Vibration is a driving me crazy

[markizok]

My 20 year old x5 has been solid as a rock until I started to get an odd vibration at 60mph plus. Did the usual thing of balancing the wheel, tracking, new tyres, new suspension parts etc but with no luck.

Both garages i have tried are at a loss, and I’m now at a point where I might just start picking at jobs and hoping for the best which is crazy…..

Over the past week I’ve been down every internet wormhole and there are so many suggestions from axel, breaks, rotors, drive shafts, spark plugs, buckled alloy etc, and I am really at a loss. Has anyone else had a similar challenge?

Btw, I did notice tonight that it also seems to judder when going up steep hills when under load - I say “seem” as who knows if I’m just hypersensitive to everything….

If it helps it’s the 4.4i e53 auto.

Hoping someone can help save my sanity…. I do a lot of motorway miles and it’s just not sustainable!

[LunarOne]

Does the vibration vary with road speed or engine speed or neither? That'll be a big clue. A way to test this is to wait until you feel the vibration, and then while driving at a constant speed, shift into a different gear using the gear stick. The road speed will stay the same but the engine and some of the transmission speed will change. If the vibration goes away, then it's engine or possibly transmission. If the vibration stays the same, it could be the diffs, drive shafts, brakes, wheels, wheel bearings, tyres, alignment or even just the road! I take it you've had a full alignment done and there's no excessive play in the suspension and the wheel bearings are all quiet? Also where do you feel the vibration? Is it in the steering wheel, the brake pedal, or through the seats?

[oakdale]

Sounds like it could be a propshaft u/j to me.

[bearman68]

oakdale said:

Sounds like it could be a propshaft u/j to me.

This

[naturalaspiration]

Where do you feel the judder?
- coming through the steering wheel or the seat base
- at steady speed or under acceleration
- any difference if turning (ever so slightly) left or right

[E-bmw]

naturalaspiration said:

Where do you feel the judder?
- coming through the steering wheel or the seat base
- at steady speed or under acceleration
- any difference if turning (ever so slightly) left or right

These need to be answered before we can do anything other than guess.

[markizok]

naturalaspiration said:

Where do you feel the judder?
- coming through the steering wheel or the seat base
- at steady speed or under acceleration
- any difference if turning (ever so slightly) left or right

Thanks to everyone, really appreciate your responses. To answer the questions, I have had 4 wheel alignment done as it wasn’t driving straight - this made a small improvement, as did new suspension arms. As for the points above:

- the steering wheel vibrates slightly, but my partner and children can feel it in the passenger seats and the rear seats, but doesn’t seem as noticeable. It’s hard to say what I feel, but it does feel like the whole car from the floor to seat.
- never noticed it getting worse or better when steering, but I mainly use the car for motorway journeys.
- both. It’s almost when you hit 60 it starts, deffo stronger when accelerating and decelerating, seems a little less when i lift off. What’s odd is the level of vibration can differ massively on the same road. No logic to me in if it’s when the car is warm or cold.

[markizok]

LunarOne said:

Does the vibration vary with road speed or engine speed or neither? That'll be a big clue. A way to test this is to wait until you feel the vibration, and then while driving at a constant speed, shift into a different gear using the gear stick. The road speed will stay the same but the engine and some of the transmission speed will change. If the vibration goes away, then it's engine or possibly transmission. If the vibration stays the same, it could be the diffs, drive shafts, brakes, wheels, wheel bearings, tyres, alignment or even just the road! I take it you've had a full alignment done and there's no excessive play in the suspension and the wheel bearings are all quiet? Also where do you feel the vibration? Is it in the steering wheel, the brake pedal, or through the seats?

Hi - thanks for this. The road speed / engine speed is an interesting one. Being an auto id say road speed, but I would need to drive again to test that, but being an old auto I think it would just force itself to 5th gear at 60 anyway! 😉

Wheel bearings seem okay. There was a noise at very low speed, but that seemed to have gone post wheel alignment - would there be other symptoms other than noise?

Honestly all of the above. Once the vibration kicks in if I break it’s felt in the peddle and the car all the way down to maybe 20mph.

[bucksmanuk]

Sounds a bit like prop-shaft centre bearing to me
not too expensive to fix...
if its like my E38, the mastic stuff/insulating goo had almost disappeared...

[markizok]

bucksmanuk said:

Sounds a bit like prop-shaft centre bearing to me
not too expensive to fix...
if its like my E38, the mastic stuff/insulating goo had almost disappeared...

If that is the case how easy is it to spot without taking the car apart? Seen some people mention the guibo as well but frankly it’s all another language to me 😉

[d_a_n1979]

markizok said:

bucksmanuk said:

Sounds a bit like prop-shaft centre bearing to me
not too expensive to fix...
if its like my E38, the mastic stuff/insulating goo had almost disappeared...

If that is the case how easy is it to spot without taking the car apart? Seen some people mention the guibo as well but frankly it’s all another language to me ??

You need to get underneath and view the prop shaft to see the UJ and the bearing

TBH both will need replacing simply through age; go for Febi Bilstein - get part numbers via RealOEM (pop the last 7 digits of your VIN into the box at the top of the page and that'll bring up your X5) and then order parts from either C3BMW or BMWmotormec - both tried & trusted resellers

The guibo is the prop shaft UJ or donut; it sits between the autobox and the beginning of the prop shaft. They split/crack around the bolt connections

The bearing is further backwards; that dries out with age and the mastic that holds it in place also fails etc

IF you've replaced all the susepnsion parts (have you replaced the inner tie rods & track rods ends also) and has ALL the suspension been throughly inspected for any play, at all? If so, then the guibo and bearing are the last parts of the puzzle I'd say

[markizok]

So, I’ve had rear subframe bushes replaced and N/S/F suspension arm as worn. The rest were checked and I was told seemed okay so haven’t been done yet - don’t want to throw money away if I don’t need to, but equally if some of the issues are hidden or can’t been seen via an inspection maybe I should?

[naturalaspiration]

I am not sure it has anything to do with the propshaft bearing as in that case I would expect major judder under hard acceleration especially when moving off from standstill. I would however check the tightness off the rear diff mount bolt just to be on a safe - the one that fixes it to the rear subframe - this was causing the mysterious wobble on my E66. Only slightly felt under acceleration.

But let's cover the basics and this time thoroughly: wheel and tyre balancing. It is crucial that you VISUALLY inspect each wheel/tyre combo as it is spinning on the balancing machine. Any, even the slightest deviation in geometry (bent wheel, tyre not sitting properly etc) may produce the judder. Machine itself can only feel weight imbalances. Also hubs/wheel mating surfaces must be clear off any dirt for the perfect fit.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

Could be drive shaft spline wear. Are the drive shaft gators split at all?

[bodhi]

I had a similar vibration on my 1 Series, could be felt through the car but not really through the steering wheel - turned out to be both rear calipers were sticking - worth a look?

[markizok]

bodhi said:

I had a similar vibration on my 1 Series, could be felt through the car but not really through the steering wheel - turned out to be both rear calipers were sticking - worth a look?

If it were the breaks is there a way to test when driving?

At this rate I’ll be turning up to the garage tomorrow with a list of jobs - mind you, they are getting paid for their time i guess!! 😉

[bodhi]

markizok said:

If it were the breaks is there a way to test when driving?

At this rate I’ll be turning up to the garage tomorrow with a list of jobs - mind you, they are getting paid for their time i guess!! ??

With mine it would only show up over 60 mph on the motorway, and as said the vibrations were through the seat and car rather than the steering wheel. Big give away for me was when I pulled over in some services after it had been acting up, rear wheels were hot to the touch.

[markizok]

Well I just did a 5 min run at 60-70, had vibrations but wheels not overly hot. Certainly nothing more than I’d expect with normal use…. Gutted!!!!

[d_a_n1979]

markizok said:

Well I just did a 5 min run at 60-70, had vibrations but wheels not overly hot. Certainly nothing more than I’d expect with normal use…. Gutted!!!!

That says to me its suspension

Look at my 730D build on these pages; this page in particular:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

The front arms were less than 4 months old (fitted before I bought the car); cheap crap was used but there was no play in them in situ & it passed an MOT without a hitch... But still had a clunk & slight vibration when braking from speed

Took them out and you can see how failed they were (look at the Google pics link)!

As said; ALL front arms, track rod ends and inner tie rods NEED to be inspected carefully and maybe removed; any slight play in them is amplified at the wheel

However, you also need to check that the front brake discs and hubs are thoroughly cleaned and free from any crap as again, this stops the brake discs from seating properly and vibrations will be amplified through the wheels/steering wheel & car itself!

[markizok]

Thanks for the link, very useful!!