's a passion and an addiction and a bit like gambling - never bet more than you can afford to lose!
Well done for sticking to it though and keeping another old classic on the road.
BlueJ said:
Lord Pork, just last week I bought a Jaguar XJ6 Series 3. I've wanted one for years but never did anything about it. The car is very clean and has been well looked after, although at 109K miles I know mechanical work in particular will be required.
Do you have any advice based on your experience in terms of identifying the "good ones" who will help to look after the car, and avoid the dodgy ones?
Have a look at Harry's garage on YT, he has an XJ6 Coupe and has recently had a lot of work done to both Engine and bodywork, the garage he used seems to be quite reputable and the final costs for the work he had done didn't seem overly expensive. Do you have any advice based on your experience in terms of identifying the "good ones" who will help to look after the car, and avoid the dodgy ones?
Bear in mind that if you are paying someone else to do all the work, you will never recoup your costs, I appreciate that this is never really the aim for restorations, but if there are time consuming things that you can do yourself that can reduce the costs and it also means that you can build a bond with the car and get invested in it in a way that provides much more satisfaction than just throwing money at it.
Olivergt said:
Have a look at Harry's garage on YT, he has an XJ6 Coupe and has recently had a lot of work done to both Engine and bodywork, the garage he used seems to be quite reputable and the final costs for the work he had done didn't seem overly expensive.
Bear in mind that if you are paying someone else to do all the work, you will never recoup your costs, I appreciate that this is never really the aim for restorations, but if there are time consuming things that you can do yourself that can reduce the costs and it also means that you can build a bond with the car and get invested in it in a way that provides much more satisfaction than just throwing money at it.
Thanks. I agree that costs will never be recouped but I don't see this as a profit centre - quite the opposite unfortunately!!Bear in mind that if you are paying someone else to do all the work, you will never recoup your costs, I appreciate that this is never really the aim for restorations, but if there are time consuming things that you can do yourself that can reduce the costs and it also means that you can build a bond with the car and get invested in it in a way that provides much more satisfaction than just throwing money at it.
Car restoration is an expensive exercise and I sincerely doubt if anyone truly knows the cost of what it took to restore their car. Most people never admit the true cost to themselves, much like with racing cars.
I think many have a yearly budget in mind of X and they keep spending X each year until the car is done.
Working in motorsport on the official side, I get to hear stories of budgets for cars, and can’t quite believe them.
One of the championship organisers says many men tell him to send all the paperwork through to their business addresses as they don’t want their wives to find out the true cost. I met someone who’s ex-husband was racing in the Porsche Cup. She found out how much his budget was, and there were serious words spoken, so much so, that’s how he became the ex…
I’ve heard the exact same tale with car restorations.
I think many have a yearly budget in mind of X and they keep spending X each year until the car is done.
Working in motorsport on the official side, I get to hear stories of budgets for cars, and can’t quite believe them.
One of the championship organisers says many men tell him to send all the paperwork through to their business addresses as they don’t want their wives to find out the true cost. I met someone who’s ex-husband was racing in the Porsche Cup. She found out how much his budget was, and there were serious words spoken, so much so, that’s how he became the ex…
I’ve heard the exact same tale with car restorations.
j4r4lly said:
That's quite a figure there and you should probably now stop counting and just make the most of using the car as much as possible - assuming it's finished now of course.
I had something similar, although far less money, when I decided that my Capri needed a bit of TLC.
After owning it for 10 years and spending very little on it other than servicing and a set of tyres, I decided that it needed some bodywork and a few tweaks to keep it going. Initial budget (in my naive head) was £2-3K which soon grew to £6.5K after some more realistic quotes. Once I'd found a specialist to do the work we'd agreed on the work to be done and budget was now around £11K. Once the work started and the car came apart it was of course worse than anyone had thought and we had gone so far it was either give up and scrap it, or keep going and get it finished.
I decided to get the gearbox rebuilt while it was out, new clutch, fuel pump, accumulator and front suspension re-build with poly-bushes and by the time it was done the total bill was over £18K for a car that's probably worth £12-15 on a good day.
None of that included any engine work, exterior paint (all the bodywork was structural) rear axle, brakes or interior which are all fine, but of course will need some work over the coming years. Actually, when you think about it, £18K over 14 years is very reasonable and I do love driving the car.
Very few of us have classics because we are sensible people and I have come to accept that being rational about the money invested into rusty old heaps is pointless. It's a passion and an addiction and a bit like gambling - never bet more than you can afford to lose!
Well done for sticking to it though and keeping another old classic on the road.
Alternatively, you could have spent the £18k on a new car which in 7-8 years would be virtually worthless. Look after your Capri and it won't depreciate like this.I had something similar, although far less money, when I decided that my Capri needed a bit of TLC.
After owning it for 10 years and spending very little on it other than servicing and a set of tyres, I decided that it needed some bodywork and a few tweaks to keep it going. Initial budget (in my naive head) was £2-3K which soon grew to £6.5K after some more realistic quotes. Once I'd found a specialist to do the work we'd agreed on the work to be done and budget was now around £11K. Once the work started and the car came apart it was of course worse than anyone had thought and we had gone so far it was either give up and scrap it, or keep going and get it finished.
I decided to get the gearbox rebuilt while it was out, new clutch, fuel pump, accumulator and front suspension re-build with poly-bushes and by the time it was done the total bill was over £18K for a car that's probably worth £12-15 on a good day.
None of that included any engine work, exterior paint (all the bodywork was structural) rear axle, brakes or interior which are all fine, but of course will need some work over the coming years. Actually, when you think about it, £18K over 14 years is very reasonable and I do love driving the car.
Very few of us have classics because we are sensible people and I have come to accept that being rational about the money invested into rusty old heaps is pointless. It's a passion and an addiction and a bit like gambling - never bet more than you can afford to lose!
Well done for sticking to it though and keeping another old classic on the road.
Money well spent then ?
Thanks for support and commiserations, both needed !!
BlueJ asked the question how to avoid the pitfalls,
if I had my time again I'd definitely progress the following
get advice/support/recommendations from the local car club,
join one for your marque if you haven't already done so
most local clubs will have members who've used local companies and had good experiences
set up some kind of cost plan, payment plan, whats expected, rough costings
as has been mentioned here, buying a car as a project, no matter how small will involve major expenditure / more than you expect, budget accordingly
I got my engine back from Classic & Modern Engine Services of Bracknell who did a wonderful job. Problem is/was once returned the engine was better than new - there was no way that was going back in the engine bay and having my reconditioned radiator, re-sprayed header tank and tatty ancillaries.
In short, I've bought a new car......
critical to all this is to have a financial plan to sell various assets without - in my case Lady Pork, - knowing.
onward and downward.....
Lord Pork said:
if I had my time again I'd definitely progress the following
get advice/support/recommendations from the local car club,
join one for your marque if you haven't already done so
most local clubs will have members who've used local companies and had good experiences
set up some kind of cost plan, payment plan, whats expected, rough costings
....
Cheers.get advice/support/recommendations from the local car club,
join one for your marque if you haven't already done so
most local clubs will have members who've used local companies and had good experiences
set up some kind of cost plan, payment plan, whats expected, rough costings
....
I bought a Series 2 2 plus 2 about 8 years ago as it was the only model I could afford, as they are considered the “entry level” to e type ownership. They lose some of the sleekness of the coupe version due to the height and angle of the windscreen to accommodate the rear seats. Having said that, they are extremely practical with the extra luggage space. I don’t think my car would ever be worth more than £65,000, with the Series 1 being worth slightly more due to the front and rear light details. However, to most people, an e type is an e type and they are not aware of the different variants that were produced.
So obviously £130,000 of restoration costs makes no financial sense but I can understand how you can get drawn into that trap. I do hope that eventually you will come to enjoy the car and forget how much you have spent.
So obviously £130,000 of restoration costs makes no financial sense but I can understand how you can get drawn into that trap. I do hope that eventually you will come to enjoy the car and forget how much you have spent.
BlueJ said:
Do you have any advice based on your experience in terms of identifying the "good ones" who will help to look after the car, and avoid the dodgy ones?
Ken Jenkins near Worksop is a superb old boy. He's ex main dealer from when Mark II's were a thing and he does some really nice work. I don't think he gets involved in full restorations as such though. From my time with old Jaguars, I soon heard all the horror stories and learned who all the (many) crooks were - some big names in the Jaguar scene were proper wrong 'uns.
Edited by Touring442 on Wednesday 3rd August 17:08
It's often said to be better value buying an expensive but fully restored car than buying one that "needs a bit of work".
The only time I owned a classic I bought one that was "just good enough to buy and use", kept it well maintained and avoided rain/salt whenever possible. Fortunately it worked out a happy experience over a couple of years enjoyment.
The cash that can be spent on "restoration" never ceases to amaze. Even a decent respray on almost anything seems to command a minimum price of £5k and it's up hill from there. And that's before the rust word gets mentioned. Mechanical issues generally seem much easier/cheaper to fix than body or interior.
The only time I owned a classic I bought one that was "just good enough to buy and use", kept it well maintained and avoided rain/salt whenever possible. Fortunately it worked out a happy experience over a couple of years enjoyment.
The cash that can be spent on "restoration" never ceases to amaze. Even a decent respray on almost anything seems to command a minimum price of £5k and it's up hill from there. And that's before the rust word gets mentioned. Mechanical issues generally seem much easier/cheaper to fix than body or interior.
I sent my 205 pug away for 3-6 months. 3 yrs later and about £30k in costs I had to take it back by force and unfinished. Lots of expensive parts went missing, billed for stuff that never arrived and it seems I was in a big queue of other injured parties so I eased the situation by taking some motorcycles instead of cash in partial refund. I am massively out of pocket but at least free of the prick apart from the memories when I work on the car myself to finish it. It is a minefield out there and we should be able to name and shame.
My car was stuck in Grimsby about 4 hrs from my house and very locked away with menacing threats.
My car was stuck in Grimsby about 4 hrs from my house and very locked away with menacing threats.
yes, Caddyshack, mine was a couple of hours away too.
why did I do it?
I outlined to the local trading standards office regarding both the deception and fraud faced by me. Heard nothing back so obviously not interested. I happen to know of two other parties who were similarly aggrieved and were pursuing both legally and physically !!
I know of similar continual instances, can't say too much as it'll become obvious who "they" are....but once you've lost your money the pitfall signs are obvious aren't they.
GGGGggggrrrrr
Problem is, anyone that quotes for work such as this (even a simple paint job) cannot be relied upon. It’s impossible to know the cost until the car is stripped and then the whole story is told. Unless it’s a given that it’s totally rotten and they’re quoting for everything new
Any Etype is going to cost 150k to totally restore by a specialist.
Any Etype is going to cost 150k to totally restore by a specialist.
I do some work for a guy that has an extensive collection of classic cars… multiple etypes, inc an external bonnet latch and a couple of flat floors, multiple Astons, inc. DB4/5/6 in both coupe and volante, Ferrari 275GTS & GTB… he has over 50 cars.
He has a guy in Poland that does all his restorations. The quality of work is outstanding.
He has a guy in Poland that does all his restorations. The quality of work is outstanding.
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