Sonos amps v Amp plus Sonos ports
Discussion
We are finalising our full home renovation and doing the more fun bits like AV.
I had Sonos kit at last place, yes it’s expensive but it works well and operates well. Also I have accumulated enough Sonos kit (soundbar, sub, a beam, surround Play 1s etc) to make sense to continue and add to it.
So house will:
3 TV zones downstairs (kitchen extension, front reception, rear reception/snug)
Possible TV in study
TV in bed 1
TV in bed 2
There will be 6 rooms / zones with ceiling speakers.
Initially I had looked at 6 Sonos amps at £600 each
AV guy now recommending an 8 channel amp amp (Monitor Audio IA150-8C Eight Channel Installation Amplifier) plus 6 Sonos ports instead, which will end up shut the same cost but will have better sound quality and take up much less space on the AV rack
Has anyone been through same thought process and decision?
I had Sonos kit at last place, yes it’s expensive but it works well and operates well. Also I have accumulated enough Sonos kit (soundbar, sub, a beam, surround Play 1s etc) to make sense to continue and add to it.
So house will:
3 TV zones downstairs (kitchen extension, front reception, rear reception/snug)
Possible TV in study
TV in bed 1
TV in bed 2
There will be 6 rooms / zones with ceiling speakers.
Initially I had looked at 6 Sonos amps at £600 each
AV guy now recommending an 8 channel amp amp (Monitor Audio IA150-8C Eight Channel Installation Amplifier) plus 6 Sonos ports instead, which will end up shut the same cost but will have better sound quality and take up much less space on the AV rack
Has anyone been through same thought process and decision?
1) I'm not convinced by any ceiling speakers I've heard.
2) my sister had some terribly complex multi-room streaming system, we thought about it but my Wife and I never really got to any agreement as to exactly what we wanted it to do. There are a lot of permutations about different music or TV in different rooms but the need for one room to inter-act with another is pretty limited.
IT does make a difference that our house is quite soundproof from one room to the next, so it's not a big deal if we're each in our offices watching/listening to the same thing out of sync.
So upgrading the kitchen from just having a pair of speakers connected to the lounge HiFi, to having it's own amp and a BlueTooth receiver is as far as it went. We get music etc from PCs in the offices and the garage., or I plug my phone in. I have a RasPi based Wifi music server, which was fun to get working but now gathers dust as it seems to be a solution to a problem I'm oblivious to having.
Mostly I want to watch TV, or get music off the web or from my collection and spray it out of the nearest set of speakers. What's the rest of it for?
People need to answer that for themselves (And their wives etc, I'm curious but not demanding to be convinced of anything. So apologies if I sound critical. If you're clear what you want it to do, people can help you make it do that.
The interconnect thing that does bug me, is very occasionally, there's something recorded on the upstairs TV's Humax box and I'd like to watch it downstairs..... In a previous century, I could have carried the VHS tape downstairs,,,, https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/12.gif
2) my sister had some terribly complex multi-room streaming system, we thought about it but my Wife and I never really got to any agreement as to exactly what we wanted it to do. There are a lot of permutations about different music or TV in different rooms but the need for one room to inter-act with another is pretty limited.
IT does make a difference that our house is quite soundproof from one room to the next, so it's not a big deal if we're each in our offices watching/listening to the same thing out of sync.
So upgrading the kitchen from just having a pair of speakers connected to the lounge HiFi, to having it's own amp and a BlueTooth receiver is as far as it went. We get music etc from PCs in the offices and the garage., or I plug my phone in. I have a RasPi based Wifi music server, which was fun to get working but now gathers dust as it seems to be a solution to a problem I'm oblivious to having.
Mostly I want to watch TV, or get music off the web or from my collection and spray it out of the nearest set of speakers. What's the rest of it for?
People need to answer that for themselves (And their wives etc, I'm curious but not demanding to be convinced of anything. So apologies if I sound critical. If you're clear what you want it to do, people can help you make it do that.
The interconnect thing that does bug me, is very occasionally, there's something recorded on the upstairs TV's Humax box and I'd like to watch it downstairs..... In a previous century, I could have carried the VHS tape downstairs,,,, https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/12.gif
An 8 Channel Amp would only run 4 stereo zones, so you would either need a pair of them, or switch to MA's 12Ch amp.
It is a shame you have Sonos in place already as MA do a great little 4 zone BlueSound / BlueOS streamer which is better, but i understand the reasoning.
It should certaily sound better than Sonos Amp's but how much will depend subjective. You can also go a long way with quality with your choice of in-ceiling speakers, their size and if they are enclosed behind them (in the ceiling void). Your AV guy should certainly be telling you need fire and accoustic hoods in the majority if not all you rooms.
In-Ceilings certainly have thier place of background listerning and for 90 of people, that is all they want. For the other 10 that are critial (in more than one way) listeners then trad hifi is the direction to go.
HTH
It is a shame you have Sonos in place already as MA do a great little 4 zone BlueSound / BlueOS streamer which is better, but i understand the reasoning.
It should certaily sound better than Sonos Amp's but how much will depend subjective. You can also go a long way with quality with your choice of in-ceiling speakers, their size and if they are enclosed behind them (in the ceiling void). Your AV guy should certainly be telling you need fire and accoustic hoods in the majority if not all you rooms.
In-Ceilings certainly have thier place of background listerning and for 90 of people, that is all they want. For the other 10 that are critial (in more than one way) listeners then trad hifi is the direction to go.
HTH
Adam. said:
A brilliantly PH answer/critique.Any answers to my actual question gratefully received
You're talking of a few TVs in different rooms in the same paragraph as a distributed audio system.
Reminds me of one or two military hardware/software projects.
Trying to design the operation around the irrelevant stuff they'd already bought.
VEX said:
An 8 Channel Amp would only run 4 stereo zones, so you would either need a pair of them, or switch to MA's 12Ch amp.
It is a shame you have Sonos in place already as MA do a great little 4 zone BlueSound / BlueOS streamer which is better, but i understand the reasoning.
It should certaily sound better than Sonos Amp's but how much will depend subjective. You can also go a long way with quality with your choice of in-ceiling speakers, their size and if they are enclosed behind them (in the ceiling void). Your AV guy should certainly be telling you need fire and accoustic hoods in the majority if not all you rooms.
In-Ceilings certainly have thier place of background listerning and for 90 of people, that is all they want. For the other 10 that are critial (in more than one way) listeners then trad hifi is the direction to go.
Thank you, that is helpfulIt is a shame you have Sonos in place already as MA do a great little 4 zone BlueSound / BlueOS streamer which is better, but i understand the reasoning.
It should certaily sound better than Sonos Amp's but how much will depend subjective. You can also go a long way with quality with your choice of in-ceiling speakers, their size and if they are enclosed behind them (in the ceiling void). Your AV guy should certainly be telling you need fire and accoustic hoods in the majority if not all you rooms.
In-Ceilings certainly have thier place of background listerning and for 90 of people, that is all they want. For the other 10 that are critial (in more than one way) listeners then trad hifi is the direction to go.
Many reasons for going the ceiling speaker route note least space restrictions and aesthetics (i.e.don't want floor standing or wall speakers), plus this is for general listening and not ultra audiophile quality.
Current spec for ceiling speakers are MA C265-FX so nothing mega but hopefully decent enough
We have a mix of Sonos Amps in some rooms and Sonos Ports plus amps in others.
At the simplest level: get the Amps because you can control the music queue plus the volume from one app. If you have Port plus audio amp, yes, your best bet for sound quality is to set the Port to a fixed volume and control volume via the audio amp, which means juggling two apps. It doesn’t sound like a big thing but it’s a bit of a pain.
If you are thinking about ceiling speakers you really should be thinking about a sub to go with them, as they will lack a bottom end.
At the simplest level: get the Amps because you can control the music queue plus the volume from one app. If you have Port plus audio amp, yes, your best bet for sound quality is to set the Port to a fixed volume and control volume via the audio amp, which means juggling two apps. It doesn’t sound like a big thing but it’s a bit of a pain.
If you are thinking about ceiling speakers you really should be thinking about a sub to go with them, as they will lack a bottom end.
BlackWidow13 said:
We have a mix of Sonos Amps in some rooms and Sonos Ports plus amps in others.
At the simplest level: get the Amps because you can control the music queue plus the volume from one app. If you have Port plus audio amp, yes, your best bet for sound quality is to set the Port to a fixed volume and control volume via the audio amp, which means juggling two apps. It doesn’t sound like a big thing but it’s a bit of a pain.
This is excellent timing as I am meeting AV guy this evening to discuss options as nothing set in stone yet. Agree that sounds annnoying.At the simplest level: get the Amps because you can control the music queue plus the volume from one app. If you have Port plus audio amp, yes, your best bet for sound quality is to set the Port to a fixed volume and control volume via the audio amp, which means juggling two apps. It doesn’t sound like a big thing but it’s a bit of a pain.
One option I guess is to use Sonos set up for TV setups and use MA kit and software for room music and ceiling speakers, but I prefer the convenience of one solution for all, plus it could get messy if we decide to use ceiling speakers as surrounds in a couple of rooms
The Sonos UI is excellent IMO
Adam. said:
The Sonos UI is excellent IMO
Just pray they dont want to change the app and it kicks off the next layer of old gen kit.I and many of my customers were not particularly early adopters but have been screwed by the debacle of moving to the S1 (1st Gen) app.
For speakers the FX is an odd choice, MA is a good range though.
Adam. said:
Why is the FX an odd choice? And what you choose instead.
AV guy said 3rd party UI is best and it syncs with Sonos and MA and will also do IoT and operate heating/water and security cameras, so no issue with controlling sound and music lists
Yes, that is a way around it, but adds a whole bunch of cost to the system, when you may be able to just live with apps for different systems, as they are rarely intergrated into each other. This is what 95% of my clients do. AV guy said 3rd party UI is best and it syncs with Sonos and MA and will also do IoT and operate heating/water and security cameras, so no issue with controlling sound and music lists
So you are going with a hybrid Sonos, Montior Audio Streamer or just the Monitor Audio Amp? Do you have a price for the control side of things yet.
The MA FX range of On-Wall and In-Ceiling are Bi-Pole and Di-Pole Speakers are specifically used for rear and side channel surround sound systems.
Basically they use the a pair of speakers, run from the same source but firing 90deg perpendicular to each other. With Bi-Pole, they are usually very slightly out of phase with each other, causing a very wide dispersion effect and a very large expansive sound in the middle where they cross over.
Di-Pole's run fully 180Deg out of phase with each other, causing a cancelling effect in the middle where the two signals meet. Where potentially you could hear nothing!!.
Using this speaker in either format for standard stereo is going to create some very odd audio effects either with the sound ebbing and flowing as you move around the room (in and out of Null points) or with weird spatial effects caused by the bi-pole dual tweeter arrangement.
These can be very good in a surround sound environment / requirement as rear and side effects channels, but not as main listening channels.
Stick with Montor Audio's C265/280 or even C365/380's or my personal fav at the moment, the R63/83 OSD Black range (I used to install MA, then Sonance and now the OSD's)
Hope that helps.
Basically they use the a pair of speakers, run from the same source but firing 90deg perpendicular to each other. With Bi-Pole, they are usually very slightly out of phase with each other, causing a very wide dispersion effect and a very large expansive sound in the middle where they cross over.
Di-Pole's run fully 180Deg out of phase with each other, causing a cancelling effect in the middle where the two signals meet. Where potentially you could hear nothing!!.
Using this speaker in either format for standard stereo is going to create some very odd audio effects either with the sound ebbing and flowing as you move around the room (in and out of Null points) or with weird spatial effects caused by the bi-pole dual tweeter arrangement.
These can be very good in a surround sound environment / requirement as rear and side effects channels, but not as main listening channels.
Stick with Montor Audio's C265/280 or even C365/380's or my personal fav at the moment, the R63/83 OSD Black range (I used to install MA, then Sonance and now the OSD's)
Hope that helps.
Adam. said:
Thanks Vex (I am an old client of yours btw)
The ceiling speakers are possibly going to be used as surrounds in two rooms.
When used for music they will all be playing as mono not stereo.
Would that change your view ?
Depend how much you value your music quality over movie sound. The ceiling speakers are possibly going to be used as surrounds in two rooms.
When used for music they will all be playing as mono not stereo.
Would that change your view ?
And if this is still part of a sonos set up, i wouldnt nessarily waste money on them
OutInTheShed said:
1) I'm not convinced by any ceiling speakers I've heard.
2) my sister had some terribly complex multi-room streaming system, we thought about it but my Wife and I never really got to any agreement as to exactly what we wanted it to do. There are a lot of permutations about different music or TV in different rooms but the need for one room to inter-act with another is pretty limited.
I agree with you 100% notwithstanding the push-back from OP.2) my sister had some terribly complex multi-room streaming system, we thought about it but my Wife and I never really got to any agreement as to exactly what we wanted it to do. There are a lot of permutations about different music or TV in different rooms but the need for one room to inter-act with another is pretty limited.
If people want to spend their money on this stuff it's fine by me - but I wouldn't.
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff