Blue flag collision, who was at fault?
Discussion
There is some debate surrounding this "hit" during a race at Knockhill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo0srBEv0Q4
The silver BMW was being lapped (blue flags waving) by the in-car Radical.
Who was in the wrong here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo0srBEv0Q4
The silver BMW was being lapped (blue flags waving) by the in-car Radical.
Who was in the wrong here?
to expand...... just because the marshall has waved a Blue flag, doesn't mean the car being lapped has 1) seen it 2) In the right position to ket the lapping car through 3) Going to obey the flag
The onus is on the lapping car to still make a safe manoeuvre. Over that blind corner is not a safe place!!
The onus is on the lapping car to still make a safe manoeuvre. Over that blind corner is not a safe place!!
Under Motorsport UK rules, the blue flag (flashing) is an indication that someone wants to overtake you. You can be reported for not complying, but it is not a specific instruction to do something within a certain timeframe like F1.
I see this as a racing incident. The Radical tries to go past, the other car doesn't leave him (quite) enough room, but I don't have any sense as to how experienced the other driver is, and he may not have see the Radical due to the difference in speed. The Radical is overtaking and needs to do it safely.
The chicane at Knockhill demands taking the full width at anything approaching racing speed and it is not a 'normal' overtaking corner as there is not enough track width to make the turn at a reasonable speed and let someone overtake.
I see this as a racing incident. The Radical tries to go past, the other car doesn't leave him (quite) enough room, but I don't have any sense as to how experienced the other driver is, and he may not have see the Radical due to the difference in speed. The Radical is overtaking and needs to do it safely.
The chicane at Knockhill demands taking the full width at anything approaching racing speed and it is not a 'normal' overtaking corner as there is not enough track width to make the turn at a reasonable speed and let someone overtake.
CharlesElliott said:
Under Motorsport UK rules, the blue flag (flashing) is an indication that someone wants to overtake you. You can be reported for not complying, but it is not a specific instruction to do something within a certain timeframe like F1.
12.24.3. (b) Blue flag – Stationary: Another competitor is following
close behind.
(c) Blue flag – Waved: Another competitor is trying to
overtake.
what exactly could you get reported for there, there is nothing to comply with... i've had back markers literally run me off the road when lapping them uner blue flags and never seen anyone pulled up for it
Graham said:
12.24.3.
(b) Blue flag – Stationary: Another competitor is following
close behind.
(c) Blue flag – Waved: Another competitor is trying to
overtake.
what exactly could you get reported for there, there is nothing to comply with... i've had back markers literally run me off the road when lapping them uner blue flags and never seen anyone pulled up for it
12.21 A car alone on the track may use the full width of the track. However, as soon as it is caught by a car which is about to lap it the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first possible opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not seem to make full use of the rear-view mirrors, flag marshals will display waved blue flags to indicate that the faster driver wants to overtake. Any driver who appears to ignore the blue flags will be reported to the Clerk of Course.(b) Blue flag – Stationary: Another competitor is following
close behind.
(c) Blue flag – Waved: Another competitor is trying to
overtake.
what exactly could you get reported for there, there is nothing to comply with... i've had back markers literally run me off the road when lapping them uner blue flags and never seen anyone pulled up for it
To add my own opinion. Many passes are made on that section of track, every race, so I reject the "its too tight" argument. Its a race and not a track day.
The radical was alongside to the point of being in front when the BMW turned in and hit. Looking at the Radical's position it couldn't have left more room - he had climbed the kerb to ensure there was plenty of space for both cars.
Ignoring the blue flags - this is a pass during a race, if the passing car gets alongside you can't continue to turn in as if he weren't there.
The radical was alongside to the point of being in front when the BMW turned in and hit. Looking at the Radical's position it couldn't have left more room - he had climbed the kerb to ensure there was plenty of space for both cars.
Ignoring the blue flags - this is a pass during a race, if the passing car gets alongside you can't continue to turn in as if he weren't there.
Order66 said:
To add my own opinion. Many passes are made on that section of track, every race, so I reject the "its too tight" argument. Its a race and not a track day.
The radical was alongside to the point of being in front when the BMW turned in and hit. Looking at the Radical's position it couldn't have left more room - he had climbed the kerb to ensure there was plenty of space for both cars.
Ignoring the blue flags - this is a pass during a race, if the passing car gets alongside you can't continue to turn in as if he weren't there.
The BMW was forced offline by the previous pass. Their line across the chicane was already compromised and committed before the Radical tried the pass. It couldn't go in at that angle and stay wide at the second part of the chicane. The radical was alongside to the point of being in front when the BMW turned in and hit. Looking at the Radical's position it couldn't have left more room - he had climbed the kerb to ensure there was plenty of space for both cars.
Ignoring the blue flags - this is a pass during a race, if the passing car gets alongside you can't continue to turn in as if he weren't there.
The BMW still didn't go that tight to the second kerb. The Radical was already drifting from the kerb when the contact happened.
I don't think the BMW shoulders any fault in that incident. The pass by the Radical was too risky.
Many years ago, when the series I race in had proper drivers briefings, it was emphasised that slower cars (note - not slower drivers) should stick to the line and leave faster cars/drivers to find their own way round.
In reality, there was an element of ‘helping each other’ as in historics there is often a big gap between both cars and drivers.
Both ruined by an opinion piece in Motorsport (or Octane, can’t remember which) by the late Tony Dron (who I liked and got on with, before anyone says anything) stating that slower drivers/cars should just get out of the way, conflicting with formal advice and causing loads of problems. Inclusion of doubt on what people should do ends up causing more avoidable accidents.
It’s club racing, no one will make a career from it.
In reality, there was an element of ‘helping each other’ as in historics there is often a big gap between both cars and drivers.
Both ruined by an opinion piece in Motorsport (or Octane, can’t remember which) by the late Tony Dron (who I liked and got on with, before anyone says anything) stating that slower drivers/cars should just get out of the way, conflicting with formal advice and causing loads of problems. Inclusion of doubt on what people should do ends up causing more avoidable accidents.
It’s club racing, no one will make a career from it.
Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff