911 to go back to NA engine
Discussion
Saw this on Car’s website. Not entirely surprising after they did the same with the Cayman GTS 4.0. Now I’m tempted to cancel my order for the latter in case a 911 Carrera T with the 4L NA comes along:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-offic...
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-offic...
esotericar said:
Smoke and mirrors comes to mind.
I've lost count how many times somebody at Porsche says something isnt going to happen, then it does.
Most recently the GT3 engine in the GT4RS!!!
They have u-turned on stuff, for sure.
But can't think of an example of being presented with direct question about a specific car /spec rumoured for the very near future, that car being categorically denied, and then turning up six months later. If you'd asked Walliser if the GT3 engine would go into the Cayman six months ago, I don't think you'd have got a really specific statement that it isn't happening.
Of course, the lower power 4.0 into 911 may still happen, may be announced in a few months. Doesn't seem hugely likely, though. It's been specifically and flatly denied on numerous occasions rather than giving political non answers / dodging the question.
But can't think of an example of being presented with direct question about a specific car /spec rumoured for the very near future, that car being categorically denied, and then turning up six months later. If you'd asked Walliser if the GT3 engine would go into the Cayman six months ago, I don't think you'd have got a really specific statement that it isn't happening.
Of course, the lower power 4.0 into 911 may still happen, may be announced in a few months. Doesn't seem hugely likely, though. It's been specifically and flatly denied on numerous occasions rather than giving political non answers / dodging the question.
I would have thought the regulations have in fact swung in NA’s favour? The turbos only really made sense for CO2 fudging which is not possible anymore. Plus with the end of times approaching why not just go out with a bang with a nice 4l naturally aspirated engine. Seeing as it’s sitting on the shelf anyhow.
DMZ said:
I would have thought the regulations have in fact swung in NA’s favour? The turbos only really made sense for CO2 fudging which is not possible anymore. Plus with the end of times approaching why not just go out with a bang with a nice 4l naturally aspirated engine. Seeing as it’s sitting on the shelf anyhow.
As a company, Porsche has to meet an overall CO2 average on all products, the GT3 makes it very hard work for them to achieve this, and another reason why they are so limited. They only way they would put the NA 4.0ltr engine in a main stream model is by lower it’s emissions, maybe in the 992.2 they may use it with a hybrid helper. But they have said it won’t have an electric only range. Also they would have to keep the performance similar to the out going model, lack of torque in the NA model may cause it an issue. I love the idea, but….
I was hoping Porsche would end up with a strategy like is: We are damned good at EVs and we are damned good at ICE. Because we are damned good at EVs we don't need to create half-way houses with turbos and fake sounds and all that jazz because we can absorb the CO2 outputs on the proper stuff with the EVs so we will now have naturally aspirated goodness focused more on engagement for as long as we can with turbo models for proper big power numbers and we will continue to backfill with more EVs as per market and regulatory demand.
Corkys said:
As a company, Porsche has to meet an overall CO2 average on all products, the GT3 makes it very hard work for them to achieve this, and another reason why they are so limited. They only way they would put the NA 4.0ltr engine in a main stream model is by lower it’s emissions, maybe in the 992.2 they may use it with a hybrid helper. But they have said it won’t have an electric only range. Also they would have to keep the performance similar to the out going model, lack of torque in the NA model may cause it an issue.
I love the idea, but….
Except the GT3 really isn't 'so limited' at all, is it? Not when you look at the actual numbers.I love the idea, but….
They made nearly 10,000 991.2 GT3 and around 5,000 991.2 GT3 RS, for instance. By comparison it was a bit more than 2,000 each for 997.1 and 997.2 GT3 and about 1,000 997.1 RS and 2,000 997.2 RS (plus 600 4.0 RS). 996 was under 5,000 combined for all GT3 models - .1, .2 and .2 RS.
Also, Porsche only has to meet the CO2 average in certain markets (eg not in the US) and even then it can choose to pay a fine and / or swap / share CO2 average with other companies in the EU.
In so far as there are limits, would think it's more about maintaining a perception of exclusivity and capital investment. Tooling up and booking capacity with suppliers for, say, 30,000 units a year would be significant. And at the same time it would mean you could just buy one no problem and the cars would depreciate. And then suddenly nobody would want one. So, ironically, making more available could well actually mean lower sales. No doubt Porsche has highly paid people working out exactly how many strikes just the right balance.
Anyway, don't think there's much evidence that fleet CO2 is the limiting factor for GT3 cars. They sell an awful, awful lot of them by any reasonable measure.
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