Q1 2022 £3b loss Amazon
Discussion
Not a loss in sales - just slower growth than expected which has lead to a fall in share price:
telegraph said:
Amazon has suffered its slowest growth for two decades, knocking $150bn (£120bn) off its value on Thursday, as the pandemic internet shopping boom ground to a halt.
The online retail giant said revenues rose by 7pc in the first three months of the year to $116.4bn. This was the slowest growth since 2001, in the aftermath of the dotcom bubble.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/28/amazon-hit-slowest-growth-two-decades/The online retail giant said revenues rose by 7pc in the first three months of the year to $116.4bn. This was the slowest growth since 2001, in the aftermath of the dotcom bubble.
Welshbeef said:
News this morning Amazon really suffering a £3b loss in Q1 2022.
I wonder if we will hear those demanding more taxes from these huge companies - now nothing apart from employers NI.
It took a ‘£7.6b write down’ on Rivian shares and the company still increased revenue from the previous year despite it being unbelievably unusual / profitable for online business as we were all locked down for months.I wonder if we will hear those demanding more taxes from these huge companies - now nothing apart from employers NI.
Not sure many people have demanded more taxes as such from companies like Amazon anyway, just for them to pay the ‘correct’ amount of tax and not declare profits in the caymans etc.
Rick1.8t said:
Welshbeef said:
News this morning Amazon really suffering a £3b loss in Q1 2022.
I wonder if we will hear those demanding more taxes from these huge companies - now nothing apart from employers NI.
It took a ‘£7.6b write down’ on Rivian shares and the company still increased revenue from the previous year despite it being unbelievably unusual / profitable for online business as we were all locked down for months.I wonder if we will hear those demanding more taxes from these huge companies - now nothing apart from employers NI.
Not sure many people have demanded more taxes as such from companies like Amazon anyway, just for them to pay the ‘correct’ amount of tax and not declare profits in the caymans etc.
The overall loss says nothing of the profitability of the UK business and Amazon is one of the most blatant offenders among multinationals in terms of tax avoidance in the UK.
JagLover said:
Rick1.8t said:
Welshbeef said:
News this morning Amazon really suffering a £3b loss in Q1 2022.
I wonder if we will hear those demanding more taxes from these huge companies - now nothing apart from employers NI.
It took a ‘£7.6b write down’ on Rivian shares and the company still increased revenue from the previous year despite it being unbelievably unusual / profitable for online business as we were all locked down for months.I wonder if we will hear those demanding more taxes from these huge companies - now nothing apart from employers NI.
Not sure many people have demanded more taxes as such from companies like Amazon anyway, just for them to pay the ‘correct’ amount of tax and not declare profits in the caymans etc.
The overall loss says nothing of the profitability of the UK business and Amazon is one of the most blatant offenders among multinationals in terms of tax avoidance in the UK.
Mrr T said:
Amazon is a Luxembourg company. It clearly states that on its web page. If you want to buy from a company which pays UK corporation tax buy from a UK company.
Yes they base themselves in a tax haven. UK sales however are delivered via UK based infrastructure and Amazon Luxemburg has just five thousand staff despite all European sales being funnelled through that country. They made £19.4bn in UK sales last year, but the bulk of this was declared in Luxemburg as the UK subsidiary charges for fulfilment of orders only.
So they are tax avoiders and a change in the tax system is well overdue.
JagLover said:
Mrr T said:
Amazon is a Luxembourg company. It clearly states that on its web page. If you want to buy from a company which pays UK corporation tax buy from a UK company.
Yes they base themselves in a tax haven. UK sales however are delivered via UK based infrastructure and Amazon Luxemburg has just five thousand staff despite all European sales being funnelled through that country. They made £19.4bn in UK sales last year, but the bulk of this was declared in Luxemburg as the UK subsidiary charges for fulfilment of orders only.
So they are tax avoiders and a change in the tax system is well overdue.
If we had a Chancellor with grey matter, the UK could do things about this if it wanted.
Also do not forget that companies do not pay taxes. If Big Bad Global Corp were to give Sunak another £3bn a year, where do we really think that money would come from?
Rick1.8t said:
....
Not sure many people have demanded more taxes as such from companies like Amazon anyway, just for them to pay the ‘correct’ amount of tax and not declare profits in the caymans etc.
For those inclined to be disgruntled about such things, paying the "correct" amount of tax IS paying "more" tax. In all circumstances apart from their own usually. Not sure many people have demanded more taxes as such from companies like Amazon anyway, just for them to pay the ‘correct’ amount of tax and not declare profits in the caymans etc.
I’m certainly no Amazon apologist, but they are famously low margin and reinvest for growth. That $19 billion of sales quickly turns into $1.9 billion of profit we are arguing about.
I think some of the transfer pricing back to Luxembourg and the US is probably also reasonable.
Sure they are taking the piss in many ways but it’s not as simple as booking $20 billion profit in a tax haven.
Governments could also fix all of this in a heartbeat if they wanted to. It’s not about brain power, it’s about politics and not whacking the US cash cow export industry.
I think some of the transfer pricing back to Luxembourg and the US is probably also reasonable.
Sure they are taking the piss in many ways but it’s not as simple as booking $20 billion profit in a tax haven.
Governments could also fix all of this in a heartbeat if they wanted to. It’s not about brain power, it’s about politics and not whacking the US cash cow export industry.
Gweeds said:
Do you think the amount of tax Amazon pay is fair?
Do you think it isn't?Do you think they aren't paying what they are legally obliged to?
Do you think all companies should pay tax on revenue?
Do you think any Chancellor, of any colour, over the last 30yrs has done anything to improve the "fairness"?
Personally I think we could and should do much more to ensure business done here is lucrative both for the companies doing it and the exchequer. Simplistically I'd bin Corp Tax pretty much entirely and be much more creative on VAT and taxation on export/import etc, along with equal creativity on commercial property tax, employment taxes etc. The whole system needs a full revamp to account for the modern world and improve "fairness".
But until that happens (never), don't blame the player
JagLover said:
Yes they base themselves in a tax haven. UK sales however are delivered via UK based infrastructure and Amazon Luxemburg has just five thousand staff despite all European sales being funnelled through that country.
They made £19.4bn in UK sales last year, but the bulk of this was declared in Luxemburg as the UK subsidiary charges for fulfilment of orders only.
So they are tax avoiders and a change in the tax system is well overdue.
What change in the tax system would you suggest?They made £19.4bn in UK sales last year, but the bulk of this was declared in Luxemburg as the UK subsidiary charges for fulfilment of orders only.
So they are tax avoiders and a change in the tax system is well overdue.
Please do not take my question as being rude but the question of where income is taxed in multinational organisations is complex. The tests are largely agreed at international level so as to avoid double taxation.
I did post an example of the many stages of operation for a business with the question at each stage where should the income be taxed. I cannot find it at the moment I hoped I had a copy in word but do not. If anyone can find it can they please post it. I think it would help to explain the complexity.
Currently Amazon sell good from a Luxembourg company with the fulfillment completed by Amazon UK. I would guess Amazon change Amazon Lux on a cost plus basis. Normally this is cost plus 10%. Amazon UK will pay UK corporation tax on its profits.
How would you propose changing this? Remembering Amazon Lux could, if it wished, use a third party to carry out the fulfillment.
Murph7355 said:
Do you think it isn't?
Do you think they aren't paying what they are legally obliged to?
Do you think all companies should pay tax on revenue?
Do you think any Chancellor, of any colour, over the last 30yrs has done anything to improve the "fairness"?
Personally I think we could and should do much more to ensure business done here is lucrative both for the companies doing it and the exchequer. Simplistically I'd bin Corp Tax pretty much entirely and be much more creative on VAT and taxation on export/import etc, along with equal creativity on commercial property tax, employment taxes etc. The whole system needs a full revamp to account for the modern world and improve "fairness".
But until that happens (never), don't blame the player
No. I don’t think what they pay is fair. I think they use every legal angle to structure the company to avoid as much as possible. As they’re entitled to do. Do you think they aren't paying what they are legally obliged to?
Do you think all companies should pay tax on revenue?
Do you think any Chancellor, of any colour, over the last 30yrs has done anything to improve the "fairness"?
Personally I think we could and should do much more to ensure business done here is lucrative both for the companies doing it and the exchequer. Simplistically I'd bin Corp Tax pretty much entirely and be much more creative on VAT and taxation on export/import etc, along with equal creativity on commercial property tax, employment taxes etc. The whole system needs a full revamp to account for the modern world and improve "fairness".
But until that happens (never), don't blame the player
And it f
king sucks that our elected politicians are so pathetically weak. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff