Williams and budget caps
Discussion
With caps on expenditure, how long can Williams go on with massive repairs to their cars each race?
You might think I'm being a bit harsh on Latifi with this little cartoon, but you'd be wrong.
https://youtu.be/WfvJW8bgE1w
You might think I'm being a bit harsh on Latifi with this little cartoon, but you'd be wrong.
https://youtu.be/WfvJW8bgE1w
Interestingly that video led me to look at one where he ran off the track on the last lap in spain . Seems to either lose concentration or just go gungho for a bit of excitement at the end of a race.
He probably did something similar in that fateful last race in 2021.
Team seems to be a bit weak on managing anyone that brings in the big bucks. And they are the good sort of billionares not the nasty ones. And he seems like a nice lad.Dont want to lose the latifi money.
He probably did something similar in that fateful last race in 2021.
Team seems to be a bit weak on managing anyone that brings in the big bucks. And they are the good sort of billionares not the nasty ones. And he seems like a nice lad.Dont want to lose the latifi money.
The problem is that, now there’s a budget cap in place, it doesn’t matter how much extra cash he brings the team. More repairs to the car directly leads to less spending on making it go faster.
If they can get the team’s income income up to the budget cap, they don’t need a driver to pay for his seat and can choose on merit - as Oscar Piastri continues to wave from the sidelines.
If they can get the team’s income income up to the budget cap, they don’t need a driver to pay for his seat and can choose on merit - as Oscar Piastri continues to wave from the sidelines.
Williams vs a top team still lose out heavily in budget terms sadly. Yes, both teams are capped at the same level.. But in reality lower teams can only just about scrape the budget together including paying their drivers - and driver pay isn't included in the cap.. so they either need 'not the finest' drivers or to take a driver that effectively pays his way one way or another.
Even if Williams only pay their drivers £5m a year combined, that's still £5m a year less they can spend on their car than a team that's got more cash to throw around. Same in terms of TP pay too.
There's also the predictable talent loss in all departments with Williams during the many years of poor results and finances. So kind starting on the back foot there too, vs a team that has been more stable and retained/developed talent.
And as ever, do we know if Dorilton want to push and be bold and gamble on trying to make the team great again? Or do they literally just want their asset to gain value and become reliably profitable?
Even if Williams only pay their drivers £5m a year combined, that's still £5m a year less they can spend on their car than a team that's got more cash to throw around. Same in terms of TP pay too.
There's also the predictable talent loss in all departments with Williams during the many years of poor results and finances. So kind starting on the back foot there too, vs a team that has been more stable and retained/developed talent.
And as ever, do we know if Dorilton want to push and be bold and gamble on trying to make the team great again? Or do they literally just want their asset to gain value and become reliably profitable?
HustleRussell said:
A bit of perspective is needed sometimes. Latifi really isn't that bad- he was getting closer to George's times last year and will be trying not to be beaten too comprehensively by Albon.
I think what we're seeing is a 'not bad' driver who is pushing like f
k recently.
In previous seasons, if the money they received for allowing Lafiti to drive for them was more than the cost of the damage he causes, then it's fair enough. I doubt there is a queue of sponsor-rich drivers at their door. However, my concern is that their much needed budget is going on repairs rather than research. Quotes in percentages of $million are bandied about, and he done it three times this season; more than once a race.I think what we're seeing is a 'not bad' driver who is pushing like f
k recently. Piginapoke said:
I don't think Williams will be paying Lafitti a penny, as a pay driver.
The issue for Williams is that it will be behind in personnel and equipment after difficult years and it will take time to catch up.
He has sponsorship. I imagine some of that goes directly to him as 'salary' with the rest, quite possibly the biggest part, going to the team.The issue for Williams is that it will be behind in personnel and equipment after difficult years and it will take time to catch up.
I think George was paid something like 500k then up to £1m. Although by that point his popularity was undoubtedly encouraging sponsors to hand over way more.
The team is owned by an investment company.. The only time they're going to sign a really gifted driver is if Merc need to park one there or they happen to get incredibly lucky with their selection of a driver ahead of an F1 career.
It's far easier to make the team profitable by choosing a driver that brings money in, as opposed to costing money. Certainly far easier than worrying about performance and relying on extra championship money.
It's far easier to make the team profitable by choosing a driver that brings money in, as opposed to costing money. Certainly far easier than worrying about performance and relying on extra championship money.
faa77 said:
Surely Williams would just ask for more money from his Dad to cover the damages?
If they had sense his contract would demand a fixed amount plus a variable linked to cost of damages?
I suppose it's possible that's in the contract - never heard of such a thing though .. And if they're already getting more money by giving him the seat than they could elsewhere, then I'd guess they can't really demand more money.If they had sense his contract would demand a fixed amount plus a variable linked to cost of damages?
I know it's a lot of cost to cover but it's not multiple millions. From a purely financial POV they have the right person in the car, even if he's a bit of a clown. Kind of hard to care as much about the new Williams as the old, because I'm pretty sure a lot of it is purely financial now.
TheDeuce said:
I suppose it's possible that's in the contract - never heard of such a thing though .. And if they're already getting more money by giving him the seat than they could elsewhere, then I'd guess they can't really demand more money.
I know it's a lot of cost to cover but it's not multiple millions. From a purely financial POV they have the right person in the car, even if he's a bit of a clown. Kind of hard to care as much about the new Williams as the old, because I'm pretty sure a lot of it is purely financial now.
Damage costs sent to the driver (or insured against) is normal in junior series, if not in F1. I know it's a lot of cost to cover but it's not multiple millions. From a purely financial POV they have the right person in the car, even if he's a bit of a clown. Kind of hard to care as much about the new Williams as the old, because I'm pretty sure a lot of it is purely financial now.
Irrespective of who pays for it, damage still has to come from spending covered by the budget cap.
My totally uneducated guess, says that there’s at least a couple of million spent on fixing Latifi’s car in the first three events. Only 20 events to go.
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
I suppose it's possible that's in the contract - never heard of such a thing though .. And if they're already getting more money by giving him the seat than they could elsewhere, then I'd guess they can't really demand more money.
I know it's a lot of cost to cover but it's not multiple millions. From a purely financial POV they have the right person in the car, even if he's a bit of a clown. Kind of hard to care as much about the new Williams as the old, because I'm pretty sure a lot of it is purely financial now.
Damage costs sent to the driver (or insured against) is normal in junior series, if not in F1. I know it's a lot of cost to cover but it's not multiple millions. From a purely financial POV they have the right person in the car, even if he's a bit of a clown. Kind of hard to care as much about the new Williams as the old, because I'm pretty sure a lot of it is purely financial now.
Irrespective of who pays for it, damage still has to come from spending covered by the budget cap.
My totally uneducated guess, says that there’s at least a couple of million spent on fixing Latifi’s car in the first three events. Only 20 events to go.
It's mostly material costs which are many thousands per CF part but not millions - and I expect some bought in components from Merc that represent the 'extra' costs.
TheDeuce said:
I doubt it will be that much in budget terms. They could easily say that's how much it costs with man hours cost attributed to the repairs and forming of new parts - but those people and facilities are already within the budget regardless of how busy he makes them.
It's mostly material costs which are many thousands per CF part but not millions - and I expect some bought in components from Merc that represent the 'extra' costs.
The accountancy of F1 is going to be an interesting discussion topic this year. It's mostly material costs which are many thousands per CF part but not millions - and I expect some bought in components from Merc that represent the 'extra' costs.
The carbon factory won’t be sitting idle, so any replacement parts are either on overtime or at the expense of bringing planned upgrades to the car.
The actual marginal cost of the replacement components, will of course be considerably lower than the cost of them if the team were selling, which would you include development costs.
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
I doubt it will be that much in budget terms. They could easily say that's how much it costs with man hours cost attributed to the repairs and forming of new parts - but those people and facilities are already within the budget regardless of how busy he makes them.
It's mostly material costs which are many thousands per CF part but not millions - and I expect some bought in components from Merc that represent the 'extra' costs.
The accountancy of F1 is going to be an interesting discussion topic this year. It's mostly material costs which are many thousands per CF part but not millions - and I expect some bought in components from Merc that represent the 'extra' costs.
The carbon factory won’t be sitting idle, so any replacement parts are either on overtime or at the expense of bringing planned upgrades to the car.
The actual marginal cost of the replacement components, will of course be considerably lower than the cost of them if the team were selling, which would you include development costs.
I don't mind the commercial reality of pay drivers - but my god it's tedious and awkward watching the TP find pleasant things to say each time they screw up rather than call the cash cow out for being a tit.
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