BMW B47 engine timing chain replacement interval
Discussion
I was about to buy either a 2013-2014 120d or 320d but have read that the N47 engine (that they both have) is prone to a pretty serious timing chain issue.
From 2015 onwards they both got the B47 engine, which seems to be much improved in that respect as far as I can tell. But can anybody tell me when the timing chain is likely to need changing on one of those?
It seems to be classed a non-servicable item and as such has been crammed right at the back of the engine, meaning a bill of about £1k to change it. But from what I've been reading I can't tell if it's ever likely to need changing before silly miles (e.g. 120k+). I did see a "90k miles or 9 years" figure quoted by someone, but they were talking about the N47 so presumably the interval for the B47 is significantly longer?
From 2015 onwards they both got the B47 engine, which seems to be much improved in that respect as far as I can tell. But can anybody tell me when the timing chain is likely to need changing on one of those?
It seems to be classed a non-servicable item and as such has been crammed right at the back of the engine, meaning a bill of about £1k to change it. But from what I've been reading I can't tell if it's ever likely to need changing before silly miles (e.g. 120k+). I did see a "90k miles or 9 years" figure quoted by someone, but they were talking about the N47 so presumably the interval for the B47 is significantly longer?
Dont have an interval, just service the car every 10,000 miles with correct spec oil and carry on, like every other cam-chain vehicle - should be fine.
Ran N47 engines since 2008, with a combined mileage of 300,000 miles, never needed to replace the chain, I would be more worried about the turbo and other diesel issues...2008, and 2012 engined cars respectively
I wouldn't be changing the chain at 90k, if anything if the vehicle is correctly serviced (with proper interval oil changes) I would be aiming for 200,000 miles before I even thought about it.
Ran N47 engines since 2008, with a combined mileage of 300,000 miles, never needed to replace the chain, I would be more worried about the turbo and other diesel issues...2008, and 2012 engined cars respectively
I wouldn't be changing the chain at 90k, if anything if the vehicle is correctly serviced (with proper interval oil changes) I would be aiming for 200,000 miles before I even thought about it.
Edited by 757 on Monday 28th February 08:30
My family have had no issues with N47 , but only in 2011 on guise I.E a 2011 520d , 2013 320d. On the contrary , everyone I know that has owned a 2007-2010 n47 has had issues with the chain!
It’s a shame as all the cheap BMWs have this engine.
I was acutely aware of the chain issues but I believed most of the chain issue to be phased out with revised parts. There is still the odd failure like in many cars. If I remember rightly the engine codes have another letter in them to indicate the revised part.
We always change(d) the oil every year though just in case. I would not be put off with buying a 2011ish inwards 3 or 5 series.
It’s a shame as all the cheap BMWs have this engine.
I was acutely aware of the chain issues but I believed most of the chain issue to be phased out with revised parts. There is still the odd failure like in many cars. If I remember rightly the engine codes have another letter in them to indicate the revised part.
We always change(d) the oil every year though just in case. I would not be put off with buying a 2011ish inwards 3 or 5 series.
I always thought that timing chains were more reliable than belts and "never needed replacing" and it was just the manufacturers making mistakes/dodgy suppliers.
Something I was watching the other day however made me rethink this. Essentially the issue is carbon. Both diesels and direct injection petrols suffer from lots of carbon in the oil and that is pretty much harmless to all the engine. Except one part. The timing chain. The timing chains after all don't actually stretch, they *wear*.
I have to also wonder here if the extended service intervals really don't help matters either.
Something I was watching the other day however made me rethink this. Essentially the issue is carbon. Both diesels and direct injection petrols suffer from lots of carbon in the oil and that is pretty much harmless to all the engine. Except one part. The timing chain. The timing chains after all don't actually stretch, they *wear*.
I have to also wonder here if the extended service intervals really don't help matters either.
Fastdruid said:
I have to also wonder here if the extended service intervals really don't help matters either.
It's pretty common knowledge now long service intervals, have a detrimental affect on timing chains, and also Turbo's which is using the same old battered/25,000 miles interval oils.Change every 10,000 miles and should be fine, many manufacturers have reduced their intervals now to more normal levels, due the amount of issues they were seeing, Mazda for one have done this, so it's a mass issue, not just a BMW one.
757 said:
Fastdruid said:
I have to also wonder here if the extended service intervals really don't help matters either.
It's pretty common knowledge now long service intervals, have a detrimental affect on timing chains, and also Turbo's which is using the same old battered/25,000 miles interval oils.Change every 10,000 miles and should be fine, many manufacturers have reduced their intervals now to more normal levels, due the amount of issues they were seeing, Mazda for one have done this, so it's a mass issue, not just a BMW one.
Quite surprising how many people just don't look after their cars.
My mate who is my mechanic often shows me what he's got in when I pop in for a coffee, and lots of cars are in due to being mistreated, with completely avoidable repairs.
And long service intervals are a big one, the amount of cars that he said he sees with completely collapsed oil filters for example (due to just not being changed) and oil that comes out like tar, then the owner complains about how their car is running crap and rattling and then breaking down with £££'s of repairs.
One memorable car was a Corsa (cam chain) he actually asked me to put my coffee down and we had to physically chisel out the oil filter it was completely collapsed and stuck, yep that car was in for a snapped chain at 50k!! Bonkers!
His words "just change the bloody oil, doesn't matter what oil brand, just change it, along with a bloody £10 oil filter!!"
Off topic now a little, but quite alarming.
My mate who is my mechanic often shows me what he's got in when I pop in for a coffee, and lots of cars are in due to being mistreated, with completely avoidable repairs.
And long service intervals are a big one, the amount of cars that he said he sees with completely collapsed oil filters for example (due to just not being changed) and oil that comes out like tar, then the owner complains about how their car is running crap and rattling and then breaking down with £££'s of repairs.
One memorable car was a Corsa (cam chain) he actually asked me to put my coffee down and we had to physically chisel out the oil filter it was completely collapsed and stuck, yep that car was in for a snapped chain at 50k!! Bonkers!
His words "just change the bloody oil, doesn't matter what oil brand, just change it, along with a bloody £10 oil filter!!"
Off topic now a little, but quite alarming.
bungz said:
If you only do one thing to any car change the oil and filter twice as often as the book says.
The rise of these yearly service intervals which are no more than a fluid level check are criminal also, lull people into thinking they have had a "service".
Won’t be long before someone says how the manufacturer’s service schedule is based on what’s best for your car and leaving oil in until it’s like black water or gooey sludge is ok !!The rise of these yearly service intervals which are no more than a fluid level check are criminal also, lull people into thinking they have had a "service".
And service intervals aren’t anything to do with a race to show who’s car is cheapest to run until it’s out of warranty!!
Later n47’s are not so bad for snapping chains.
Also b47’s are a very similar engine to the n47 and all the timing gear (chains, guides and sprockets) are exactly the same as what you would buy for an n47 - identical part numbers
I don’t know if they are any less likely to snapping chains on the b47’s or they have just managed to avoid the n47 reputation from the early failures they used to have
Also b47’s are a very similar engine to the n47 and all the timing gear (chains, guides and sprockets) are exactly the same as what you would buy for an n47 - identical part numbers
I don’t know if they are any less likely to snapping chains on the b47’s or they have just managed to avoid the n47 reputation from the early failures they used to have
I've seen two N47 catastrophes this week, a 2013 Mini with 80k which was on the brink of a chain break, and a 2014 2 Series Active Zafira on 68k whose chain failure has destroyed the engine.
2014 is about as late as these get. Ignore anyone who says 'they are ok after 2011' etc etc. They most certainly are not!
2014 is about as late as these get. Ignore anyone who says 'they are ok after 2011' etc etc. They most certainly are not!
Touring442 said:
I've seen two N47 catastrophes this week, a 2013 Mini with 80k which was on the brink of a chain break, and a 2014 2 Series Active Zafira on 68k whose chain failure has destroyed the engine.
2014 is about as late as these get. Ignore anyone who says 'they are ok after 2011' etc etc. They most certainly are not!
Do you know what the oil change intervals on these was?2014 is about as late as these get. Ignore anyone who says 'they are ok after 2011' etc etc. They most certainly are not!
joropug said:
My family have had no issues with N47 , but only in 2011 on guise I.E a 2011 520d , 2013 320d. On the contrary , everyone I know that has owned a 2007-2010 n47 has had issues with the chain!
It’s a shame as all the cheap BMWs have this engine.
I was acutely aware of the chain issues but I believed most of the chain issue to be phased out with revised parts. There is still the odd failure like in many cars. If I remember rightly the engine codes have another letter in them to indicate the revised part.
We always change(d) the oil every year though just in case. I would not be put off with buying a 2011ish inwards 3 or 5 series.
I will just eat my words a bit…. My dads went in for a service and they advised the chain is a little noisy at mid rpm and that it may need attention in a year or so. Could be them being over cautious mind, sounds fine to meIt’s a shame as all the cheap BMWs have this engine.
I was acutely aware of the chain issues but I believed most of the chain issue to be phased out with revised parts. There is still the odd failure like in many cars. If I remember rightly the engine codes have another letter in them to indicate the revised part.
We always change(d) the oil every year though just in case. I would not be put off with buying a 2011ish inwards 3 or 5 series.
t itself on a regular basis. Touring442 said:
I've seen two N47 catastrophes this week, a 2013 Mini with 80k which was on the brink of a chain break, and a 2014 2 Series Active Zafira on 68k whose chain failure has destroyed the engine.
2014 is about as late as these get. Ignore anyone who says 'they are ok after 2011' etc etc. They most certainly are not!
What's your experience with B47s? As someone said above, they seem to share all of the timing chain-related parts yet somehow they're supposed to be much less prone to the issues of the N47.2014 is about as late as these get. Ignore anyone who says 'they are ok after 2011' etc etc. They most certainly are not!
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