Budget cap - Horner continues to scaremonger
Discussion
..but not the smaller teams.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61551759
To be fair, all the larger teams moaning about it, not just Red Bull, while the smaller teams seem capable of actually managing their budgets and expectations.
I'm not sure I understand it...
(OK, I do - they want to win, and actually have unlimited Red Bull money available were it allowed)
...are they (large teams) scared someone else could actually do a better job than them on restricted money, and that without unlimited spend, they would be embarrassed, and we can't have that, now can we?
It just smacks of an inability to mange efficiently - it's easy to do anything when people throw money at it, but controlling and managing spend too defined budget is much harder (I should know, I do it for a living
)
The smaller teams obviously believe the same.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61551759
To be fair, all the larger teams moaning about it, not just Red Bull, while the smaller teams seem capable of actually managing their budgets and expectations.
I'm not sure I understand it...
(OK, I do - they want to win, and actually have unlimited Red Bull money available were it allowed)
...are they (large teams) scared someone else could actually do a better job than them on restricted money, and that without unlimited spend, they would be embarrassed, and we can't have that, now can we?
It just smacks of an inability to mange efficiently - it's easy to do anything when people throw money at it, but controlling and managing spend too defined budget is much harder (I should know, I do it for a living
)The smaller teams obviously believe the same.
It’s not just that the larger teams have to work to a budget, it’s that until very recently they had a much larger budget with which to work. The small teams are working up to the budget cap, and the large teams are very much working down to it.
The larger teams have many fewer staff, fewer computing resources and less wind tunnel time available. The budget cap is reducing by £5m a year too, about three dozen aerodynamicists.
A job that might have taken Red Bull a week in 2019, now takes a month, which the managers will definitely have noticed!
Horner should count himself grateful anyway. Despite the problems they have had, RB are leading both championships, and their rivals need more development than they are allowed to afford. Would he have preferred Mercedes to have been able to throw unlimited money at fixing their issues in the first few races?
The larger teams have many fewer staff, fewer computing resources and less wind tunnel time available. The budget cap is reducing by £5m a year too, about three dozen aerodynamicists.
A job that might have taken Red Bull a week in 2019, now takes a month, which the managers will definitely have noticed!
Horner should count himself grateful anyway. Despite the problems they have had, RB are leading both championships, and their rivals need more development than they are allowed to afford. Would he have preferred Mercedes to have been able to throw unlimited money at fixing their issues in the first few races?
Sandpit Steve said:
It’s not just that the larger teams have to work to a budget, it’s that until very recently they had a much larger budget with which to work. The small teams are working up to the budget cap, and the large teams are very much working down to it.
The larger teams have many fewer staff, fewer computing resources and less wind tunnel time available. The budget cap is reducing by 5m a year too, about three dozen aerodynamicists.
A job that might have taken Red Bull a week in 2019, now takes a month, which the managers will definitely have noticed!
Horner should count himself grateful anyway. Despite the problems they have had, RB are leading both championships, and their rivals need more development than they are allowed to afford. Would he have preferred Mercedes to have been able to throw unlimited money at fixing their issues in the first few races?
I can only assume that some of the (conspiracy) theories abounding on Twitter in response, stating that RB (and possibly the other larger teams too) has already spent 75% of it's development budget to get to this point are (partly) true, and that the fear of being caught in the future is driving the public statements.The larger teams have many fewer staff, fewer computing resources and less wind tunnel time available. The budget cap is reducing by 5m a year too, about three dozen aerodynamicists.
A job that might have taken Red Bull a week in 2019, now takes a month, which the managers will definitely have noticed!
Horner should count himself grateful anyway. Despite the problems they have had, RB are leading both championships, and their rivals need more development than they are allowed to afford. Would he have preferred Mercedes to have been able to throw unlimited money at fixing their issues in the first few races?
Prepping the ground for "it wasn't our fault Ferrari and Mercedes caught and passed us, it was the budget cap".......??
JonChalk said:
I can only assume that some of the (conspiracy) theories abounding on Twitter in response, stating that RB (and possibly the other larger teams too) has already spent 75% of it's development budget to get to this point are (partly) true, and that the fear of being caught in the future is driving the public statements.
If any of the teams have already spent 75% of their budget then they haven't done a very good job of predicting their spend or managing it. Do we really think any of them are that poorly managed?JonChalk said:
...are they (large teams) scared someone else could actually do a better job than them on restricted money, and that without unlimited spend, they would be embarrassed, and we can't have that, now can we?
It's a competition, teams aren't scared of losing face or being embarrassed, the teams want to win, and that's the main driving factor. The larger teams will want to be (and expect to be) able to do the most efficient job through their expertise and management, it's not like they're a public sector entity that just wants to protect their pension no matter how poor the service / product 
JonChalk said:
It just smacks of an inability to mange efficiently - it's easy to do anything when people throw money at it, but controlling and managing spend too defined budget is much harder (I should know, I do it for a living )
Ahh so you do think they're incompetently managed, because you do it for a living. As a presumed fan of motorsport, why don't you do it in the most competitive motorsport environment in the world? The odd billinoaire offspring aside, as a sport it's pretty much a meritocracy so you'd do well if you're good )
For an example of how easy it is to do if you throw money at it, I point you towards the Laurence Stroll cash cannon that's been ejaculating millions up the wall at Silverstone for years to arguably make the team worse
Probably a bit unfair to single out Horner given that all the of the rich teams have been complaining, but I agree the cap absolutely should not be changed mid-season. It's the same for everyone; if the best way some of the teams can spend their budget is to miss some races then let them miss some races.
If the FIA move the goal posts mid-season to allow the big team to spend more, it will make a complete mockery of the whole idea of the budget cap.
If the FIA move the goal posts mid-season to allow the big team to spend more, it will make a complete mockery of the whole idea of the budget cap.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 24th May 09:54
I don't think he is scaremongering to be honest. Of course teams budget for the season but there are so many factors outside of their control at the moment. Raw materials have gone through the roof as have transport costs and energy costs are rising all the time. My own small business has seen a massive increase in costs, I hate to think what it's like for something the size and complexity of an F1 team.
SturdyHSV said:
JonChalk said:
I can only assume that some of the (conspiracy) theories abounding on Twitter in response, stating that RB (and possibly the other larger teams too) has already spent 75% of it's development budget to get to this point are (partly) true, and that the fear of being caught in the future is driving the public statements.
If any of the teams have already spent 75% of their budget then they haven't done a very good job of predicting their spend or managing it. Do we really think any of them are that poorly managed?JonChalk said:
I can only assume that some of the (conspiracy) theories abounding on Twitter in response, stating that RB (and possibly the other larger teams too) has already spent 75% of it's development budget to get to this point are (partly) true, and that the fear of being caught in the future is driving the public statements.
Prepping the ground for "it wasn't our fault Ferrari and Mercedes caught and passed us, it was the budget cap".......??
I think that the bulk of the budget will be known at the start of the season.Prepping the ground for "it wasn't our fault Ferrari and Mercedes caught and passed us, it was the budget cap".......??
It costs about the same for any team to attend every race
The cost of an engine package is known.
The engineering team is effectively a team of in-house consultants
The manufacturing team have a finite manufacturing capacity.
So the design side and capacity for developments are known, as is the in-house manufacturing.
So the biggest variables are materials, items procured from external suppliers and unforeseen demands caused by significant crash damage.
AM used to be very efficient with their spending, they now seem to be throwing money at problems
AR Sauber, and Hass probably have changed nothing and so seem to be on an upward curve. McLaren seem to have dropped the ball, again.
RB, Mercedes and Ferrari have already cut their cloth and are probably the only teams wishing they could go back to throwing money at problems.
Williams continue to struggle to turn cash into results.
TheDeuce said:
Adrian W said:
The whole thing is a farce anyway, if it is a budget cap it should include Driver and senior management salaries as well.
That was the only way they could get the teams to agree to it. There had to be some benefit for the established top spenders...Has anyone seen any team principal offering to use some of their uncapped salary to support their teams ?
JonChalk said:
…and yet they still moan about it.
Has anyone seen any team principal offering to use some of their uncapped salary to support their teams ?
If that was an option to circumvent the budget cap, then that's what they'd all be doing, which really would make it a farce.Has anyone seen any team principal offering to use some of their uncapped salary to support their teams ?
Staff salaries of £1 / month, with a discretionary bonus from Toto himself every month to cover the difference
Presumably it could be classed as some sort of charitable donation too and net Toto a nice little tax advantage!
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