What would F1 cars look like with no regulations?
Discussion
Totally hypothetical question as I’m watching FP2 today and all the talk of the FIA regulations etc…
What if there were no regs at all? How would the cars be designed?
Yes, many of the regs are for driver safety.. also driver survivability (max g in corners etc)
Would they be fully enclosed for aero? Would they be open wheel? Active suspension?
What engine setup / power / aero would they have that would get them around both Monaco as well as Jeddah that wouldn’t kill the driver while cornering?
Let’s assume they can’t change to design for each circuit. One design for the season.
What if there were no regs at all? How would the cars be designed?
Yes, many of the regs are for driver safety.. also driver survivability (max g in corners etc)
Would they be fully enclosed for aero? Would they be open wheel? Active suspension?
What engine setup / power / aero would they have that would get them around both Monaco as well as Jeddah that wouldn’t kill the driver while cornering?
Let’s assume they can’t change to design for each circuit. One design for the season.
vaud said:
This is the only answer this thread needs.A car that if it existed, they'd probably pass out from driving it far ahead of completing a GP distance - the reason there are regs.
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 18th June 12:41
vaud said:
I'm not convinced they'd look that close to current F1 cars. Surely it's more efficient to have bodywork bridging the gap between the front wheels and the monocoque? I also don't think they'd have wings, I suspect all of the down-force would be generated under-body?That car may have been conceived with no regulations in mind, but it was clearly designed very much with aesthetics in mind.
TheDeuce said:
A car that if it existed, they'd probably pass out from driving it far ahead of completing a GP distance - the reason there are regs.
No regs would presumably remove the need for the cars to carry a driver at all? I suspect they'd be remote controlled or even fully autonomous. kambites said:
TheDeuce said:
A car that if it existed, they'd probably pass out from driving it far ahead of completing a GP distance - the reason there are regs.
No regs would presumably remove the need for the cars to carry a driver at all? I suspect they'd be remote controlled or even fully autonomous. kambites said:
I'm not convinced they'd look that close to current F1 cars. Surely it's more efficient to have bodywork bridging the gap between the front wheels and the monocoque? I also don't think they'd have wings, I suspect all of the down-force would be generated under-body?
That car may have been conceived with no regulations in mind, but it was clearly designed very much with aesthetics in mind.
All-enveloping bodies would probably not be too popular with the drivers, especially at Monaco and Baku etc. See HERE for a photo of Fangio's W196 Streamliner at Silverstone in 1954. Mercedes very quickly came up with open-wheel bodies for the slower tracks (and even shorter wheelbases for Monaco etc.).That car may have been conceived with no regulations in mind, but it was clearly designed very much with aesthetics in mind.
kambites said:
No regs would presumably remove the need for the cars to carry a driver at all? I suspect they'd be remote controlled or even fully autonomous.
There’s a difference between no regs and fundamentally altering the sport.That’s like saying that without rules, there would be no players in football.
Anyway, I think we’d see a lot of active aero, increasing downforce for corners and removing drag for straights.
Covered wheels and cockpits too.
k up the downforce for the poor sod behind.Presumably they'd look a lot like Le Mans cars, assuming sensible driver safety was required. Broadly speaking you'd have an open wheel car tucked under an aerodynamic body. Wheel size might be staggered front/rear depending on the combination of brakes/aero.
Perhaps even return of the 6-wheeler!
Perhaps even return of the 6-wheeler!
Active suspension, active aerodynamics, traction control, automatic gearboxes - all things that have been banned over the years.
Take out the crash tests, fuel flow limits and engine reliability rules, and you’re probably running 1,200bhp during the race - and a lot more in qualifying - in a much lighter car.
It would be very difficult to drive physically though, and accidents would be much more serious for driver health than they are today. Racing would be rubbish, because of the aero wake and higher cornering speeds making it impossible to follow another car. We’d need to redesign most of the circuits to accommodate the cars.
The closest recent analogy is the Porsche 919 Evo, where they took an LMP1 car as a base, and made it 10% faster around a lap by adding power, losing weight and refining the aerodynamics in ways banned by competition rules. I would suggest that, with a clean sheet of paper, the F1 boys and girls could probably make something 25% faster than the current cars.
Take out the crash tests, fuel flow limits and engine reliability rules, and you’re probably running 1,200bhp during the race - and a lot more in qualifying - in a much lighter car.
It would be very difficult to drive physically though, and accidents would be much more serious for driver health than they are today. Racing would be rubbish, because of the aero wake and higher cornering speeds making it impossible to follow another car. We’d need to redesign most of the circuits to accommodate the cars.
The closest recent analogy is the Porsche 919 Evo, where they took an LMP1 car as a base, and made it 10% faster around a lap by adding power, losing weight and refining the aerodynamics in ways banned by competition rules. I would suggest that, with a clean sheet of paper, the F1 boys and girls could probably make something 25% faster than the current cars.
Sandpit Steve said:
Active suspension, active aerodynamics, traction control, automatic gearboxes - all things that have been banned over the years.
Take out the crash tests, fuel flow limits and engine reliability rules, and you’re probably running 1,200bhp during the race - and a lot more in qualifying - in a much lighter car.
It would be very difficult to drive physically though, and accidents would be much more serious for driver health than they are today. Racing would be rubbish, because of the aero wake and higher cornering speeds making it impossible to follow another car. We’d need to redesign most of the circuits to accommodate the cars.
The closest recent analogy is the Porsche 919 Evo, where they took an LMP1 car as a base, and made it 10% faster around a lap by adding power, losing weight and refining the aerodynamics in ways banned by competition rules. I would suggest that, with a clean sheet of paper, the F1 boys and girls could probably make something 25% faster than the current cars.
With electric boost it'd be more like 2000+hp and cornering forces that fighter pilots can only sustain for relatively short periods. The idea of a 2 hour GP would be out!Take out the crash tests, fuel flow limits and engine reliability rules, and you’re probably running 1,200bhp during the race - and a lot more in qualifying - in a much lighter car.
It would be very difficult to drive physically though, and accidents would be much more serious for driver health than they are today. Racing would be rubbish, because of the aero wake and higher cornering speeds making it impossible to follow another car. We’d need to redesign most of the circuits to accommodate the cars.
The closest recent analogy is the Porsche 919 Evo, where they took an LMP1 car as a base, and made it 10% faster around a lap by adding power, losing weight and refining the aerodynamics in ways banned by competition rules. I would suggest that, with a clean sheet of paper, the F1 boys and girls could probably make something 25% faster than the current cars.
Although I suppose it wouldn't be a two hour GP anymore, Newey's concept car in software was demonstrated to be 20 seconds faster per lap at Suzuka. Just think how much concentration would be required to maintain that sort of pace, on top of +8g to -4g lateral on an endless repeat cycle.
TheDeuce said:
With electric boost it'd be more like 2000+hp and cornering forces that fighter pilots can only sustain for relatively short periods. The idea of a 2 hour GP would be out!
Although I suppose it wouldn't be a two hour GP anymore, Newey's concept car in software was demonstrated to be 20 seconds faster per lap at Suzuka. Just think how much concentration would be required to maintain that sort of pace, on top of +8g to -4g lateral on an endless repeat cycle.
Grand Prix is two hours or two hundred miles.Although I suppose it wouldn't be a two hour GP anymore, Newey's concept car in software was demonstrated to be 20 seconds faster per lap at Suzuka. Just think how much concentration would be required to maintain that sort of pace, on top of +8g to -4g lateral on an endless repeat cycle.
Might be little more than a 1hr blast if the G was that high, and top speeds to high.
How much reinforcement would be needed for the tarmac??
InformationSuperHighway said:
Totally hypothetical question as I’m watching FP2 today and all the talk of the FIA regulations etc…
What if there were no regs at all? How would the cars be designed?
Yes, many of the regs are for driver safety.. also driver survivability (max g in corners etc)
Would they be fully enclosed for aero? Would they be open wheel? Active suspension?
What engine setup / power / aero would they have that would get them around both Monaco as well as Jeddah that wouldn’t kill the driver while cornering?
Let’s assume they can’t change to design for each circuit. One design for the season.
WTF1 made a good video about it. What if there were no regs at all? How would the cars be designed?
Yes, many of the regs are for driver safety.. also driver survivability (max g in corners etc)
Would they be fully enclosed for aero? Would they be open wheel? Active suspension?
What engine setup / power / aero would they have that would get them around both Monaco as well as Jeddah that wouldn’t kill the driver while cornering?
Let’s assume they can’t change to design for each circuit. One design for the season.
Here https://youtu.be/fIPX0jHPCfg
mat205125 said:
How much reinforcement would be needed for the tarmac??
I believe that were such a car ever to race, it would require the development of new type of surface as nothing currently available would be able to cope. The closest is the sort of surface they use on aircraft carrier runways which is as rough as old boots. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff