Audi/ Porsche to enter F1

[Smollet]

Audi and Porsche to enter Formula 1
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61300470

[TheDeuce]

Finally it's official.

And as expected, the new PU spec will basically be what Porsche developed as their solution/suggestion for the 2014 regs which never saw the light of day when the FIA decided to add the MGU-H to the spec. The bit which costs a fortune in terms of reliability and complexity.

I see these changes and the return of VW (via brands) as overall good news for the sport

[thegreenhell]

TheDeuce said:

I see these changes and the return of VW (via brands) as overall good news for the sport

'Return' implies they have been in F1 before.

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

TheDeuce said:

I see these changes and the return of VW (via brands) as overall good news for the sport

'Return' implies they have been in F1 before.

Return of their interest in the sport.

Back in the run up to 2014 new engine regs I get the impression they lost out due to Merc and Renault getting their way with the new regs. It was probably seen as quite a snub at Porsche at the time.

[Smollet]

thegreenhell said:

'Return' implies they have been in F1 before.

Porsche have been in F1 before but not as part of the VW group iirc

[CoolHands]

So red bull Porsche (will be successful)
And Audi want to buy a team (will be unsuccessful).
I reckon stroll will sell Aston Martin to them and make a st-tonne more money

[thegreenhell]

Smollet said:

thegreenhell said:

'Return' implies they have been in F1 before.

Porsche have been in F1 before but not as part of the VW group iirc

VW own several brands that have been involved in F1 before they bought them, but never while they owned them.

Still we wait to see if they actually follow through and commit to doing something. So far I don't think there has been any official announcement of anything, just an admission that the VW board has approved it's involvement, and some more rumours.

[Animal]

thegreenhell said:

'Return' implies they have been in F1 before.

Porsche have been in F1 before.

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

Smollet said:

thegreenhell said:

'Return' implies they have been in F1 before.

Porsche have been in F1 before but not as part of the VW group iirc

VW own several brands that have been involved in F1 before they bought them, but never while they owned them.

Still we wait to see if they actually follow through and commit to doing something. So far I don't think there has been any official announcement of anything, just an admission that the VW board has approved it's involvement, and some more rumours.

It wasn't that they didn't follow through with it last time. They lost out in the battle to convince the FIA of the future engine specs. They were probably £100m deep in their investment at that point as they had developed a working F1 PU, minus the later specified MGU-H requirement.

This announcement is enough for me. They've said they will do it and the sport has confirmed the dropping of MGU-H. I suppose they could still pull out but as if today, or about a year ago, they're commitmend to F1.

[ch37]

Red Bull Porsche, based in Germany or the UK, I wonder? It would interesting to know if Toyota would accept an offer for their factory, which must be a rather costly exercise for a WEC entry (although I believe they still sell wind tunnel time to F1 teams, the facilities are still state of the art).

And who do Audi buy out? Hard to see beyond Williams or McLaren, unless Haas would entertain an offer to walk away (they have a factory/base in the UK, as well as the US).

[Terminator X]

I'drather they source some fking parts for their new cars vs spending money on F1

TX.

[Adrian W]

Why would they spend a penny on anything until the regulations are published, as they are not in it, they can’t have much of a say if any.

[TheDeuce]

Adrian W said:

Why would they spend a penny on anything until the regulations are published, as they are not in it, they can’t have much of a say if any.

That's the game. The manufacturers petition for for the formula regs they want and spend millions demonstrating why their idea is best.

It's like two animals going through some extended courtship procedure getting a new big name manufacturer into F1. Normally at the expense of pissing off another one.

Mercedes also started on their solution to the hybrid era years ahead of anything public. Mercedes won last time and Porsche lost. Manufacturers do generally want to be in F1, it's just they all have different ideas of what F1 spec should be and they all have a lot of influence.

[entropy]

TheDeuce said:

Return of their interest in the sport.

Back in the run up to 2014 new engine regs I get the impression they lost out due to Merc and Renault getting their way with the new regs. It was probably seen as quite a snub at Porsche at the time.

The 2014 regs were designed for VW in mind but they backed out at the last moment apparantly to do with Bernie being in charge - probably to do with VW wanting more influence in the sport?

[ArnageWRC]

Just like Aston-Martin, Porsche & Audi isn't really a good fit for F1; Sportscars is their natural home. Looking at the brands they own I'd find it funny if they'd enter under Skoda/Seat banner....

[anonymous-user]

Looks a pretty odd strategy. Audi and Porsche throw toys out of pram ? So both told they can do own thing? as competitors ?

[TheDeuce]

entropy said:

TheDeuce said:

Return of their interest in the sport.

Back in the run up to 2014 new engine regs I get the impression they lost out due to Merc and Renault getting their way with the new regs. It was probably seen as quite a snub at Porsche at the time.

The 2014 regs were designed for VW in mind but they backed out at the last moment apparantly to do with Bernie being in charge - probably to do with VW wanting more influence in the sport?

I don't think it's worth reading into anything said publicly too much. It's clear that both VW and Merc wanted in and one way or another Merc got their way.

You're right that the original idea for spec was what Porsche developed... But even that original idea would have been discussed with various manufacturers and gone back and fourth. Porsche no doubt felt that actually designing and proving the PU was the best way to seal the deal. Who knows what Merc did to swing it the other way. I suspect they got Renault onboard with the same design idea in order to swing the deal so that F1 secured two manufacturers.

I expect a lot of manufacturers at the time we're all for MGU-H as it pretty much guaranteed theyd hit the holy grail of +50% thermal efficiency which is great for selling hybrids which they all were back then. Times have changed though and now everyone seems in favour of less PU complexity and shifting the ecological argument over to bio fuel.

[ch37]

As the comments from the group appear to allude to, F1 is a pretty decent bet financially now, turning a profit is even a realistic goal for a big team (the Red Bull F1 team are bringing in more commercial revenue annually than the budget cap).

[TheDeuce]

ch37 said:

As the comments from the group appear to allude to, F1 is a pretty decent bet financially now, turning a profit is even a realistic goal for a big team (the Red Bull F1 team are bringing in more commercial revenue annually than the budget cap).

Totally. It's hard to see how any team can fail to turn a profit now - if they desire too. F1 is hugely valuable in terms of marketing and realistically it's possible to run a team for quite a bit less than it stands to make via sponsorship and F1 money.

I'm not sure that's a great thing as it might mean a team can survive endlessly regardless of performance... Time will tell on that front.

[robsco]

Porsche and Red Bull would be a match made in heaven.