Calling a man 'bald' is sexual harassment - Tribunal
Discussion
oddman said:
Guardian
Not surprised in West Yorkshire. Where I live and worked - been called the same and worse - missed my chance it seems.
As a bit of a Human Rights Law nerd I can see the legal reasoning. Will be interesting to see if it's challenged
He can2be from Yorkshire, the big Jessie.Not surprised in West Yorkshire. Where I live and worked - been called the same and worse - missed my chance it seems.
As a bit of a Human Rights Law nerd I can see the legal reasoning. Will be interesting to see if it's challenged
Interestingly he doesn't seem to mind being called a
. Just a bald one 
oddman said:
Guardian
Not surprised in West Yorkshire. Where I live and worked - been called the same and worse - missed my chance it seems.
As a bit of a Human Rights Law nerd I can see the legal reasoning. Will be interesting to see if it's challenged
I think they were stretching a lot. At least in making it into sexual harassment.Not surprised in West Yorkshire. Where I live and worked - been called the same and worse - missed my chance it seems.
As a bit of a Human Rights Law nerd I can see the legal reasoning. Will be interesting to see if it's challenged
If they'd called him a 'lanky
' it'd have fit the same argument (more likely a man will be tall and thin) and just as far from having a sexual element to it.All sorts of characteristics you could argue have gender specific distribution, so is any reference to any characteristic verboten?
And is only male pattern baldness a protected characteristic, or do alopecia or a shaved head count too? And as a male characteristic how does that impact on bald women making a claim?
Not like employment tribunals are exactly the legal Premier League so I guess we can wait and see how this goes.
oddman said:
Guardian
Not surprised in West Yorkshire. Where I live and worked - been called the same and worse - missed my chance it seems.
As a bit of a Human Rights Law nerd I can see the legal reasoning. Will be interesting to see if it's challenged
Bloody snowflake.Not surprised in West Yorkshire. Where I live and worked - been called the same and worse - missed my chance it seems.
As a bit of a Human Rights Law nerd I can see the legal reasoning. Will be interesting to see if it's challenged
Opps, is that racial harassment now?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I think it's offensive and bullying behaviour but probably doesn't fit most peoples definition of sexual harassment.
This. I think they could have ruled in his favour without starting a pantomime around it. Bullying and harassment exists without the gender element. Though I guess someone's lawyer dragged it up and they went with it.
Just to check, if I call someone a 'stupid
' in which circumstances does that become sexual harassment? Its an interesting one, I dont think I have ever called anyone Bald, no need to really as I expect they are aware of it already and it will not be a surprise.
I know it can be friendly banter, or can seem like it is but its best to avoid being personal, and in this case it sounds anything but friendly.
It seems normalized to call men names regarding their baldness, but is for example a lady is bald, I dont expect people are as forthright in mentioning it. Probably because it is more likely a medical condition like Alopecia or maybe Cancer treatment than standard old Male Pattern Baldness.
If its not sexual harassment, which implies more of a sexual connotation, I would call it more sexual discrimination based on that reticence to be as equally direct with bald females. Its not quite the same as referring to breast size perhaps, as breasts are more sexualized than hair, or lack of is
I expect most bald men just embrace it, crack on and the references to it are water off a ducks back, but you never know, some men may hate it and really dont appreciate it. I think especially for younger chaps, remember a lad at school, absolutely lovely guy, very clever and self effacing, he started going bald in his teens and there were some really nasty comments.
Jamie King sounds like a nasty piece of work, surprised being like that in a warehouse environment and talking to people like that nobody has battered him.
I know it can be friendly banter, or can seem like it is but its best to avoid being personal, and in this case it sounds anything but friendly.
It seems normalized to call men names regarding their baldness, but is for example a lady is bald, I dont expect people are as forthright in mentioning it. Probably because it is more likely a medical condition like Alopecia or maybe Cancer treatment than standard old Male Pattern Baldness.
If its not sexual harassment, which implies more of a sexual connotation, I would call it more sexual discrimination based on that reticence to be as equally direct with bald females. Its not quite the same as referring to breast size perhaps, as breasts are more sexualized than hair, or lack of is
I expect most bald men just embrace it, crack on and the references to it are water off a ducks back, but you never know, some men may hate it and really dont appreciate it. I think especially for younger chaps, remember a lad at school, absolutely lovely guy, very clever and self effacing, he started going bald in his teens and there were some really nasty comments.
Jamie King sounds like a nasty piece of work, surprised being like that in a warehouse environment and talking to people like that nobody has battered him.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm too tall for my hair - if I was only 6 foot it would be lovelyI struggle to understand people's issue with it if i'm honest. My Granddad and Dad were bald as far back as my memory goes. I've always known it would happen to me so kept my head shaved from the age of about 19, means nobody I know has ever really noticed as the stubble has thinned on top
J4CKO said:
Its an interesting one, I dont think I have ever called anyone Bald, no need to really as I expect they are aware of it already and it will not be a surprise.
I know it can be friendly banter, or can seem like it is but its best to avoid being personal, and in this case it sounds anything but friendly.
It seems normalized to call men names regarding their baldness, but is for example a lady is bald, I dont expect people are as forthright in mentioning it. Probably because it is more likely a medical condition like Alopecia or maybe Cancer treatment than standard old Male Pattern Baldness.
If its not sexual harassment, which implies more of a sexual connotation, I would call it more sexual discrimination based on that reticence to be as equally direct with bald females. Its not quite the same as referring to breast size perhaps, as breasts are more sexualized than hair, or lack of is
I expect most bald men just embrace it, crack on and the references to it are water off a ducks back, but you never know, some men may hate it and really dont appreciate it. I think especially for younger chaps, remember a lad at school, absolutely lovely guy, very clever and self effacing, he started going bald in his teens and there were some really nasty comments.
Jamie King sounds like a nasty piece of work, surprised being like that in a warehouse environment and talking to people like that nobody has battered him.
It’s not sexual harassment by any stretch, it’s either verbal abuse or a toxic work environmentI know it can be friendly banter, or can seem like it is but its best to avoid being personal, and in this case it sounds anything but friendly.
It seems normalized to call men names regarding their baldness, but is for example a lady is bald, I dont expect people are as forthright in mentioning it. Probably because it is more likely a medical condition like Alopecia or maybe Cancer treatment than standard old Male Pattern Baldness.
If its not sexual harassment, which implies more of a sexual connotation, I would call it more sexual discrimination based on that reticence to be as equally direct with bald females. Its not quite the same as referring to breast size perhaps, as breasts are more sexualized than hair, or lack of is
I expect most bald men just embrace it, crack on and the references to it are water off a ducks back, but you never know, some men may hate it and really dont appreciate it. I think especially for younger chaps, remember a lad at school, absolutely lovely guy, very clever and self effacing, he started going bald in his teens and there were some really nasty comments.
Jamie King sounds like a nasty piece of work, surprised being like that in a warehouse environment and talking to people like that nobody has battered him.
I come from a long line of thick-haired men, no bloke in my immediate family has ever gone bald.
Although I'm 50 I've still got a ridiculously thick mane (even though it's pretty much all prematurely white now - I started getting grey hairs at 19) this is never likely to be a problem for me, but I'm aware that a lot of fellas are sensitive about hair loss, so I never use it as something to poke someone with. I've got a big hooter, so know what it's like to be on the end of 'jokes' that are really bullying.
IANAL but if you apply the 'Man on the Clapham Omnibus' test to this, I wouldn't say he has been 'sexually' harassed, but he has been subjected to bullying behaviour. Calling someone a bald in the workplace is not on. Jamie King sounds like a workplace bully to me.
However, the tribunal has ruled otherwise. Wonder if there will be an appeal or whether the company will just accept it as one of those things you get when you employ workplace bullies like Jamie King?
Although I'm 50 I've still got a ridiculously thick mane (even though it's pretty much all prematurely white now - I started getting grey hairs at 19) this is never likely to be a problem for me, but I'm aware that a lot of fellas are sensitive about hair loss, so I never use it as something to poke someone with. I've got a big hooter, so know what it's like to be on the end of 'jokes' that are really bullying.
IANAL but if you apply the 'Man on the Clapham Omnibus' test to this, I wouldn't say he has been 'sexually' harassed, but he has been subjected to bullying behaviour. Calling someone a bald
in the workplace is not on. Jamie King sounds like a workplace bully to me. However, the tribunal has ruled otherwise. Wonder if there will be an appeal or whether the company will just accept it as one of those things you get when you employ workplace bullies like Jamie King?
PurpleTurtle said:
However, the tribunal has ruled otherwise. Wonder if there will be an appeal or whether the company will just accept it as one of those things you get when you employ workplace bullies like Jamie King?
It’s clearly been used by a cunning lawyer as a lever to up the ante on the claim and has been bought by a particularly gullible, probably follically challenged judgeThe company clearly needs to clean up its act but this really shouldn’t be headline news… no pun intended
xeny said:
So it'd be fine to say to a woman who had lost her her due to say chemotherapy or alopecia?
I can imagine hair loss for women is actually mentally tougher for women than men as it is less prevalent.
If that's a response to my comment I suppose I should clarify that I was 100% referring to it in a male instance. I would never dream of commenting on it in the case of a bald woman (and to be honest it's not something I personally would ever say full stop)I can imagine hair loss for women is actually mentally tougher for women than men as it is less prevalent.
I suppose you could see how it would be considered "banter" in predominantly male working environments - building etc.. I just can't say it's something I would ever take offence to as I've always accepted it would happen to me. Perhaps in those less usual cases, such as cancer treatment, I could understand.
In this specific case though, I think it's lunacy to call it sexual harassment and undermines the impact on true cases of that
The Wookie said:
PurpleTurtle said:
However, the tribunal has ruled otherwise. Wonder if there will be an appeal or whether the company will just accept it as one of those things you get when you employ workplace bullies like Jamie King?
It’s clearly been used by a cunning lawyer as a lever to up the ante on the claim and has been bought by a particularly gullible, probably follically challenged judgeThe Guardian Website said:
"The ruling – made by a panel of three men who in making their judgment bemoaned their own lack of hair– comes in a case between a veteran electrician and the manufacturing firm where he was employed."
Also, your username checks out! 
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