Estate of flux: £8k, fast, big, comfy, AWD and not ruinous

[RoVoFob]

Apologies for another similar what car thread. I’m on a mission to own lots of interesting cars - before I have to have something with a plug - and like large-engined big estates!

Over the last year I’ve had a 2006 Audi A6 4.2 V8 Avant, 2004 Volvo S60 2.4 T5 and a 2006 Volvo V70 2.5T alongside my fun car - a BMW 130i…I’ve recently sold the A6, as it felt a bit decadent with spiralling fuel costs, £630 road tax, potential big bills and a newborn to fund.

I’m again car shopping for a practical, comfy but satisfying family car. I’m not scared of cars that need a bit of money spending - predictably - on them, but don’t want something unreliable or that is likely to have regular unexpected four-figure bills. I have a bit more to spend this time, so that opens up different cars…

Key ingredients:

• £8k budget (maaaybe up to £10k for something perfect)
• Big boot with decent access (probably estate/large hatchback)
• ISOFIX/space for newborn/travel system
• Decent automatic gearbox (ideally)
• 6+ cylinder engine
• 25mpg+, petrol and ULEZ exempt
• £360 or less road tax (would ignore for something amazing)
• Four-wheel-drive
• Comfy seats
• Decent speakers

My current shortlist is a slightly weird mix of models:

• Audi A6 (C6) Avant 3.2 V6
• Audi A6 (C6) Avant 3.0 TFSI
• Audi A4 (B8) Avant 3.2 V6
• Audi S4 (B8) Avant
• Mercedes R500 (typically high tax)
• Skoda Octavia Estate mk2 1.8 TSI/1.8 TSI 4x4 (four cylinders and potentially front-wheel-drive)
• Skoda Superb Estate 3.6 V6 (high tax)
• Volkswagen Passat CC 3.6 V6 (high tax)
• Volvo V70 3.0 T6 (high tax)

Are there any cars there that jump out as particularly good or bad options?

I’d like to steer clear of unnecessary liabilities like air suspension and panoramic sunroofs where possible, but do want something big and satisfying to drive (doesn’t have to be sporty, just offer a good mix of smoothness, refinement, precise steering and reasonable body control and damping) that offers lots of feel-good factor.

Thanks…again!

[ZX10R NIN]

VXR Insignia apart from the high tax it ticks a lot of boxes:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111239...

Auto:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203093...

[RoVoFob]

ZX10R NIN said:

VXR Insignia apart from the high tax it ticks a lot of boxes:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111239...

Auto:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203093...

Thanks. I did a lot of reading up on the VXR after your previous recommendations, but just can’t make my mind up. Hate the cabin and rubbish visibility, but think the drive would be spot on - potentially with a torque-boosting remap.

Haven’t yet found one close enough to view, but that could be helpful. Oddly, though, this is the Vauxhall that grabs me…https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284758341954?hash=item424ceb7942:g:z4gAAOSwIl5iLYz4

[M.F.D]

What about a Legacy STI? Misses the 6+ cylinders, but ticks a good few boxes.

Nissan Stagea RSFour? I think this ticks most of your options also.

Toyota Caldina GT4? Again, misses the 6+ cylinders but a good shout perhaps.

[RoVoFob]

M.F.D said:

What about a Legacy STI? Misses the 6+ cylinders, but ticks a good few boxes.

Nissan Stagea RSFour? I think this ticks most of your options also.

Toyota Caldina GT4? Again, misses the 6+ cylinders but a good shout perhaps.

Thanks. I had a Legacy 3.0R Spec B two years back which was great and had six glorious cylinders. Like the idea of the Legacy STi, but I found the seats and speakers in my old one abysmal and imagine they’d be similar.

The Stagea and Caldina appeal on paper, but after a V8 A6, I think they’d feel like a big step backwards. I’d be wary about finding parts, too. Don’t know if that’s a real problem or not…

[M.F.D]

RoVoFob said:

Thanks. I had a Legacy 3.0R Spec B two years back which was great and had six glorious cylinders. Like the idea of the Legacy STi, but I found the seats and speakers in my old one abysmal and imagine they’d be similar.

The Stagea and Caldina appeal on paper, but after a V8 A6, I think they’d feel like a big step backwards. I’d be wary about finding parts, too. Don’t know if that’s a real problem or not…

They would make up for it in other ways - ie. more fun to drive and a load more exclusive. Parts shouldn't be an issue really, as they share loads of bits with other Nissan/Toyota models.

Total odd ball option would be a P2 Volvo XC70 2.5T. 5pot noises and Volvo solid-ness.

[RoVoFob]

M.F.D said:

They would make up for it in other ways - ie. more fun to drive and a load more exclusive. Parts shouldn't be an issue really, as they share loads of bits with other Nissan/Toyota models.

Total odd ball option would be a P2 Volvo XC70 2.5T. 5pot noises and Volvo solid-ness.

Were it not a family car, I’d agree, but comfort, refinement and quality are more important for me now.

Funnily enough, I have been considering an XC70 3.2 with Dynaudio speakers. It’s not quick but still thirsty and costly-to-tax, so would have to be supremely comfy. As for the P2, I think I’ve done my time with an S60 and V70! Did enjoy them, though - especially the S60.

[M.F.D]

RoVoFob said:

Were it not a family car, I’d agree, but comfort, refinement and quality are more important for me now.

Funnily enough, I have been considering an XC70 3.2 with Dynaudio speakers. It’s not quick but still thirsty and costly-to-tax, so would have to be supremely comfy. As for the P2, I think I’ve done my time with an S60 and V70! Did enjoy them, though - especially the S60.

Fair enough. I am watching this thread with interest, as I am in a not to dissimilar position to you and looking at replacing my XC70 D5 with something interesting.

[ZX10R NIN]

RoVoFob said:

Thanks. I did a lot of reading up on the VXR after your previous recommendations, but just can’t make my mind up. Hate the cabin and rubbish visibility, but think the drive would be spot on - potentially with a torque-boosting remap.

Haven’t yet found one close enough to view, but that could be helpful. Oddly, though, this is the Vauxhall that grabs me…https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284758341954?hash=item424ceb7942:g:z4gAAOSwIl5iLYz4

That does seem to be a very clean one but they're not AWD.

[RoVoFob]

ZX10R NIN said:

That does seem to be a very clean one but they're not AWD.

Yes, I realise. Not many people would bend their own rules for a Vauxhall Vectra, but I might.

[21ATS]

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201241...

[RoVoFob]

21ATS said:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201241...

I like the idea of this but seems a little small and thirsty/high tax for the performance to me.

Stumbled upon this Saab earlier which caught my attention. Not right for me, but could be a lovely, unusual cruiser:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204204...

[RoVoFob]

Having a rethink of my original shortlist…the bolded ones are my current favourites and I don’t think the crossed out ones are right for me (the Octavia would feel like too big a step down after the A6 and the V70 isn’t supposed to be particularly comfortable or good to drive).

• Audi A6 (C6) Avant 3.2 V6 (high tax post-06)
• Audi A6 (C6) Avant 3.0 TFSI
• Audi A4 (B8) Avant 3.2 V6
• Audi S4 (B8) Avant
• Mercedes R500 (high tax post-06)
• Skoda Octavia Estate mk2 1.8 TSI/1.8 TSI 4x4
• Skoda Superb Estate 3.6 V6 (high tax)
• Volkswagen Passat CC 3.6 V6 (high tax)
• Volvo V70 3.0 T6 (high tax)

Does anyone know the answers to the following?

• Is the R-Class comfy and smooth enough to warrant the fact it’s not sporty? How reliable are these?
• Are the timing chains on 3.2 A6s and 3.2 FSI A4s a huge liability?
• Are the Superbs particularly comfy or good to drive?
• Is access to the Passat CC’s boot good enough to get a big pushchair/bassinet in?

Any insights gratefully received. Oh, and please remind me how thirsty and expensive to run the S6 5.2 V10 and Cayenne 4.8 S are, so I stop thinking about these. Thanks!

Edited by RoVoFob on Friday 22 April 19:20

[bobsavage789]

I faced a similar scenario about 6 months ago: I had a limited budget due to incoming toy, and a 7 month old…

I went with a 2005 Jaguar XJ8 Sovereign, which had 92k on the clock. Now hear me out before pooh-poohing it immediately:

Good points:
- very (like seriously) comfortable. It’s like driving around in an armchair, even though one of the rear bushes needs replacing
- NA V8 (dying breed etc etc if that matters to you)
- massive boot: easily swallows all the baby paraphernalia
- enough rear space for baby seat and rear passenger
- *touch wood* famously reliable drivetrain
- stupidly cheap to insure: my wife pays more than double for her ‘69 plate Volvo S60, despite us having very similar risk profiles (I’d imagine)
- surprisingly fun to drive: if one so chooses, it’s quite straightforward to kick the rear out
- 35mpg on a long run (I’m imprint that in a knackered old V8, anyway)
- easy to upgrade to Bluetooth music/full CarPlay etc if that’s important
- mine has the Alpine sound system which I find very impressive, especially compared to some more modern “premium” offerings

Bad points:
- I do a 20 minute/7 mile commute through suburbia, and I average 20mpg on that
- image (again: might not be important to you) is a bit ‘Old man’
- back seats don’t go down
- it’s not AWD as per your criteria


Too end of your budget actually gets you into a X351 shape, though they are infamous for their electrical gremlins…

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203213...

Edited by bobsavage789 on Friday 22 April 20:22

[RoVoFob]

bobsavage789 said:

I faced a similar scenario about 6 months ago: I had a limited budget due to incoming toy, and a 7 month old…

I went with a 2005 Jaguar XJ8 Sovereign, which had 92k on the clock. Now hear me out before pooh-poohing it immediately:

Good points:
- very (like seriously) comfortable. It’s like driving around in an armchair, even though one of the rear bushes needs replacing
- NA V8 (dying breed etc etc if that matters to you)
- massive boot: easily swallows all the baby paraphernalia
- enough rear space for baby seat and rear passenger
- *touch wood* famously reliable drivetrain
- stupidly cheap to insure: my wife pays more than double for her ‘69 plate Volvo S60, despite us having very similar risk profiles (I’d imagine)
- surprisingly fun to drive: if one so chooses, it’s quite straightforward to kick the rear out
- 35mpg on a long run (I’m imprint that in a knackered old V8, anyway)
- easy to upgrade to Bluetooth music/full CarPlay etc if that’s important

Bad points:
- I do a 20 minute/7 mile commute through suburbia, and I average 20mpg on that
- image (again: might not be important to you) is a bit ‘Old man’
- back seats don’t go down

Funnily enough, I was looking at X350s earlier today. Don’t mind the image and like the lightweight luxury format a lot.

The sheer length and boot format/lack of folding rear seats are the things that put me off and I’d probably have a Passat CC instead as a result as the boot looks a bit deeper and the seats fold (I’m not comparing them other than their saloon format).

From what you’ve said, maybe I’m underestimating the XJ boot, though. Hmm.

[bobsavage789]

RoVoFob said:

Funnily enough, I was looking at X350s earlier today. Don’t mind the image and like the lightweight luxury format a lot.

The sheer length and boot format/lack of folding rear seats are the things that put me off and I’d probably have a Passat CC instead as a result as the boot looks a bit deeper and the seats fold (I’m not comparing them other than their saloon format).

From what you’ve said, maybe I’m underestimating the XJ boot, though. Hmm.

I suppose the only way you’ll know for sure is to “test drive” the boot with some baby stuff.

Or, if you’d like to know before making a trip to view one, I’ll happily take a picture of our pram in my boot (not a euphemism!).

Let me know

[RoVoFob]

bobsavage789 said:

I suppose the only way you’ll know for sure is to “test drive” the boot with some baby stuff.

Or, if you’d like to know before making a trip to view one, I’ll happily take a picture of our pram in my boot (not a euphemism!).

Let me know

True. I remember reading your straight six and V8 article now. I had both of those cylinder layouts, but very different cars.

If you can easily enough grab a picture, that’d be much appreciated. Thanks.

[QJumper]

Maybe not quite what you're looking for but last year I was in a similar position in that I wanted something large, practical, reliable, comfortable and fairly luxurious, at around £10k.

A quick look on Autotrader for cars that ticked those boxes, and were also ULEZ compliant, threw up a whole host of Lexus RX's of various types and prices. In the end I settled on a 3rd gen RX450h and can honestly say I'm very happy with it. Road tax is only £160, it's a 3.5 V6 hybrid and quite quick for its size. I average over 30mpg, and it scores highly on reliabilty surveys. The CVT transmission is a bit marmite, but I quite like it.

Not sure why Lexus don't get mentioned much, and admit that previously I'd not really considered them, but have been pleasantly surprised. Granted they may not be as fun and sporty as some other cars, but are hard to beat for relaxed comfort.

[RoVoFob]

QJumper said:

Maybe not quite what you're looking for but last year I was in a similar position in that I wanted something large, practical, reliable, comfortable and fairly luxurious, at around £10k.

A quick look on Autotrader for cars that ticked those boxes, and were also ULEZ compliant, threw up a whole host of Lexus RX's of various types and prices. In the end I settled on a 3rd gen RX450h and can honestly say I'm very happy with it. Road tax is only £160, it's a 3.5 V6 hybrid and quite quick for its size. I average over 30mpg, and it scores highly on reliabilty surveys. The CVT transmission is a bit marmite, but I quite like it.

Not sure why Lexus don't get mentioned much, and admit that previously I'd not really considered them, but have been pleasantly surprised. Granted they may not be as fun and sporty as some other cars, but are hard to beat for relaxed comfort.

Thanks. Another one of my maybes.

I’d quite like a Lexus but I find the RX ugly inside and out personally - especially the 400h which is more in budget.

CVT isn’t too much of a problem for me with a V6 that sounds alright. Might rethink if any particularly good value ones pop up, but the 450h is at the very top of my budget. Think I’d go V70/XC70 T6 or 3.2 if I was going to go down the maximum comfort route, though they have their issues - high tax mainly.

[RoVoFob]

My shortlist is getting shorter:

• Audi A6 (C6) Avant 3.2 V6 (high tax post-06)
• Audi A6 (C6) Avant 3.0 TFSI
• Audi A4 (B8) Avant 3.2 V6
• Mercedes R500 (high tax post-06)
• Volkswagen Passat CC 3.6 V6 (high tax)

The A4 Avant 3.2 V6 stands out for me, being a generation newer than the others, with the best speakers from what I’ve read, and performance/economy and comfort/handling balance. I really enjoyed driving a cheap S4 Avant manual a few weeks back, though that had trashed bodywork, which put me off, so this seems like a cheaper alternative.

Are the timing chains a big liability on 3.2 FSI A4s and 3.2 A6s? I’ve read lots of horror stories online, but hard to gauge the likelihood of having an issue…

Have found a very tidy A6 3.0 TFSI, but it’s a saloon. Not sure how good boot access is, but volume is barely any less than the Avant. Similarly, is the Passat CC usable when it comes to fitting a reasonable large pushchair/ bassinet in (in two halves)…anyone have any experience of either of these?

The R-Class is also a tricky one to gauge as some people love them and others hate them. I I’m intrigued how comfy/pleasant to drive the R500 is and whether these are reliable - especially the air suspension. Anyone driven one?

Thanks.