Should we drop DRS
Discussion
Yes it helps overtaking, but the cost of quality IMO. How many times have we seen someone close lap after lap, get into the DRS zone and sail serenly past before the next braking zone.
I don't know about anyone else, but I want to see drivers an inch from hitting the opposing car because they are slipstreaming that hard, I want to see last minute dives on the brakes with lock ups and sparks, real hard racing.
DRS has served its purpose, but at the very least we need to try a couple of races without it so drivers no longer have the luxury of waiting for the 'easy' overtake.
Would be interested to hear if others agree/disagree and why.
I don't know about anyone else, but I want to see drivers an inch from hitting the opposing car because they are slipstreaming that hard, I want to see last minute dives on the brakes with lock ups and sparks, real hard racing.
DRS has served its purpose, but at the very least we need to try a couple of races without it so drivers no longer have the luxury of waiting for the 'easy' overtake.
Would be interested to hear if others agree/disagree and why.
patmahe said:
Yes it helps overtaking, but the cost of quality IMO. How many times have we seen someone close lap after lap, get into the DRS zone and sail serenly past before the next braking zone.
I don't know about anyone else, but I want to see drivers an inch from hitting the opposing car because they are slipstreaming that hard, I want to see last minute dives on the brakes with lock ups and sparks, real hard racing.
DRS has served its purpose, but at the very least we need to try a couple of races without it so drivers no longer have the luxury of waiting for the 'easy' overtake.
Would be interested to hear if others agree/disagree and why.
...or DRS is activated on BOTH CARS just as the cars come level?I don't know about anyone else, but I want to see drivers an inch from hitting the opposing car because they are slipstreaming that hard, I want to see last minute dives on the brakes with lock ups and sparks, real hard racing.
DRS has served its purpose, but at the very least we need to try a couple of races without it so drivers no longer have the luxury of waiting for the 'easy' overtake.
Would be interested to hear if others agree/disagree and why.
As much as I'm not a fan of DRS, I think it's still needed.
They need to look at how long the DRS zones are though, most tracks when the car behind has DRS the overtake is done way before they even get to the braking zone.
The problem is, a lot of people are conditioned to think that the total number of overtakes is important and 50 easy DRS passes means it's a good race. What we're missing is the quality of racing. It's going to be hard to go back.
They need to look at how long the DRS zones are though, most tracks when the car behind has DRS the overtake is done way before they even get to the braking zone.
The problem is, a lot of people are conditioned to think that the total number of overtakes is important and 50 easy DRS passes means it's a good race. What we're missing is the quality of racing. It's going to be hard to go back.
I'd like to see a sprint used as a no DRS trial, either Red Bull Ring or Interlagos would work as overtaking is at least more likely on either. We'd have a better idea then of how viable getting rid of it is.
Personally I think with the cars now able to follow closer shortening the zones so it enables cars to get alongside with it being an effective push to pass system would be the better solution. At least then the work to get the move done has to be done on the brakes
Personally I think with the cars now able to follow closer shortening the zones so it enables cars to get alongside with it being an effective push to pass system would be the better solution. At least then the work to get the move done has to be done on the brakes
Munter said:
I'd want to get rid of the DRS train effect. If the car ahead qualified for DRS you're just out of luck.
They should have made it so that if a car behind has DRS on you then you can't have it, even if you're within DRS of the car ahead. Then only the last car in the train gets it.The problem I have with DRS in general is that I think it makes the drivers lazy. They will just sit and wait for the DRS straight to make an easy pass, whereas if they didn't have it as an option they would have to try harder and be more creative with their attempts.
DRS to me is still Super Mario Kart. You get to a certain point on the track and bam you get a 'super power'...
What would be better would be in car adjustable boost like the 80s Turbo era. So you can use extra boost to overtake but it may be at the risk of running out of fuel at the end of the race. This is far more organic than a lap by lap assistance that never runs out. DRS is too artificial and just keeps being tweaked to try and make it appear less so.
What would be better would be in car adjustable boost like the 80s Turbo era. So you can use extra boost to overtake but it may be at the risk of running out of fuel at the end of the race. This is far more organic than a lap by lap assistance that never runs out. DRS is too artificial and just keeps being tweaked to try and make it appear less so.
Some don’t like it because it’s so visible. But we’ve had 30/40 years of overtaking aids / modes that may be easier on the eye (if you don’t like DRS). I think the speed and size of these cars makes overtaking so unlikely, particularly on a tight track, that something has to be done to make it possible.
We’ve had instances Over the last few seasons when a car is catching those in front at 2 seconds a lap but can’t get anywhere near close enough to make a pass. The new regs should have made it easier to get closer, but you still have the size and speed of these cars making it unlikely. Imola looked rubbish this week, even with DRS defending looked far too easy generally (just sit on a slightly tight entry).
I think there may be a chance to remove DRS on wider tracks with big braking zones. But they aren’t that common. And I don’t really want too many races decided by qualifying and strategy alone.
We’ve had instances Over the last few seasons when a car is catching those in front at 2 seconds a lap but can’t get anywhere near close enough to make a pass. The new regs should have made it easier to get closer, but you still have the size and speed of these cars making it unlikely. Imola looked rubbish this week, even with DRS defending looked far too easy generally (just sit on a slightly tight entry).
I think there may be a chance to remove DRS on wider tracks with big braking zones. But they aren’t that common. And I don’t really want too many races decided by qualifying and strategy alone.
BBC F1 Podcast made a good point.
The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
Evanivitch said:
BBC F1 Podcast made a good point.
The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
I can see that point, but the braking performance is the single most impressive thing about watching F1 cars in person. It doesn’t come across on the TV at all. The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
Better to look at the tracks themselves, and make sure they allow for multiple lines into the corners. Imola saw little overtaking, because the line into the first corner was wet offline, so it simply wasn’t possible to try and outbrake an opponent.
DRS was introduced as direct result of a fan survey that showed more overtaking was the primary thing fans wanted to see more of in F1.
F1 being F1 saw this as an engineering challenge and created a new bit of technology to deliver on the fans wishes. Reducing dependancy on aero would have delivered the same result but better - and was, I think, what the fans were actually saying (in other words F1 asked the right question in the wrong way and delivered a skewed response).
The current cars are marked improvement and heading in the right direction but IMO there is still too much dependancy on the aero which necessitates DRS in many circumstances. The trade off from having them able to follow closer is that the cars also have the footprint of a small country so there is less room to try a lunge - a problem accentuated at Imola both in terms of circuit design and weather.
How well a car travels around a track should, IMO, be governed by three things (percentages are rough approximation and open to debate):
40% driver
30% mechanical
30% aero
It would be interesting to see the odd sprint run without DRS but I think for the time being, it's still something that's needed.
Also cited by journalists who get to drive F1 cars as the one thing that impresses them the most.
F1 being F1 saw this as an engineering challenge and created a new bit of technology to deliver on the fans wishes. Reducing dependancy on aero would have delivered the same result but better - and was, I think, what the fans were actually saying (in other words F1 asked the right question in the wrong way and delivered a skewed response).
The current cars are marked improvement and heading in the right direction but IMO there is still too much dependancy on the aero which necessitates DRS in many circumstances. The trade off from having them able to follow closer is that the cars also have the footprint of a small country so there is less room to try a lunge - a problem accentuated at Imola both in terms of circuit design and weather.
How well a car travels around a track should, IMO, be governed by three things (percentages are rough approximation and open to debate):
40% driver
30% mechanical
30% aero
It would be interesting to see the odd sprint run without DRS but I think for the time being, it's still something that's needed.
Sandpit Steve said:
braking performance is the single most impressive thing about watching F1 cars in person. It doesn’t come across on the TV at all.
Absolutely this. Also cited by journalists who get to drive F1 cars as the one thing that impresses them the most.
I think that F1 has decided that it is not about pleasing the few purists. It is an entertainment show for a global audience.
No matter what we think, DRS will stay as it can provide what the audience wants to see.
I think that I would prefer, say 20, push-to-pass/defend opportunities, so drivers are required to psych each other out.
Croft would not be as freaked-out by it either.
No matter what we think, DRS will stay as it can provide what the audience wants to see.
I think that I would prefer, say 20, push-to-pass/defend opportunities, so drivers are required to psych each other out.
Croft would not be as freaked-out by it either.
Evanivitch said:
BBC F1 Podcast made a good point.
The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
Go back to drum brakes.The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
Seriously though, nobody is going to accept giving them worse brakes, just on safety grounds. A big part of this problem is that they are just too fast in the corners, so they barely even have to slow down for many corners that would require a hard brake in a normal car. Therefore the correct way to do it is to reduce the amount of downforce they have. This will increase braking distances twofold - by making the brakes less effective and by making them have to slow more for the corners because they'll have less overall grip.
People will then complain that the cars aren't fast or exciting enough to watch in the corners, but you can't have it both ways. If you make a car fast in the corners then it's obvious that the braking zones are going to be very short, which is not good for creating overtaking. This is why we have DRS now, because motorsport went down the rabbit hole of downforce.
thegreenhell said:
Seriously though, nobody is going to accept giving them worse brakes, just on safety grounds.
There's no safety concerns. The brakes would still provide sufficient performance without failing. All the cars would be the same. There's zero safety argument.I appreciate people's comments about braking performance being a huge part of it, I think we can all agree. But so is the aero IMO. And the constant manipulation of the aero rules and ham fisted things like DRS don't make for good aero development IMO.
patmahe said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I want to see drivers an inch from hitting the opposing car because they are slipstreaming that hard, I want to see last minute dives on the brakes with lock ups and sparks, real hard racing.
This would lead to incidents and crashes. Which would lead to the internet blowing up after penalties being applied, etc.Not to mention the fact that drivers can't/won't risk damage to their car like they would in the old days. This is down to the prioritisation of finishing the race and exacerbated by the cost cap.
DRS is no different from a button/switch to increase engine power for overtaking. They had this in the 80s in the form of a turbo boost control. DRS just controls when it can be used, which is a good thing in a way.
I do however think it should be activated from lap 2 and should be changed from a controlled zone to a more open choice for the driver as to when they can use it, but the amount of times should be limited in a race.
Indycar has an overtaking boost button, for example, limited to a certain number of seconds per race. That allows a driver control of how much they use and when.
Evanivitch said:
BBC F1 Podcast made a good point.
The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
That and manual gearboxes. Much better if the driver ahead misses a gear (I know this will never happen).The biggest issue is the braking zone. They're too small. The tolerance between a good pass and a bad one is tiny.
So change the brakes. Go for standard brake sizes or materials or whatever. Make the braking zone longer and you increase the overtaking without artificially having a push-to-pass system.
Good point on the brakes.
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