What takes a car from comfy/sloppy/unpredictable handling
Discussion
To a sporty feeling hot hatch/sports car. I.e. A normal 1/2/3 series bmw to a proper m car.
What are the general differences that make it feel that much better?
In a quest to make my M140i handle as close to an M car as possible im looking at every option available and trying to make the right choice, im deep down the rabbit hole of modifying it already and its VASTLY better than it was stock and ive got another few k to spend before i stop (have a total budget in mind), the jump to an M car now isent justified financially. This will probably be my last petrol car.
Already has stiffer springs and better dampers and LSD.
Looking at doing:
Polybush both front control arms.
Replace all subframe bushes with polybushes (not the diff to help keep NVH to a minimum).
Camber plates (street version) on the front to add some negative camber.
Anti roll bars front and rear.
Then a good alignment afterwards.
Anything else im not thinking about/should consider?
Dont want anything that will make it unbearable to drive, more like an m car, a bit extra NVH but not ridiculous.
What are the general differences that make it feel that much better?
In a quest to make my M140i handle as close to an M car as possible im looking at every option available and trying to make the right choice, im deep down the rabbit hole of modifying it already and its VASTLY better than it was stock and ive got another few k to spend before i stop (have a total budget in mind), the jump to an M car now isent justified financially. This will probably be my last petrol car.
Already has stiffer springs and better dampers and LSD.
Looking at doing:
Polybush both front control arms.
Replace all subframe bushes with polybushes (not the diff to help keep NVH to a minimum).
Camber plates (street version) on the front to add some negative camber.
Anti roll bars front and rear.
Then a good alignment afterwards.
Anything else im not thinking about/should consider?
Dont want anything that will make it unbearable to drive, more like an m car, a bit extra NVH but not ridiculous.
In the absence of a time machine allowing you to go back to before you spent several grand on your current car and simply trading it in for car you actually want. Your best bet is probably to not spend any additional thousands of pounds on it and instead revert it to stock, sell the mod parts on eBay and then trade it in for the car you actually want.
KaraK said:
In the absence of a time machine allowing you to go back to before you spent several grand on your current car and simply trading it in for car you actually want. Your best bet is probably to not spend any additional thousands of pounds on it and instead revert it to stock, sell the mod parts on eBay and then trade it in for the car you actually want.
Im quite happy with the route ive taken and im going down thank you.The practicality of the car is a bonus aswell (5 door).
If it was me, I would be speaking to these people:
https://www.birdsauto.com/category/tags/bmw-suspen...
They have a great reputation for transforming BMW suspension to something much better.
Just remember that ita ll has to work together to be really good, no point having the "best" bushes and the "best" dampers and the "best" springs unless they are all designed to work in harmony with each other.
https://www.birdsauto.com/category/tags/bmw-suspen...
They have a great reputation for transforming BMW suspension to something much better.
Just remember that ita ll has to work together to be really good, no point having the "best" bushes and the "best" dampers and the "best" springs unless they are all designed to work in harmony with each other.
Olivergt said:
If it was me, I would be speaking to these people:
https://www.birdsauto.com/category/tags/bmw-suspen...
They have a great reputation for transforming BMW suspension to something much better.
Just remember that ita ll has to work together to be really good, no point having the "best" bushes and the "best" dampers and the "best" springs unless they are all designed to work in harmony with each other.
Suspension is already changed and im happy with it, looking at the next thing now, thank you.https://www.birdsauto.com/category/tags/bmw-suspen...
They have a great reputation for transforming BMW suspension to something much better.
Just remember that ita ll has to work together to be really good, no point having the "best" bushes and the "best" dampers and the "best" springs unless they are all designed to work in harmony with each other.
Stiffness if you're trying to do it cheaply.
Properly then things like quality of damping come into it, e-diffs, chassis stiffening over and above bunging a strut brace on it etc etc. Have a look what Toyota did to the bodyshell of the Yaris to make the GR Yaris.
You'd be better off selling and buying what you want.
Properly then things like quality of damping come into it, e-diffs, chassis stiffening over and above bunging a strut brace on it etc etc. Have a look what Toyota did to the bodyshell of the Yaris to make the GR Yaris.
You'd be better off selling and buying what you want.
inline6bmwfan said:
Suspension is already changed and im happy with it, looking at the next thing now, thank you.
You mentioned poly bushes and anti-roll bars, that's all part of the suspension to me.Anyway.
Are you still on run-flats? if you are then a decent set of tyres can transform the handling and the feel of the car.
Also, have you looked at lighter wheels? Anything you can do to reduce unsprung weight will help.
mk1coopers said:
Strut braces (if it hasn't already got them) could help
This. But also consider further bracing depending on the model, you may be surprised what is available.Then there's the case of weight. Reducing the weight overall, lowering the centre of gravity and reducing unsprung weight.
Front and rear strut braces will give you tighter and more predictable handling.
You can poly bush the chassis, the M3/M4 subframes are bolted directly to the chassis which removes a lot of the flex in the chassis and again gives tighter / more predictable handling.
M4 lower control arms for the front suspension will give you pointy front end.
LSD will give you a more predictable rear with better traction.
If you go with more power or want more grip then a wider set of wheels with pilot sport 4s tyres will be excellent for fast road use.
Have a look at the baby BMW website which is dedicated to the 1/2 series and will give you a lot of really good advice.
You can poly bush the chassis, the M3/M4 subframes are bolted directly to the chassis which removes a lot of the flex in the chassis and again gives tighter / more predictable handling.
M4 lower control arms for the front suspension will give you pointy front end.
LSD will give you a more predictable rear with better traction.
If you go with more power or want more grip then a wider set of wheels with pilot sport 4s tyres will be excellent for fast road use.
Have a look at the baby BMW website which is dedicated to the 1/2 series and will give you a lot of really good advice.
Olivergt said:
inline6bmwfan said:
Suspension is already changed and im happy with it, looking at the next thing now, thank you.
You mentioned poly bushes and anti-roll bars, that's all part of the suspension to me.Anyway.
Are you still on run-flats? if you are then a decent set of tyres can transform the handling and the feel of the car.
Also, have you looked at lighter wheels? Anything you can do to reduce unsprung weight will help.
Evanivitch said:
mk1coopers said:
Strut braces (if it hasn't already got them) could help
This. But also consider further bracing depending on the model, you may be surprised what is available.Then there's the case of weight. Reducing the weight overall, lowering the centre of gravity and reducing unsprung weight.
inline6bmwfan said:
Im quite happy with the route ive taken and im going down thank you.
The practicality of the car is a bonus aswell (5 door).
My mistake.. this is after all only the second thread you've made complaining that you can't seem to get the handling of the car how you want it despite spending non-trivial amounts of money and effort trying to do so. The practicality of the car is a bonus aswell (5 door).
As long as you're enjoying yourself that's what counts
KaraK said:
inline6bmwfan said:
Im quite happy with the route ive taken and im going down thank you.
The practicality of the car is a bonus aswell (5 door).
My mistake.. this is after all only the second thread you've made complaining that you can't seem to get the handling of the car how you want it despite spending non-trivial amounts of money and effort trying to do so. The practicality of the car is a bonus aswell (5 door).
As long as you're enjoying yourself that's what counts
MC Bodge said:
inline6bmwfan said:
To a sporty feeling hot hatch/sports car. I.e. A normal 1/2/3 series bmw to a proper m car.
Have you drive the "M" versions of BMW? What did they do differently to your car?Setting up the damping and geometry of
what you have might make a difference.
You've already posted about this in the BMW section, but we'll run with the duplicate as well.
In this case you're trying to replicate M-level handling, best way is to check out the E46 to see how that differed - in that car the M version swapped normal metallastic bushes for spherical bearings in a few rear joints, stiffer suspension and different damper rates and different geometry. Different LCAs in the front.
ETA:
In this case you're trying to replicate M-level handling, best way is to check out the E46 to see how that differed - in that car the M version swapped normal metallastic bushes for spherical bearings in a few rear joints, stiffer suspension and different damper rates and different geometry. Different LCAs in the front.
ETA:
inline6bmwfan said:
Better feel of what the car was doing, stiffer, more positive turn in.
What were the OEM tyre sizes and what have you got now? The ratio between tread and rim width is a key factor in turn-in feel.Edited by Krikkit on Tuesday 28th June 18:04
Krikkit said:
You've already posted about this in the BMW section, but we'll run with the duplicate as well.
In this case you're trying to replicate M-level handling, best way is to check out the E46 to see how that differed - in that car the M version swapped normal metallastic bushes for spherical bearings in a few rear joints, stiffer suspension and different damper rates and different geometry. Different LCAs in the front.
ETA:
OEM 225 front 7.5J rim.In this case you're trying to replicate M-level handling, best way is to check out the E46 to see how that differed - in that car the M version swapped normal metallastic bushes for spherical bearings in a few rear joints, stiffer suspension and different damper rates and different geometry. Different LCAs in the front.
ETA:
inline6bmwfan said:
Better feel of what the car was doing, stiffer, more positive turn in.
What were the OEM tyre sizes and what have you got now? The ratio between tread and rim width is a key factor in turn-in feel.Edited by Krikkit on Tuesday 28th June 18:04
Mine now, lightweight, 8.5J rim, 245 width.
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