'Conservatory' Concerns - How to Remedy / Insulate?
Discussion
Hi All,
We have a rectangular lean to type 'conservatory' to the rear of our house. It measures 2.9m deep by 5.6m wide, and spans 75% across the rear of the house. (Built before we purchased the house).
It is of pretty solid construction, in that there is not a single piece of polycarbonate in sight. It has a double thickness insulated brick wall to one side (towards neighbours), a dwarf wall across the main 'front' elevation with double glazed windows above (2 openable), then a mixture of windows and patio doors to the 'non-neighbour side'.
It's roof construction uses aluminium 'beams' spanning from front to back (100x40 in section), with a slight pitch (4 deg). In between said beams are 7No. double glazed glass roof panels (with solar film), which each measure 2.9m x 0.8m. It has no leaks, no condensation issues, no drafts or any issues like that.
The conservatory is permanently open (2.5m width) to the kitchen area and our 'main' dining table is located out there. Keeping the area 'open plan' is important to us, hence adding doors to separate from the house is not an option. However.....it has always suffered from the age old getting hot & cold out there, not massively, but just enough to be uncomfortable. Even though I installed a large double panel radiator out there, it cannot 'keep up' with the heat loss through the mass of glass when it is below around 5 degrees outside. We can flick on an additional 2kW electric radiator if necessary, but what with spiralling energy costs, I see this as neither financially viable or indeed sustainable. (The summer is just about bearable but also not ideal).
We have been here 7 years this year and I now want to 'sort this' area once and for all to make it usable all year round. Can anyone provide any advice or guidance on what we could do here, taking into account the very low pitch angle? (This cannot be changed). As a starter for ten, options as I can see at present are:
1) Low Cost/Effort (DIY) - Install high quality thermal blinds to the roof and windows & potentially increase 'wet' radiator size to cope with winter
2) Mid Cost/Effort (DIY) - Insulate and plasterboard within the 'gap' between the aluminium joists, potentially leaving an unsightly view from above/outside?
3) High Cost (Roof Firm In) - Replace with specialist conservatory roof system (for low pitches), including faux roof tiles, with integrated insulation etc.
4) Highest Cost (Builders in) - Completely remove existing roof, rebuild with timber joists and build up as a 'proper roof' construction - albeit one with a very shallow pitch (?)
Can anyone with experience with such a situation offer me any guidance at all? Ideally with an indication of costs they incurred, or things to consider? Especially what bits may trigger planning / building control involvement etc? Are there ways we can negate the loss of light we currently get flooded with?
Thanks in advance
We have a rectangular lean to type 'conservatory' to the rear of our house. It measures 2.9m deep by 5.6m wide, and spans 75% across the rear of the house. (Built before we purchased the house).
It is of pretty solid construction, in that there is not a single piece of polycarbonate in sight. It has a double thickness insulated brick wall to one side (towards neighbours), a dwarf wall across the main 'front' elevation with double glazed windows above (2 openable), then a mixture of windows and patio doors to the 'non-neighbour side'.
It's roof construction uses aluminium 'beams' spanning from front to back (100x40 in section), with a slight pitch (4 deg). In between said beams are 7No. double glazed glass roof panels (with solar film), which each measure 2.9m x 0.8m. It has no leaks, no condensation issues, no drafts or any issues like that.
The conservatory is permanently open (2.5m width) to the kitchen area and our 'main' dining table is located out there. Keeping the area 'open plan' is important to us, hence adding doors to separate from the house is not an option. However.....it has always suffered from the age old getting hot & cold out there, not massively, but just enough to be uncomfortable. Even though I installed a large double panel radiator out there, it cannot 'keep up' with the heat loss through the mass of glass when it is below around 5 degrees outside. We can flick on an additional 2kW electric radiator if necessary, but what with spiralling energy costs, I see this as neither financially viable or indeed sustainable. (The summer is just about bearable but also not ideal).
We have been here 7 years this year and I now want to 'sort this' area once and for all to make it usable all year round. Can anyone provide any advice or guidance on what we could do here, taking into account the very low pitch angle? (This cannot be changed). As a starter for ten, options as I can see at present are:
1) Low Cost/Effort (DIY) - Install high quality thermal blinds to the roof and windows & potentially increase 'wet' radiator size to cope with winter
2) Mid Cost/Effort (DIY) - Insulate and plasterboard within the 'gap' between the aluminium joists, potentially leaving an unsightly view from above/outside?
3) High Cost (Roof Firm In) - Replace with specialist conservatory roof system (for low pitches), including faux roof tiles, with integrated insulation etc.
4) Highest Cost (Builders in) - Completely remove existing roof, rebuild with timber joists and build up as a 'proper roof' construction - albeit one with a very shallow pitch (?)
Can anyone with experience with such a situation offer me any guidance at all? Ideally with an indication of costs they incurred, or things to consider? Especially what bits may trigger planning / building control involvement etc? Are there ways we can negate the loss of light we currently get flooded with?
Thanks in advance
Edited by MattyD803 on Monday 31st January 12:45
Whoever has removed the doors between your kitchen and the conservatory has already breached Building Regulations, so that's something you may have to deal with if you undertake further alterations (particularly Option 3, which would also need designing correctly, structurally).
Option 4 would be to install a proprietary lightweight insulated roof conversion - there's a whole industry built up to do just this - but depending on how scrupulous they are (most aren't even slightly) they might take issue with the Building Regs compliance considerations, too.
Option 5 would be to entirely rebuild the conservatory as a Building Regulations-compliant extensions, but this would be expensive and would likely involve substantially reducing the glazed area of the 'walls'.
Option 2 risks problems with 'interstitial condensation' (ie. condensation forming between your insulated plasterboard and the cold glass above it), particularly if the conservatory is linked to your kitchen (one of the highest humidity areas in the house).
Option 1 is likely to have fairly limited benefit, but I'm guessing you've realised that already.
Option 4 would be to install a proprietary lightweight insulated roof conversion - there's a whole industry built up to do just this - but depending on how scrupulous they are (most aren't even slightly) they might take issue with the Building Regs compliance considerations, too.
Option 5 would be to entirely rebuild the conservatory as a Building Regulations-compliant extensions, but this would be expensive and would likely involve substantially reducing the glazed area of the 'walls'.
Option 2 risks problems with 'interstitial condensation' (ie. condensation forming between your insulated plasterboard and the cold glass above it), particularly if the conservatory is linked to your kitchen (one of the highest humidity areas in the house).
Option 1 is likely to have fairly limited benefit, but I'm guessing you've realised that already.
I have the same issue, not done a huge amount of research as yet but I did look at building up and fitting a proper roof however my builder advised that the foundations will not be to the required standard, most conservatories with dwarf walls only have 35mm depth.
Not 100% sure what I am going to do as yet, might just refit the doors between the house and leave it be.
Not 100% sure what I am going to do as yet, might just refit the doors between the house and leave it be.
When we were looking at conservatory options, I think I found a firm that would replace some or all the roof panels with insulated ones so you had the best of both worlds.
IIRC there may be a company that makes insulated blinds which may help in winter to keep the cold out.
In some respects putting bi fold doors across May be there best answer although it doesn’t give you the open plan you like.
We have that with ours, closed doors in winter:and heat up when we need the bigger space and open them in summer to let the heat disperse into the house.
We do have roof blinds although not insulated ones as IIRC they were pricey.
IIRC there may be a company that makes insulated blinds which may help in winter to keep the cold out.
In some respects putting bi fold doors across May be there best answer although it doesn’t give you the open plan you like.
We have that with ours, closed doors in winter:and heat up when we need the bigger space and open them in summer to let the heat disperse into the house.
We do have roof blinds although not insulated ones as IIRC they were pricey.
We are getting similar sized lean to built currently, and agree with Equus comment regarding Building Regs. You would really want to get this sorted to avoid issues, especially with your home insurance.
edit: don't discount glass roofs with good u value (<1). depending if your garden is south facing etc this would give more light and still usable for most of the year. Cheaper too
edit: don't discount glass roofs with good u value (<1). depending if your garden is south facing etc this would give more light and still usable for most of the year. Cheaper too
Edited by anxious_ant on Monday 31st January 13:54
Equus said:
Whoever has removed the doors between your kitchen and the conservatory has already breached Building Regulations, so that's something you may have to deal with if you undertake further alterations (particularly Option 3, which would also need designing correctly, structurally).
Option 4 would be to install a proprietary lightweight insulated roof conversion - there's a whole industry built up to do just this - but depending on how scrupulous they are (most aren't even slightly) they might take issue with the Building Regs compliance considerations, too.
Option 5 would be to entirely rebuild the conservatory as a Building Regulations-compliant extensions, but this would be expensive and would likely involve substantially reducing the glazed area of the 'walls'.
Option 2 risks problems with 'interstitial condensation' (ie. condensation forming between your insulated plasterboard and the cold glass above it), particularly if the conservatory is linked to your kitchen (one of the highest humidity areas in the house).
Option 1 is likely to have fairly limited benefit, but I'm guessing you've realised that already.
Thanks for taking the time Equus.Option 4 would be to install a proprietary lightweight insulated roof conversion - there's a whole industry built up to do just this - but depending on how scrupulous they are (most aren't even slightly) they might take issue with the Building Regs compliance considerations, too.
Option 5 would be to entirely rebuild the conservatory as a Building Regulations-compliant extensions, but this would be expensive and would likely involve substantially reducing the glazed area of the 'walls'.
Option 2 risks problems with 'interstitial condensation' (ie. condensation forming between your insulated plasterboard and the cold glass above it), particularly if the conservatory is linked to your kitchen (one of the highest humidity areas in the house).
Option 1 is likely to have fairly limited benefit, but I'm guessing you've realised that already.
Yes, the door removal is noted/understood as a legacy Building Regs issue, although as mentioned, for us, there isn't the slightest chance we would (want) to reinstate that. I believe that me adding the radiator was also a bit naughty? However, from a structural perspective, the opening is located where the original rear patio doors (and side panels) were previously installed, hence the construction, I believe to be structurally sound. (I believe their to be a Catnic type lintel in there).
I would say that in terms of the benefit offered (when considering the disruption and cost), Option 5 is probably not a go-er for us. Is your Option 4, effectively the same as my Option 3? Either way, I think it would be worth me looking at getting quotes for Option 3/4, but based on the way the world is just now, I just know it's going to be eye watering....but whilst I am 'fairly' handy at DIY, I fully appreciate that would be out of my league, which I assume would also need 'sign off'.
Does anyone have any 'likely' costs for a specialist lightweight roof conversion by such a company?
With regards to Option 2 (filling the gap), I was thinking I could firstly apply a tint like film to the underside of the glass (to help with the external aesthetics), then Install Kingspan type insulation within the space between the aluminium joists, say 75mm, leaving a 25mm air gap between the top of the insulation and the underside of the glass for circulation, then insulated plasterboard to the underside of the joists? With an air gap at each end, would this prevent the interstitial problem here? Or would it actually be better to fill the void entirely with insulation, fully taped and sealed, perhaps adding a continuous membrane across the entire underside of the insulation and joists, finishing with moisture resistant PB beneath?
I know a couple of structural engineers, who I would like to think will run some calcs based on the additional weight this would impose on both the joist and then in particular, the transfer onto the house/catnic lintel.
Thanks again for any further suggestions / recommendations.....
dundarach said:
Our conservatory is quite large and was unusable for most of the year (hot or cold)
We had a roof fitted two years ago, it's brilliant, but not cheap!
Ours was around £25k ish...
Wow - very impressive. I assume that was a whole new roof structure?We had a roof fitted two years ago, it's brilliant, but not cheap!
Ours was around £25k ish...
In my case I would be loathed to rip out the aluminium joists in all fairness, it would seem such a waste....as would the extant glass to be brutally honest. Ideally I would like to 'enhance', rather than replace if I can.....
With reference to cost....ours is obviously much smaller and lets say it cost £20k.....there is no way I would get that back on sale of the house. (It is not a forever home to be brutally honest so certainly a consideration for us).
Boringvolvodriver said:
When we were looking at conservatory options, I think I found a firm that would replace some or all the roof panels with insulated ones so you had the best of both worlds.
IIRC there may be a company that makes insulated blinds which may help in winter to keep the cold out.
In some respects putting bi fold doors across May be there best answer although it doesn’t give you the open plan you like.
We have that with ours, closed doors in winter:and heat up when we need the bigger space and open them in summer to let the heat disperse into the house.
We do have roof blinds although not insulated ones as IIRC they were pricey.
I do wonder if a 'hybrid' option could be replacement of say 4 of the 7 panels on a hit and miss basis with insulated panels......then thermal blinds on the remaining 3, such that we can keep the light, yet reduce hopefully 50-60% of the heat loss through the roof. However, I do wonder just what insulation value can be had from a panel which is the same thickness a double glazed piece of glass....?IIRC there may be a company that makes insulated blinds which may help in winter to keep the cold out.
In some respects putting bi fold doors across May be there best answer although it doesn’t give you the open plan you like.
We have that with ours, closed doors in winter:and heat up when we need the bigger space and open them in summer to let the heat disperse into the house.
We do have roof blinds although not insulated ones as IIRC they were pricey.
MattyD803 said:
With reference to cost....ours is obviously much smaller and lets say it cost £20k.....there is no way I would get that back on sale of the house. (It is not a forever home to be brutally honest so certainly a consideration for us).
This is my main issue, I need to make it more usable but £14k would never be worth it as you said I doubt you will see the money back if you needed to sell up.anxious_ant said:
We are getting similar sized lean to built currently, and agree with Equus comment regarding Building Regs. You would really want to get this sorted to avoid issues, especially with your home insurance.
edit: don't discount glass roofs with good u value (<1). depending if your garden is south facing etc this would give more light and still usable for most of the year. Cheaper too
Building regulations - noted, although no integrity or safety implications from what I can see, hence it is not top of the list just now. (From insurance perspective, I have the original build/sign off certs for the conservatory and nothing was picked up when we bought the house, so I think I am 'safe' from an ignorant / naïve point of view)edit: don't discount glass roofs with good u value (<1). depending if your garden is south facing etc this would give more light and still usable for most of the year. Cheaper too
Better performing glass - certainly hadn't thought of that......will do some research. I think I might have the spec of the existing glass somewhere in the 'folder'....
Edited by MattyD803 on Monday 31st January 14:17
waynecyclist said:
This is my main issue, I need to make it more usable but £14k would never be worth it as you said I doubt you will see the money back if you needed to sell up.
This is the balance I am trying to strike. Many people (particularly neighbours with the same style house) are really 'impressed' with the light and airy layout between the kitchen and dining room (conservatory) and I wouldn't want to lose that in lieu of an expensive fully insulated roof, which may in fact make the area appear gloomier and thus potentially detract from it's appear / reduce house value.....there must be happy medium....somewhere?MattyD803 said:
dundarach said:
Our conservatory is quite large and was unusable for most of the year (hot or cold)
We had a roof fitted two years ago, it's brilliant, but not cheap!
Ours was around £25k ish...
Wow - very impressive. I assume that was a whole new roof structure?We had a roof fitted two years ago, it's brilliant, but not cheap!
Ours was around £25k ish...
In my case I would be loathed to rip out the aluminium joists in all fairness, it would seem such a waste....as would the extant glass to be brutally honest. Ideally I would like to 'enhance', rather than replace if I can.....
With reference to cost....ours is obviously much smaller and lets say it cost £20k.....there is no way I would get that back on sale of the house. (It is not a forever home to be brutally honest so certainly a consideration for us).
This included a metal roof, windows and lighting too.
If you have the structure fill it with kingspan, they just cut and stuffed it in then fixed it with some clips and screws. Trouble with the top is that unless you replace the see through top, it'll look nasty from above.
dundarach said:
It was yes, then two levels of kingspan and plastering.
This included a metal roof, windows and lighting too.
If you have the structure fill it with kingspan, they just cut and stuffed it in then fixed it with some clips and screws. Trouble with the top is that unless you replace the see through top, it'll look nasty from above.
Many thanks. So what type of 'roof finish' do you have from the outside? This included a metal roof, windows and lighting too.
If you have the structure fill it with kingspan, they just cut and stuffed it in then fixed it with some clips and screws. Trouble with the top is that unless you replace the see through top, it'll look nasty from above.
Yes, absolutely. Regarding aesthetics, if I go down the route of Option 2, I was thinking that I would have a film applied to the underside of the glass, possibly white or grey, to obscure the insulation sat beneath.....I guess it would make a lot of sense to go 'reflective' for the purpose of thermal control, but this would also look awful.....
MattyD803 said:
waynecyclist said:
I have had quotes from £8900 to £14k just for a lightweight roof replacement.
Thanks Wayne. Did you say that is roughly the same dimensions as ours? And what part of the country may I ask?
That squares with the figures I've seen: one of my colleagues has just has hers done for (from memory) about £9K, in South Wales (so probably cheaper end of what you'll pay, geographically).MattyD803 said:
Many thanks. So what type of 'roof finish' do you have from the outside?
Yes, absolutely. Regarding aesthetics, if I go down the route of Option 2, I was thinking that I would have a film applied to the underside of the glass, possibly white or grey, to obscure the insulation sat beneath.....I guess it would make a lot of sense to go 'reflective' for the purpose of thermal control, but this would also look awful.....
Just leaned out of daughters window for you Yes, absolutely. Regarding aesthetics, if I go down the route of Option 2, I was thinking that I would have a film applied to the underside of the glass, possibly white or grey, to obscure the insulation sat beneath.....I guess it would make a lot of sense to go 'reflective' for the purpose of thermal control, but this would also look awful.....
And this is the kingspan detailing
Equus said:
MattyD803 said:
waynecyclist said:
I have had quotes from £8900 to £14k just for a lightweight roof replacement.
Thanks Wayne. Did you say that is roughly the same dimensions as ours? And what part of the country may I ask? That squares with the figures I've seen: one of my colleagues has just has hers done for (from memory) about £9K, in South Wales (so probably cheaper end of what you'll pay, geographically).Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff